Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

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Foosters Galore
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Foosters Galore » Wed May 26, 2010 9:41 pm

lostjake wrote:
Foosters Galore wrote:
lostjake wrote:
Foosters Galore wrote:Has anyone considered that everyone has a different motivation for selecting an educational or career path? I just dont understand some of these views here on TLS. Ive seen liberal arts degrees incessantly vilified because of their lack of potential earning power. Ive seen people told to flat out withdraw from the T2 where they're paying sticker because they're destined to be calling the parents' basement home. Ive seen people told to remain in the their current profession (even though they have a pronounced hatred for it) because after doing the math, someone has figured out they will save 2,111.87 over the next 43 years by forgoing law school.

What is wrong with you people? I must have missed the header at the top of the applications that stated money is the sole reason for coming to our school. Passion for law? Interest in serving the community? Lifelong dream of working in a niche only accessible via a JD? Pssshhh. You gotta be kidding me. Such people don't exist. And if one is brave enough to crawl out of the woodwork here on TLS he is told to retake, try again next year. I understand expectations tempered by reality, but it has become ridiculous. I'm a splitter and was told "wait till next year", "don't go to any of the lower T2s I applied to", and "apply to WUSL, Northwestern, etc., next year." Never mind that I have a committed interest in working in Southern California, "I would be foolish to pay sticker at a place like Pepperdine or USD". So instead, I guess I'll avoid the discomfort of a substantial loan payments to abandon a career path that I though would be fulfilling; so that I may remain in a field I dislike so I can go home after my soul crushing job and think, "man, I really fucking hate my job, but at least Ive got this extra money saved up." Yes, I realize there are ways out of disagreeable careers other than law school. It just seems too often we look at this decision solely in a "cost vs. potential income" fashion. We fail to consider the myriad factors that may drive someone into law.

You want advice on how to gently break it to your friend that in your opinion (an opinion void of any actual experience) he/she is ruining his/her life? Simply email him/her the WSJ article about the poor guy from NU. If she goes chicken little as effortlessly as most around here, she'll make the right call on her own.

end rant.


FWIW I think you should go either go to a T14 or go somewhere free, whether that be a TTT TTT or T1. So really suspect that is going to a TTTT might be better off than the OP, both of whom should think really hard about going. 2nd, you complain about people knocking liberal arts degrees, and then you go on to say that you dislike your soul crushing job. No connection there? For some reason our generation seems to think that more education means more earning power/better life, probably because thats what our grade school teachers hammered into our heads, which is surely not the case. Some people do make a mistake by going into liberal arts degrees thinking that they're going to be making some kind of mega bucks, and then when IRL hits they think if they spend more money on an equally worthless degree that they'll somehow be making things better. Also, my advice to you would be not to go into law school at all unless its YHSB. LA is exteremely over saturated with legal talent. If you have an interest in serving the community you can pick up trash or teach english as a second langauge at night, there are other ways to do it than getting your JD. And as far as the niche job that requires a JD? You'll probably not get that by going to your schools. But like I said, people take a gamble on going to that liberal arts college, and then they roll the dice again on law school. Good luck!


No, there is not a connection there, to answer your question. I don't really feel like going into it now, but to say my story is somewhat different would be an understatement. Not different as in special and unique, just different. My statement about serving the community was intentionally general, as I perhaps incorrectly assumed readers would not presume "serving the community" to be as broad a statement as to include being a garbage man. You are the poster I was referring to when I mentioned those disparaging liberal arts degrees. I have a degree in history, it has earned me $0.0. I consider it far from worthless and wouldn't change things if I could. We obviously look at things differently. You seem to view one's UG as a means to an end, the end being a healthy income. Thats fine. I see things much differently. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you, what was your major, and where are you going to LS?

Oh, and in regard to your statement about our generation thinking more edu = more $. Is this not the case? I am aware that a higher education may not mean what it used to, but is one not statistically speaking looking at a larger income with a college degree vs. one who has none?


You say that your history degree has given you zero dollars, but that more edu is more $$$. So really if I was straight out of high school I would have made more than you, because you had to spend dollars to get the degree.

Secondly those statistics that you were spoon fed as a child are sadly wrong. Consider this: Most intelligent people, while right or wrong, want to go to college. I'm not saying that there aren't intelligent people who don't, and maybe they're more intelligent than some getting liberal arts degrees, but if you take the VAST majority of intelligent people out of the pool, who would you expect to make more money, even if they started 4 years behind all the others. Hmmmmmmmmmm.



Spoon fed as a child? What's the deal with the holier than thou schtick? Very impressive. And by the way, even with your hypothetical being true, that still does not disprove the statistics. It doesnt even matter. I simply asked an honest question and you responded like an ass. I dont care one way or the other about educations correlation with $.

Foosters Galore
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Foosters Galore » Wed May 26, 2010 9:42 pm

Book on logic? Haha.

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lostjake
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby lostjake » Wed May 26, 2010 9:44 pm

Actually if my hypo is true, it would disprove the argument.

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lostjake
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby lostjake » Wed May 26, 2010 9:45 pm

I'm still waiting for you to use my logic against me.

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Matthies
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Matthies » Wed May 26, 2010 9:47 pm

lostjake wrote:You say that your history degree has given you zero dollars, but that more edu is more $$$. So really if I was straight out of high school I would have made more than you, because you had to spend dollars to get the degree.

Secondly those statistics that you were spoon fed as a child are sadly wrong. Consider this: Most intelligent people, while right or wrong, want to go to college. I'm not saying that there aren't intelligent people who don't, and maybe they're more intelligent than some getting liberal arts degrees, but if you take the VAST majority of intelligent people out of the pool, who would you expect to make more money, even if they started 4 years behind all the others. Hmmmmmmmmmm.


Ok, granted, I went to a T2 school, so i must be slower and less intelligant than many of yout, but I have no clue what the abouve point is? What cha talking about Willis? Can you dumb it down a bit for me please. kthxbi

Foosters Galore
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Foosters Galore » Wed May 26, 2010 9:47 pm

lostjake wrote:I'm still waiting for you to use my logic against me.


ok. The fact that your current job necessitates an engineering degree does in no way undermine my statement that if you go to law school, get big law, your degree will at that time have become worthless.

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lostjake
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby lostjake » Wed May 26, 2010 9:52 pm

Say you have a graduating class of 100. Of those you have 50 people who are above average intelligence and 50 below. The 50 above will want to go to college, and in this day they can, because everyone says how you need a college education so they go. The other 50, thinking they are not college material do not, and start working other jobs. After the above 50 get their college degree they start working, and whether their job requires a degree in history or not, they are just more intelligent, and probably have a better work ethic and thus move up in a company faster.

The above is what happens in real life, and of the pool of people who you are polling to see if a college degree will have an effect on income, it is easy to see that it wasn't because of the degree, but because of the people with the degree.

Consider B. You have the same class of 100, and for some reason none are allowed to go to college. You still have 50 above intelligence and 50 below. Who do you think will make more money?

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed May 26, 2010 9:55 pm

lostjake wrote:Say you have a graduating class of 100. Of those you have 50 people who are above average intelligence and 50 below. The 50 above will want to go to college, and in this day they can, because everyone says how you need a college education so they go. The other 50, thinking they are not college material do not, and start working other jobs. After the above 50 get their college degree they start working, and whether their job requires a degree in history or not, they are just more intelligent, and probably have a better work ethic and thus move up in a company faster.

The above is what happens in real life, and of the pool of people who you are polling to see if a college degree will have an effect on income, it is easy to see that it wasn't because of the degree, but because of the people with the degree.

Consider B. You have the same class of 100, and for some reason none are allowed to go to college. You still have 50 above intelligence and 50 below. Who do you think will make more money?

The kids with the guns?

Foosters Galore
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Foosters Galore » Wed May 26, 2010 9:56 pm

I think we can agree that we have differing opinions on the point of higher education. Im not going to convince you that I'm right and neither am I going to follow your line of thinking. Thats ok. The point of my original post was simply to acknowledge that people might view things differently. Thats all.

Ok, after reading your example of 100, I'm still confused. I understand the logic behind it, but the statistics would still bear out higher education = more $$, even if the degree had nothing to do with their higher incomes.

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lostjake
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby lostjake » Wed May 26, 2010 9:57 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
lostjake wrote:Say you have a graduating class of 100. Of those you have 50 people who are above average intelligence and 50 below. The 50 above will want to go to college, and in this day they can, because everyone says how you need a college education so they go. The other 50, thinking they are not college material do not, and start working other jobs. After the above 50 get their college degree they start working, and whether their job requires a degree in history or not, they are just more intelligent, and probably have a better work ethic and thus move up in a company faster.

The above is what happens in real life, and of the pool of people who you are polling to see if a college degree will have an effect on income, it is easy to see that it wasn't because of the degree, but because of the people with the degree.

Consider B. You have the same class of 100, and for some reason none are allowed to go to college. You still have 50 above intelligence and 50 below. Who do you think will make more money?

The kids with the guns?


Obviously the answer was the hottest female.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed May 26, 2010 9:58 pm

This thread is now different than it was when I last entered the thread to read the contents of the various posts and I am very startled by all of this and am now going to go elsewhere on the forum.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed May 26, 2010 10:00 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:This thread is now different than it was when I last entered the thread to read the contents of the various posts and I am very startled by all of this and am now going to go elsewhere on the forum.

RACIST!!!

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Matthies
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Matthies » Wed May 26, 2010 10:52 pm

lostjake wrote:Say you have a graduating class of 100. Of those you have 50 people who are above average intelligence and 50 below. The 50 above will want to go to college, and in this day they can, because everyone says how you need a college education so they go. The other 50, thinking they are not college material do not, and start working other jobs. After the above 50 get their college degree they start working, and whether their job requires a degree in history or not, they are just more intelligent, and probably have a better work ethic and thus move up in a company faster.

The above is what happens in real life, and of the pool of people who you are polling to see if a college degree will have an effect on income, it is easy to see that it wasn't because of the degree, but because of the people with the degree.

Consider B. You have the same class of 100, and for some reason none are allowed to go to college. You still have 50 above intelligence and 50 below. Who do you think will make more money?


in America, the real smart people, the really rich people don't tend to go to college or finish college. The Bill Gates, That Two Steve's, the enrtapuauarts. The people who go to UG than go to grad school do so beaus they are mostly (and is most of the population) average inelegance. Their whole goal and meaning of success for them is working for the person who actalluly had the smarts to create the success. This generations wants, strives for middle management, they want he risktaketrs to take the risks then give them jobs where they font have to come upon with great ideas, new revolutions or products,. they want 160k to sit in an office and re-write memos. So long as your someone's employee, you're not as successful as someone who employee people.

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Regionality
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Regionality » Thu May 27, 2010 2:07 am

Man I go to one stinking, lousy baseball game...my home team loses and I come back to some weird nonsensical conversation.

I seriously don't understand how either of you are trying to logically prove that a liberal arts degree is definitively financially beneficial or definitively a bad idea....that's a really really difficult thing to prove with an argument the size of an LSAT critical reasoning paragraph.

Isn't it safe to say that many jobs require bachelor's degrees and many do not? For those that require the degree, aren't they usually higher paying than a job that doesn't require a degree? Furthermore, aren't there a lot of jobs that don't care what kind of degree it is, they just want proof that you're literate and capable of writing/reading/thinking? Am I missing something here?

Edit: Furthermore, aren't there many jobs out there that pay better than degree-required jobs but are perhaps terribly unrewarding, boring or monotonous? Garbage man, plumber, and other manual labor unionized jobs come to mind...BUT doesn't the lower paying job requiring the degree provide for a certain amount of intellectual satisfaction that isn't measurable in financial terms? Can't we just agree that it all depends?

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prezidentv8
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu May 27, 2010 2:26 am

Regionality wrote:Man I go to one stinking, lousy baseball game...


Giants?

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Regionality
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Regionality » Thu May 27, 2010 2:33 am

prezidentv8 wrote:
Regionality wrote:Man I go to one stinking, lousy baseball game...


Giants?


Lincecum blows up...seriously? That's two terrible starts in a row for him...I'm really worried.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu May 27, 2010 2:36 am

Regionality wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
Regionality wrote:Man I go to one stinking, lousy baseball game...


Giants?


Lincecum blows up...seriously? That's two terrible starts in a row for him...I'm really worried.


Yeah that was awful.

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War Cardinal
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby War Cardinal » Thu May 27, 2010 2:50 am

prezidentv8 wrote:This thread is now different than it was when I last entered the thread to read the contents of the various posts . . . .


"After changes upon changes, we are more or less the same"

Jchouu
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Jchouu » Thu May 27, 2010 3:04 am

it's hilarious how young this thread is and how many pages it has already become. If you're already met with the person, then ignore, otherwise, just tell him "you should look up forums online, that's what i did" then you won't be directly sending him to the shark tank, but he'll find it for himself

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby quickquestionthanks » Thu May 27, 2010 3:16 am

War Cardinal wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:This thread is now different than it was when I last entered the thread to read the contents of the various posts . . . .


"After changes upon changes, we are more or less the same"


I really enjoyed that. Thanks

splittsville
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby splittsville » Thu May 27, 2010 3:35 am

lostjake wrote:25-30, engineering, still on the fence about even going

Now sir, what do you mean by serving your community, because there are many ways to serve it without a JD.

And also many people would consider getting a degree a means to an end such as a job, and while you may value your degree, it has no 'worth' as far as your job goes, or so I would presume.

I wouldn't get a degree in history, as I could pick up a book and learn it just fine without a teacher having to feed it to me, engineering on the other hand is slightly different.


Only an engineer would be smart enough to get an engineering degree and yet be dumb enough to make this statement.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu May 27, 2010 4:21 am

splittsville wrote:
lostjake wrote:25-30, engineering, still on the fence about even going

Now sir, what do you mean by serving your community, because there are many ways to serve it without a JD.

And also many people would consider getting a degree a means to an end such as a job, and while you may value your degree, it has no 'worth' as far as your job goes, or so I would presume.

I wouldn't get a degree in history, as I could pick up a book and learn it just fine without a teacher having to feed it to me, engineering on the other hand is slightly different.


Only an engineer would be smart enough to get an engineering degree and yet be dumb enough to make this statement.


Yeah that's pretty bad. Also about the only type of person I'd expect to make that kind of statement too. :roll:

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lostjake
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby lostjake » Thu May 27, 2010 6:39 am

prezidentv8 wrote:
splittsville wrote:
lostjake wrote:25-30, engineering, still on the fence about even going

Now sir, what do you mean by serving your community, because there are many ways to serve it without a JD.

And also many people would consider getting a degree a means to an end such as a job, and while you may value your degree, it has no 'worth' as far as your job goes, or so I would presume.

I wouldn't get a degree in history, as I could pick up a book and learn it just fine without a teacher having to feed it to me, engineering on the other hand is slightly different.


Only an engineer would be smart enough to get an engineering degree and yet be dumb enough to make this statement.


Yeah that's pretty bad. Also about the only type of person I'd expect to make that kind of statement too. :roll:


Explain? I took some history classes in college as general electives along with some econ classes (up to the 300 level) and was fairly unimpressed. One of the more respected econ teachers would literally read straight out of the text, I find it hard to believe that you couldn't learn the information yourself with several text books and time.

Unless you're talking about "critical writing and analysis skills". They also market books towards those. Many of the greatest thinkers of the world and even recently had no formal education but learned from a book.

Since this is a law school forum, heres a reference:

http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/lawyers.htm

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prezidentv8
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu May 27, 2010 7:13 am

lostjake wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
splittsville wrote:
lostjake wrote:25-30, engineering, still on the fence about even going

Now sir, what do you mean by serving your community, because there are many ways to serve it without a JD.

And also many people would consider getting a degree a means to an end such as a job, and while you may value your degree, it has no 'worth' as far as your job goes, or so I would presume.

I wouldn't get a degree in history, as I could pick up a book and learn it just fine without a teacher having to feed it to me, engineering on the other hand is slightly different.


Only an engineer would be smart enough to get an engineering degree and yet be dumb enough to make this statement.


Yeah that's pretty bad. Also about the only type of person I'd expect to make that kind of statement too. :roll:


Explain? I took some history classes in college as general electives along with some econ classes (up to the 300 level) and was fairly unimpressed. One of the more respected econ teachers would literally read straight out of the text, I find it hard to believe that you couldn't learn the information yourself with several text books and time.

Unless you're talking about "critical writing and analysis skills". They also market books towards those. Many of the greatest thinkers of the world and even recently had no formal education but learned from a book.

Since this is a law school forum, heres a reference:

http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/lawyers.htm


I think I'm referring more to the academic pissing contest that seemingly all (read: not all, but it seems like just about all because of the volume) engineering students try to get into. Congratulations! Your undergrad major required math and graded on a curve! OMGz! Damn, you people get old with this - it's school, who cares?

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trialjunky
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby trialjunky » Thu May 27, 2010 7:22 am

Regionality wrote:Man I go to one stinking, lousy baseball game...my home team loses and I come back to some weird nonsensical conversation.


It pains me, but I have to agree with RGY. What the hell happened to this thread?




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