Law School advice - a true dilemma

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decrumpi
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Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby decrumpi » Sun May 30, 2010 8:57 pm

Hello all!

Just a little background on me -

3.95 GPA - 155 LSAT (classic splitter)
very strong softs

All applications

SUNY Buffalo - accepted
George Marshall Chicago - accepted with scholarship
Hofstra - waitlisted
Case Western Reserve - no word yet but quite hopeful


My question to you all is this - of the schools on the top list, should I even consider going to John Marshall? They are tier 2 but their bar passage and salaries are well above Buffalo. Also, if I get accepted at Case, should I go there and not look back? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

imisscollege
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby imisscollege » Sun May 30, 2010 9:02 pm

you've probably heard this before but take an entire year and learn how to take the god damn lsat. you graduated with a very good gpa--you couldn't be that stupid. the schools you mentioned are not worth attending

06072010
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby 06072010 » Sun May 30, 2010 9:04 pm

decrumpi wrote:Hello all!

Just a little background on me -

3.95 GPA - 155 LSAT (classic splitter)
very strong softs

All applications

SUNY Buffalo - accepted
George Marshall Chicago - accepted with scholarship
Hofstra - waitlisted
Case Western Reserve - no word yet but quite hopeful


My question to you all is this - of the schools on the top list, should I even consider going to John Marshall? They are tier 2 but their bar passage and salaries are well above Buffalo. Also, if I get accepted at Case, should I go there and not look back? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!


FWIW, a classic splitter is one who is has a high LSAT and low GPA. More to the point: is a retake an option?

Bankhead
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby Bankhead » Sun May 30, 2010 9:37 pm

What is it about the LSAT that didn't happen for you?

I also know someone with a 3.9 156 who got into a T25. So even as it stands, the cycle/your school application choices didn't work out so well either.

And how big is the scholarship from Marshall?

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A'nold
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby A'nold » Sun May 30, 2010 9:40 pm

John Marshall is not a t2.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby vanwinkle » Sun May 30, 2010 9:42 pm

Retake and reapply.

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A'nold
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby A'nold » Sun May 30, 2010 9:43 pm

Also: you will RARELY hear me give this advice b/c everyone has their own reasons for things but RETAKE THE LSAT. It would be a horrible mistake to waste that GPA. If you even bump that LSAT up to a 160, you will have many t1 options.

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MusicNutMeggie
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby MusicNutMeggie » Sun May 30, 2010 9:47 pm

OP- Just to check, that IS your LSAC GPA, right? That 3.95 doesn't include any "freshman forgiveness" or course replacements or anything? If so, it barely matters from what school you graduated, and it's your LSAT that's holding you back. Please, please, please retake the test. Invest a few hundred (or even a couple thousand) dollars and take a prep course, or at the very, very least, study on your own. A boost of even five points will open up a whole new world of possibilities for you in the next cycle, and ITE, you really want a T1 school.

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bk1
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby bk1 » Sun May 30, 2010 10:04 pm

vanwinkle wrote:Retake and reapply.

decrumpi
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby decrumpi » Sun May 30, 2010 10:24 pm

Holy crap that opinion seems unanimous.

I'm at a loss for words.

OP- Just to check, that IS your LSAC GPA, right? That 3.95 doesn't include any "freshman forgiveness" or course replacements or anything? If so, it barely matters from what school you graduated, and it's your LSAT that's holding you back. Please, please, please retake the test. Invest a few hundred (or even a couple thousand) dollars and take a prep course, or at the very, very least, study on your own. A boost of even five points will open up a whole new world of possibilities for you in the next cycle, and ITE, you really want a T1 school.


I am a foreign student (American, but graduated from an American University abroad), and the 3.95 is my LSAC - I was in the top 1% of my class and I did spend some time studying the LSAT - funny thing is I gave that test a good run. I only took it once and spent one summer studying, but if it is as you say it is, I will reconsider.

Oh, and John Marshall is not II tier - I didn't mean of the top 100. There is a second list of unranked schools and JM was in there.

I got 24K at JM - 8K per year. But if I read you people correctly, you probably liken that acceptance and subsequent scholarship to a sequin-encrusted piece of shit.

06072010
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby 06072010 » Sun May 30, 2010 10:30 pm

What study methods did you use? Did you try any of the methods listed here? Some pretty solid advice here. LSAT is just as much about study method as it is effort.

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bk1
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby bk1 » Sun May 30, 2010 10:42 pm

Considering the way you phrase your LSAT study, the retake/reapply advice seems even more solid considering you probably can get a much better score. Had you maxed yourself out and studied as well as you possibly could, taking every practice test, then retake/reapply might not have been the best advice. However it seems like your LSAT study could be better and thus retake/reapply seems like the right call.

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thesealocust
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby thesealocust » Sun May 30, 2010 10:47 pm

tl;dr
Last edited by thesealocust on Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

decrumpi
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby decrumpi » Sun May 30, 2010 10:51 pm

What study methods did you use? Did you try any of the methods listed here? Some pretty solid advice here. LSAT is just as much about study method as it is effort.


Studied on my own, although I took a whole summer to do it.

I've been told that a retake usually results in like 1-2 points higher (or lower! :oops: ) It doesn't seem worth it because I wasn't told to take the test again (I read a lot about the LSAT and I'm not the type to get super stressed and depressed about test scores) so its better to live with it.

I also had to deal with abusive parents and bouts of terrible mental illness (not going to write about that shit on the apps though - overcoming a physical disability is a good thing but I was told to steer clear of practically having my shrink write my supplements) so I'm more likely to sell myself short. Having had therapy, however, I've learned that there is a very soothing peace that comes about when you just resolve to live with it, and even being a big fish in a small pond is a good thing. When I got my letter from John Marshall, I was overjoyed!

So yeah enough of my sob story. What would you do if you were in my position and retake wasn't an option?

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thesealocust
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby thesealocust » Sun May 30, 2010 10:54 pm

tl;dr
Last edited by thesealocust on Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cardnal124
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby cardnal124 » Sun May 30, 2010 11:01 pm

decrumpi wrote:
What study methods did you use? Did you try any of the methods listed here? Some pretty solid advice here. LSAT is just as much about study method as it is effort.


Studied on my own, although I took a whole summer to do it.

I've been told that a retake usually results in like 1-2 points higher (or lower! :oops: ) It doesn't seem worth it because I wasn't told to take the test again (I read a lot about the LSAT and I'm not the type to get super stressed and depressed about test scores) so its better to live with it.


Really depends what your study methods by yourself were. Studying the bibles 4-6 hours a day all summer with a PT every week is different than reading over a general Kaplan study aid for 4-6 hours a week all summer with only a few PTs.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby vanwinkle » Sun May 30, 2010 11:02 pm

decrumpi wrote:I've been told that a retake usually results in like 1-2 points higher (or lower! :oops: ) It doesn't seem worth it because I wasn't told to take the test again (I read a lot about the LSAT and I'm not the type to get super stressed and depressed about test scores) so its better to live with it.

I also had to deal with abusive parents and bouts of terrible mental illness (not going to write about that shit on the apps though - overcoming a physical disability is a good thing but I was told to steer clear of practically having my shrink write my supplements) so I'm more likely to sell myself short. Having had therapy, however, I've learned that there is a very soothing peace that comes about when you just resolve to live with it, and even being a big fish in a small pond is a good thing. When I got my letter from John Marshall, I was overjoyed!

So yeah enough of my sob story. What would you do if you were in my position and retake wasn't an option?

If you study properly and long enough, you can make a 10 point improvement or higher.

Also, I will say I understand re: family abuse and illness. However, please don't use those negative experiences as justification to settle for something you shouldn't have to. There are times when you should indeed resolve to live with it, but this is not one of those times; this is one of those rare times when you really can take control and make a vast improvement in your life through a few months' hard work.

The difference will affect the next 40 years of your life. Going to a better law school will mean having much better job options when you graduate, which will lead not just things like more money but also things like more happiness since it increases the odds of you finding work you enjoy.

I do not mean to diminish the joy from knowing you can get into law school. However, it does need to be tempered with the knowledge that you can get into much better law schools, and you can greatly improve your life by working to that end instead of just settling for what you have now.

You seriously need to retake and reapply. Work as hard as you can on improving your LSAT score. Only once you know you've reached your full potential there, should you be settling for what schools take you.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun May 30, 2010 11:06 pm

decrumpi wrote:
What study methods did you use? Did you try any of the methods listed here? Some pretty solid advice here. LSAT is just as much about study method as it is effort.


Studied on my own, although I took a whole summer to do it.

I've been told that a retake usually results in like 1-2 points higher (or lower! :oops: ) It doesn't seem worth it because I wasn't told to take the test again (I read a lot about the LSAT and I'm not the type to get super stressed and depressed about test scores) so its better to live with it.

I also had to deal with abusive parents and bouts of terrible mental illness (not going to write about that shit on the apps though - overcoming a physical disability is a good thing but I was told to steer clear of practically having my shrink write my supplements) so I'm more likely to sell myself short. Having had therapy, however, I've learned that there is a very soothing peace that comes about when you just resolve to live with it, and even being a big fish in a small pond is a good thing. When I got my letter from John Marshall, I was overjoyed!

So yeah enough of my sob story. What would you do if you were in my position and retake wasn't an option?


If you devote significant study time to preparing you will improve more than 1-2 points unless you just freak out test day. If you don't study at all and just retake it, then yeah you probably won't improve that much, if at all. And how are you referring to when you say you weren't told to take the test again? I would say the the prospects at a T-30 or T-14 are most definitely worth, and a couple of points could translate into thousands of dollars in scholarship money.

Do yourself a favor and retake in October. Start studying now, buy the powerscore bibles, enroll in a prep class if you need the extra motivation/structure, and treat studying as much as a full time job as possible. In terms of scholarship money and increased career opportunity, the hundreds of hours studying could translate into the most beneficial job you've had so far in life.

imisscollege
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby imisscollege » Sun May 30, 2010 11:19 pm

could this be a flame?

decrumpi
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby decrumpi » Sun May 30, 2010 11:22 pm

If you devote significant study time to preparing you will improve more than 1-2 points unless you just freak out test day. If you don't study at all and just retake it, then yeah you probably won't improve that much, if at all. And how are you referring to when you say you weren't told to take the test again? I would say the the prospects at a T-30 or T-14 are most definitely worth, and a couple of points could translate into thousands of dollars in scholarship money.

Do yourself a favor and retake in October. Start studying now, buy the powerscore bibles, enroll in a prep class if you need the extra motivation/structure, and treat studying as much as a full time job as possible. In terms of scholarship money and increased career opportunity, the hundreds of hours studying could translate into the most beneficial job you've had so far in life.


I've seen things like this in life. Your voices are unanimous, and I'm not so stupid as to not follow your advice. I will retake, and get some LSAT study books and enroll in a class.

Thanks for all your replies, just one more thought I wonder about - is transferring a viable option?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun May 30, 2010 11:30 pm

decrumpi wrote:Thanks for all your replies, just one more thought I wonder about - is transferring a viable option?


No it's not. Don't attend a school unless you would be happy to graduate from said school.

imisscollege wrote:could this be a flame?


Starting to smell that way. In any case, if it is it is actually a pretty subtle and helpful one. He's providing a good example for all the other reverse-splitters out there!

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby Kilpatrick » Sun May 30, 2010 11:31 pm

I'll add to the chorus of people telling you to retake. There is no real dilemma here.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby Sauer Grapes » Sun May 30, 2010 11:34 pm

....
Last edited by Sauer Grapes on Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: Law School advice - a true dilemma

Postby bk1 » Sun May 30, 2010 11:35 pm

decrumpi wrote:I've seen things like this in life. Your voices are unanimous, and I'm not so stupid as to not follow your advice. I will retake, and get some LSAT study books and enroll in a class.

Thanks for all your replies, just one more thought I wonder about - is transferring a viable option?


It is possible to transfer, but it is unlikely (i.e. needing to be something like the top 5% or better to transfer from T4 to the T14). On top of that, transfers "lose" their 1L grades and thus get treated as if they are median at the school they get into (which, ITE, is not always a strong position to be in even at top schools).

Since it is much easier to predictably increase your LSAT score than it is to predict your 1L grades, the conventional wisdom is that retaking/reapplying is much stronger than transferring because it allows you a much stronger chance of getting into a school you want to go to. Your GPA is skyhigh, and it seems like you could get a much better LSAT score, retaking/reapplying is going to give you a better shot than transferring.




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