Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE Forum

[Regionality]

FWIW I talked a friend of mine into not going into getting a full time MBA.

Well done sir!! I had almost all but forgotten the MBA option. You're friend will certainly owe you big time for this great advice!!

You are a true friend!

I thought you meant that I wasn't a good friend

I'm sure you're a great friend. No hard feelings now. Internet is serious business you know.

Aww look, they're friends! Fighting words so quickly turn into BFF's when one person says one nice thing!

Matlock, still don't be an ass to people, it's unpleasant. And there's nothing offensive about my title except what TTTT stands for, which is a term I had no control over and to be honest, I don't even know what the 4th "T" stands for...but if I had my way I'd remake the acronym.

[Regionality]

I am always a little baffled when people start threads like these.

Some people like to be straight up told when their ideas are an utter failure. Some prefer that the news bearer break it gently. Some need a serious discussion. Some respond well to hints. Some appreciate blatant paternalism. Some are so stubborn that it's no use talking to them at all.

Bottom line: you're familiar with this person's mental make-up more so than any of us. You should know what (if anything) might work better than anyone else. You should be able to figure the approach out on your own.

What am I a therapist?

I've never felt compelled to give such serious advice to anyone...I've never felt someone was making such a poor, life changing decision before. I'm in unfamiliar territory.

What are we, your/his therapists?

I didn't realize that being cognizant of a friend's personality and acting accordingly constituted therapy. I should have gotten another degree by now, if so.

haha fair enough....I just meant that I don't know how they will best respond to different forms of advice...and while y'all certainly don't know either, I've been lacking on ideas and thought a thread would inspire me, which it has so far....I have been presented with the full gamut of options and I will make a decision based on these suggestions knowing what I know.

[dresden doll]

What am I a therapist?

Yes.

I am always a little baffled when people start threads like these.

Some people like to be straight up told when their ideas are an utter failure. Some prefer that the news bearer break it gently. Some need a serious discussion. Some respond well to hints. Some appreciate blatant paternalism. Some are so stubborn that it's no use talking to them at all.

Bottom line: you're familiar with this person's mental make-up more so than any of us. You should know what (if anything) might work better than anyone else. You should be able to figure the approach out on your own.

The OP did say that he/she was not good at doing this kind of thing (i.e. often sounded too blunt, etc) and that is why he/she asked for help.

After one of my friends told me he'd go to New Western England School of Law because he figured he didn't want to work too hard in law school, I told him he was a moron. He was cool with it. Why? Because he's the type of person who responds well to bluntness. He's told me before I was making a colossal mistake when he believed that to be the case. I've never gotten mad at him. Why? Because I am okay with bluntness too. It's the nature of our relationship.

That said, there are definitely friends to whom I'd never talk like that because I know it would hurt their feelings.

Bottom line is, OP ought to know how to approach this person better than anyone on TLS. If he sincerely can't figure out how to 'do that kind of a thing' perhaps he should delegate to someone who can (i.e. TLS).

[Matthies]

I've never felt compelled to give such serious advice to anyone...I've never felt someone was making such a poor, life changing decision before. I'm in unfamiliar territory.

Its comes with age, you'll top getting the compleiing urge to tell people what to do with thier lives becuase the older you are the more you learn: A- people won't listen to your advice anyway, B- your advice is not really that great, C- sometimes you're wrong and D- people stop being your friends after a while of you telling them what they should do with their lives. So then, you have kids, so you can control them instead of your friends and you spend he next 18 years telling them what to do.

[bilbobaggins]

I've never felt compelled to give such serious advice to anyone...I've never felt someone was making such a poor, life changing decision before. I'm in unfamiliar territory.

Its comes with age, you'll top getting the compleiing urge to tell people what to do with thier lives becuase the older you are the more you learn: A- people won't listen to your advice anyway, B- your advice is not really that great, C- sometimes you're wrong and D- people stop being your friends after a while of you telling them what they should do with their lives. So then, you have kids, so you can control them instead of your friends and you spend he next 18 years telling them what to do.

TITCR.

[Mr. Matlock]

Yeah...matthies is taking the other side of the coin for a rare second and for some reason people are licking his balls/her vajajay for it.

Region, apparently you know so much more about the world than your friend does. FWIW, your buddy above is what I consider to be an ass of the highest order.

[quickquestionthanks]

I've never felt compelled to give such serious advice to anyone...I've never felt someone was making such a poor, life changing decision before. I'm in unfamiliar territory.

Its comes with age, you'll top getting the compleiing urge to tell people what to do with thier lives becuase the older you are the more you learn: A- people won't listen to your advice anyway, B- your advice is not really that great, C- sometimes you're wrong and D- people stop being your friends after a while of you telling them what they should do with their lives. So then, you have kids, so you can control them instead of your friends and you spend he next [strike]18[/strike] however many years until you die telling them what to do.

TITCR.

now TCR

[Regionality]

I've never felt compelled to give such serious advice to anyone...I've never felt someone was making such a poor, life changing decision before. I'm in unfamiliar territory.

Its comes with age, you'll top getting the compleiing urge to tell people what to do with thier lives becuase the older you are the more you learn: A- people won't listen to your advice anyway, B- your advice is not really that great, C- sometimes you're wrong and D- people stop being your friends after a while of you telling them what they should do with their lives. So then, you have kids, so you can control them instead of your friends and you spend he next 18 years telling them what to do.

haha...is that why people have kids?

[Matthies]

Matlock, still don't be an ass to people, it's unpleasant.

Look Matlock and I are old, if there is one damn thing we have earned the right to do by reaching such an advanced age its being an ass to yougins on the internet (and if they dare step foot on our lawns.)

[hiromoto45]

OP: I have some friends that gloat on facebook about how they are getting a full ride for law school. Seeing their status updates makes my stomach turn. I wrestle everyday with if I should tell them that a full ride to a Tier 4 school or that paying sticker at a T3 isn't awesome.

[berkeleykel06]

OP: I have some friends that gloat on facebook about how they are getting a full ride for law school. Seeing their status updates makes my stomach turn. I wrestle everyday with if I should tell them that a full ride to a Tier 4 school or that paying sticker at a T3 isn't awesome.

Perhaps their bragging is misplaced in that case, but there are a lot of worse things you can do than going to a T4 on a full ride. If it works out for them, great. If not, at least they haven't incurred substantial debt in the process.

[trialjunky]

This turned into a shitshow pretty quickly...

OP: I have some friends that gloat on facebook about how they are getting a full ride for law school. Seeing their status updates makes my stomach turn. I wrestle everyday with if I should tell them that a full ride to a Tier 4 school or that paying sticker at a T3 isn't awesome.

I normally feel compelled to say something when this happens. Stetson is an awesome school. You can do well or you can do really poorly...note those who do well, did really well in school. Florida Coastal is different. Plus, they give out shittastic scholarships that they're banking on you losing. If a friends brings it up, to me its up for discussion. So, we discuss it...

[Mr. Matlock]

Matlock, still don't be an ass to people, it's unpleasant.

Look Matlock and I are old, if there is one damn thing we have earned the right to do by reaching such an advanced age its being an ass to yougins on the internet (and if they dare step foot on our lawns.)

--ImageRemoved--

[hiromoto45]

OP: I have some friends that gloat on facebook about how they are getting a full ride for law school. Seeing their status updates makes my stomach turn. I wrestle everyday with if I should tell them that a full ride to a Tier 4 school or that paying sticker at a T3 isn't awesome.

Perhaps their bragging is misplaced in that case, but there are a lot of worse things you can do than going to a T4 on a full ride. If it works out for them, great. If not, at least they haven't incurred substantial debt in the process.

Right. But they don't consider things, for example, if they cannot get a legal job and go for a job they could have gotten with their UG degree or with a masters in that field. They are now marked as "overqualified" for positions.

Also they aren't asking for advice or discussing their law school. I just observe their comments.

[Sias]

Regionality--what's up bud.

I'm friends with a girl who just finished up her 1L at a TTTT. Unlike you and your friend, she and I are really close friends and I feel comfortable being able to talk about anything with her--anything except her law school. A few months ago I did what you're considering doing while out getting drinks. I wasn't condescending about it, but she had just received her first semester grades and was at or below median and I felt obligated to ask whether or not she really thought it worthwhile to continue taking out huge loans to pay for a school where even the top-10% can struggle to find work. She responded with the typical "it's not where you get your degree, it's what you do with it" platitude. A sentiment that, were she doing extremely well, I would have absolutely agreed with. But, like most people in denial, she became upset and defensive and the next day emailed me "stats" of her TTTT saying that it excels in certain fields.

Wasn't worth it: she's still enrolled and our relationship suffered a bit. If I ask about school or exams she becomes defensive and starts using the "call me in 10 years and we'll see who's a better lawyer" line.

I learned not to rain unsolicited advice on people. They take offense to it--and rightly so. BUT, if your friend asks for your advice you should be straight and honest. I'll never sugar coat advice if someone asks for it--I don't cater to people who ask for my opinion when what they really want is approbation (this kinda hearkens to your post the other day. You got honest advice from me bro)

[Matthies]

OP: I have some friends that gloat on facebook about how they are getting a full ride for law school. Seeing their status updates makes my stomach turn. I wrestle everyday with if I should tell them that a full ride to a Tier 4 school or that paying sticker at a T3 isn't awesome.

Oh I know exactly what you mean! I wrestle everyday with telling my friends on facebook their kids are not "special." My friend just posted a blurb about her wonderfully little "gifted Johnny" who because he is not challenged in school burnt down the family's den playing with matches and sometimes he beats the dog with a belt. I mean I want to tell them "look Johnny is not gifted, he's a pyromaniac little monster psychopath likely to grow up to be a serial killer.' But on second thought, making myself feel better my degenerating my friend's children probably would not make me friend of the year material.

[Always Credited]

Regionality--what's up bud.

I'm friends with a girl who just finished up her 1L at a TTTT. Unlike you and your friend, she and I are really close friends and I feel comfortable being able to talk about anything with her--anything except her law school. A few months ago I did what you're considering doing while out getting drinks. I wasn't condescending about it, but she had just received her first semester grades and was at or below median and I felt obligated to ask whether or not she really thought it worthwhile to continue taking out huge loans to pay for a school where even the top-10% can struggle to find work. She responded with the typical "it's not where you get your degree, it's what you do with it" platitude. A sentiment that, were she doing extremely well, I would have absolutely agreed with. But, like most people in denial, she became upset and defensive and the next day emailed me "stats" of her TTTT saying that it excels in certain fields.

Wasn't worth it: she's still enrolled and our relationship suffered a bit. If I ask about school or exams she becomes defensive and starts using the "call me in 10 years and we'll see who's a better lawyer" line.

I learned not to rain unsolicited advice on people. They take offense to it--and rightly so. BUT, if your friend asks for your advice you should be straight and honest. I'll never sugar coat advice if someone asks for it--I don't cater to people who ask for my opinion when what they really want is approbation (this kinda hearkens to your post the other day. You got honest advice from me bro)

+1

[theLastZion]

Regionality--what's up bud.

I'm friends with a girl who just finished up her 1L at a TTTT. Unlike you and your friend, she and I are really close friends and I feel comfortable being able to talk about anything with her--anything except her law school. A few months ago I did what you're considering doing while out getting drinks. I wasn't condescending about it, but she had just received her first semester grades and was at or below median and I felt obligated to ask whether or not she really thought it worthwhile to continue taking out huge loans to pay for a school where even the top-10% can struggle to find work. She responded with the typical "it's not where you get your degree, it's what you do with it" platitude. A sentiment that, were she doing extremely well, I would have absolutely agreed with. But, like most people in denial, she became upset and defensive and the next day emailed me "stats" of her TTTT saying that it excels in certain fields.

Wasn't worth it: she's still enrolled and our relationship suffered a bit. If I ask about school or exams she becomes defensive and starts using the "call me in 10 years and we'll see who's a better lawyer" line.

I learned not to rain unsolicited advice on people. They take offense to it--and rightly so. BUT, if your friend asks for your advice you should be straight and honest. I'll never sugar coat advice if someone asks for it--I don't cater to people who ask for my opinion when what they really want is approbation (this kinda hearkens to your post the other day. You got honest advice from me bro)

+1

Absolutely. There's no way you can do this without sounding like a complete douche unless it is explicitly solicited. Even then you should probably watch out. I mean your friend may be right and we may all be crazy for not taking schollys at TTTT over sticker at T14. Everyone evaluates risk in a different way, and a lot of the ways that people evaluate risk are batshit fucking insane. Somehow, though, people usually make it work. If you want this to be a friendly encounter, you won't purport to know what's best for your friend; at most point them in the direction of TLS as a great source for law students.

[Foosters Galore]

Has anyone considered that everyone has a different motivation for selecting an educational or career path? I just dont understand some of these views here on TLS. Ive seen liberal arts degrees incessantly vilified because of their lack of potential earning power. Ive seen people told to flat out withdraw from the T2 where they're paying sticker because they're destined to be calling the parents' basement home. Ive seen people told to remain in the their current profession (even though they have a pronounced hatred for it) because after doing the math, someone has figured out they will save 2,111.87 over the next 43 years by forgoing law school.

What is wrong with you people? I must have missed the header at the top of the applications that stated money is the sole reason for coming to our school. Passion for law? Interest in serving the community? Lifelong dream of working in a niche only accessible via a JD? Pssshhh. You gotta be kidding me. Such people don't exist. And if one is brave enough to crawl out of the woodwork here on TLS he is told to retake, try again next year. I understand expectations tempered by reality, but it has become ridiculous. I'm a splitter and was told "wait till next year", "don't go to any of the lower T2s I applied to", and "apply to WUSL, Northwestern, etc., next year." Never mind that I have a committed interest in working in Southern California, "I would be foolish to pay sticker at a place like Pepperdine or USD". So instead, I guess I'll avoid the discomfort of a substantial loan payments to abandon a career path that I though would be fulfilling; so that I may remain in a field I dislike so I can go home after my soul crushing job and think, "man, I really fucking hate my job, but at least Ive got this extra money saved up." Yes, I realize there are ways out of disagreeable careers other than law school. It just seems too often we look at this decision solely in a "cost vs. potential income" fashion. We fail to consider the myriad factors that may drive someone into law.

You want advice on how to gently break it to your friend that in your opinion (an opinion void of any actual experience) he/she is ruining his/her life? Simply email him/her the WSJ article about the poor guy from NU. If she goes chicken little as effortlessly as most around here, she'll make the right call on her own.

end rant.

[lostjake]

Has anyone considered that everyone has a different motivation for selecting an educational or career path? I just dont understand some of these views here on TLS. Ive seen liberal arts degrees incessantly vilified because of their lack of potential earning power. Ive seen people told to flat out withdraw from the T2 where they're paying sticker because they're destined to be calling the parents' basement home. Ive seen people told to remain in the their current profession (even though they have a pronounced hatred for it) because after doing the math, someone has figured out they will save 2,111.87 over the next 43 years by forgoing law school.

What is wrong with you people? I must have missed the header at the top of the applications that stated money is the sole reason for coming to our school. Passion for law? Interest in serving the community? Lifelong dream of working in a niche only accessible via a JD? Pssshhh. You gotta be kidding me. Such people don't exist. And if one is brave enough to crawl out of the woodwork here on TLS he is told to retake, try again next year. I understand expectations tempered by reality, but it has become ridiculous. I'm a splitter and was told "wait till next year", "don't go to any of the lower T2s I applied to", and "apply to WUSL, Northwestern, etc., next year." Never mind that I have a committed interest in working in Southern California, "I would be foolish to pay sticker at a place like Pepperdine or USD". So instead, I guess I'll avoid the discomfort of a substantial loan payments to abandon a career path that I though would be fulfilling; so that I may remain in a field I dislike so I can go home after my soul crushing job and think, "man, I really fucking hate my job, but at least Ive got this extra money saved up." Yes, I realize there are ways out of disagreeable careers other than law school. It just seems too often we look at this decision solely in a "cost vs. potential income" fashion. We fail to consider the myriad factors that may drive someone into law.

You want advice on how to gently break it to your friend that in your opinion (an opinion void of any actual experience) he/she is ruining his/her life? Simply email him/her the WSJ article about the poor guy from NU. If she goes chicken little as effortlessly as most around here, she'll make the right call on her own.

end rant.

FWIW I think you should go either go to a T14 or go somewhere free, whether that be a TTT TTT or T1. So really suspect that is going to a TTTT might be better off than the OP, both of whom should think really hard about going. 2nd, you complain about people knocking liberal arts degrees, and then you go on to say that you dislike your soul crushing job. No connection there? For some reason our generation seems to think that more education means more earning power/better life, probably because thats what our grade school teachers hammered into our heads, which is surely not the case. Some people do make a mistake by going into liberal arts degrees thinking that they're going to be making some kind of mega bucks, and then when IRL hits they think if they spend more money on an equally worthless degree that they'll somehow be making things better. Also, my advice to you would be not to go into law school at all unless its YHSB. LA is exteremely over saturated with legal talent. If you have an interest in serving the community you can pick up trash or teach english as a second langauge at night, there are other ways to do it than getting your JD. And as far as the niche job that requires a JD? You'll probably not get that by going to your schools. But like I said, people take a gamble on going to that liberal arts college, and then they roll the dice again on law school. Good luck!

[Foosters Galore]

Has anyone considered that everyone has a different motivation for selecting an educational or career path? I just dont understand some of these views here on TLS. Ive seen liberal arts degrees incessantly vilified because of their lack of potential earning power. Ive seen people told to flat out withdraw from the T2 where they're paying sticker because they're destined to be calling the parents' basement home. Ive seen people told to remain in the their current profession (even though they have a pronounced hatred for it) because after doing the math, someone has figured out they will save 2,111.87 over the next 43 years by forgoing law school.

What is wrong with you people? I must have missed the header at the top of the applications that stated money is the sole reason for coming to our school. Passion for law? Interest in serving the community? Lifelong dream of working in a niche only accessible via a JD? Pssshhh. You gotta be kidding me. Such people don't exist. And if one is brave enough to crawl out of the woodwork here on TLS he is told to retake, try again next year. I understand expectations tempered by reality, but it has become ridiculous. I'm a splitter and was told "wait till next year", "don't go to any of the lower T2s I applied to", and "apply to WUSL, Northwestern, etc., next year." Never mind that I have a committed interest in working in Southern California, "I would be foolish to pay sticker at a place like Pepperdine or USD". So instead, I guess I'll avoid the discomfort of a substantial loan payments to abandon a career path that I though would be fulfilling; so that I may remain in a field I dislike so I can go home after my soul crushing job and think, "man, I really fucking hate my job, but at least Ive got this extra money saved up." Yes, I realize there are ways out of disagreeable careers other than law school. It just seems too often we look at this decision solely in a "cost vs. potential income" fashion. We fail to consider the myriad factors that may drive someone into law.

You want advice on how to gently break it to your friend that in your opinion (an opinion void of any actual experience) he/she is ruining his/her life? Simply email him/her the WSJ article about the poor guy from NU. If she goes chicken little as effortlessly as most around here, she'll make the right call on her own.

end rant.

FWIW I think you should go either go to a T14 or go somewhere free, whether that be a TTT TTT or T1. So really suspect that is going to a TTTT might be better off than the OP, both of whom should think really hard about going. 2nd, you complain about people knocking liberal arts degrees, and then you go on to say that you dislike your soul crushing job. No connection there? For some reason our generation seems to think that more education means more earning power/better life, probably because thats what our grade school teachers hammered into our heads, which is surely not the case. Some people do make a mistake by going into liberal arts degrees thinking that they're going to be making some kind of mega bucks, and then when IRL hits they think if they spend more money on an equally worthless degree that they'll somehow be making things better. Also, my advice to you would be not to go into law school at all unless its YHSB. LA is exteremely over saturated with legal talent. If you have an interest in serving the community you can pick up trash or teach english as a second langauge at night, there are other ways to do it than getting your JD. And as far as the niche job that requires a JD? You'll probably not get that by going to your schools. But like I said, people take a gamble on going to that liberal arts college, and then they roll the dice again on law school. Good luck!

No, there is not a connection there, to answer your question. I don't really feel like going into it now, but to say my story is somewhat different would be an understatement. Not different as in special and unique, just different. My statement about serving the community was intentionally general, as I perhaps incorrectly assumed readers would not presume "serving the community" to be as broad a statement as to include being a garbage man. You are the poster I was referring to when I mentioned those disparaging liberal arts degrees. I have a degree in history, it has earned me $0.0. I consider it far from worthless and wouldn't change things if I could. We obviously look at things differently. You seem to view one's UG as a means to an end, the end being a healthy income. Thats fine. I see things much differently. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you, what was your major, and where are you going to LS?

Oh, and in regard to your statement about our generation thinking more edu = more $. Is this not the case? I am aware that a higher education may not mean what it used to, but is one not statistically speaking looking at a larger income with a college degree vs. one who has none?

[lostjake]

25-30, engineering, still on the fence about even going

Now sir, what do you mean by serving your community, because there are many ways to serve it without a JD.

And also many people would consider getting a degree a means to an end such as a job, and while you may value your degree, it has no 'worth' as far as your job goes, or so I would presume.

I wouldn't get a degree in history, as I could pick up a book and learn it just fine without a teacher having to feed it to me, engineering on the other hand is slightly different.

[lostjake]

Has anyone considered that everyone has a different motivation for selecting an educational or career path? I just dont understand some of these views here on TLS. Ive seen liberal arts degrees incessantly vilified because of their lack of potential earning power. Ive seen people told to flat out withdraw from the T2 where they're paying sticker because they're destined to be calling the parents' basement home. Ive seen people told to remain in the their current profession (even though they have a pronounced hatred for it) because after doing the math, someone has figured out they will save 2,111.87 over the next 43 years by forgoing law school.

What is wrong with you people? I must have missed the header at the top of the applications that stated money is the sole reason for coming to our school. Passion for law? Interest in serving the community? Lifelong dream of working in a niche only accessible via a JD? Pssshhh. You gotta be kidding me. Such people don't exist. And if one is brave enough to crawl out of the woodwork here on TLS he is told to retake, try again next year. I understand expectations tempered by reality, but it has become ridiculous. I'm a splitter and was told "wait till next year", "don't go to any of the lower T2s I applied to", and "apply to WUSL, Northwestern, etc., next year." Never mind that I have a committed interest in working in Southern California, "I would be foolish to pay sticker at a place like Pepperdine or USD". So instead, I guess I'll avoid the discomfort of a substantial loan payments to abandon a career path that I though would be fulfilling; so that I may remain in a field I dislike so I can go home after my soul crushing job and think, "man, I really fucking hate my job, but at least Ive got this extra money saved up." Yes, I realize there are ways out of disagreeable careers other than law school. It just seems too often we look at this decision solely in a "cost vs. potential income" fashion. We fail to consider the myriad factors that may drive someone into law.

You want advice on how to gently break it to your friend that in your opinion (an opinion void of any actual experience) he/she is ruining his/her life? Simply email him/her the WSJ article about the poor guy from NU. If she goes chicken little as effortlessly as most around here, she'll make the right call on her own.

end rant.

FWIW I think you should go either go to a T14 or go somewhere free, whether that be a TTT TTT or T1. So really suspect that is going to a TTTT might be better off than the OP, both of whom should think really hard about going. 2nd, you complain about people knocking liberal arts degrees, and then you go on to say that you dislike your soul crushing job. No connection there? For some reason our generation seems to think that more education means more earning power/better life, probably because thats what our grade school teachers hammered into our heads, which is surely not the case. Some people do make a mistake by going into liberal arts degrees thinking that they're going to be making some kind of mega bucks, and then when IRL hits they think if they spend more money on an equally worthless degree that they'll somehow be making things better. Also, my advice to you would be not to go into law school at all unless its YHSB. LA is exteremely over saturated with legal talent. If you have an interest in serving the community you can pick up trash or teach english as a second langauge at night, there are other ways to do it than getting your JD. And as far as the niche job that requires a JD? You'll probably not get that by going to your schools. But like I said, people take a gamble on going to that liberal arts college, and then they roll the dice again on law school. Good luck!

No, there is not a connection there, to answer your question. I don't really feel like going into it now, but to say my story is somewhat different would be an understatement. Not different as in special and unique, just different. My statement about serving the community was intentionally general, as I perhaps incorrectly assumed readers would not presume "serving the community" to be as broad a statement as to include being a garbage man. You are the poster I was referring to when I mentioned those disparaging liberal arts degrees. I have a degree in history, it has earned me $0.0. I consider it far from worthless and wouldn't change things if I could. We obviously look at things differently. You seem to view one's UG as a means to an end, the end being a healthy income. Thats fine. I see things much differently. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you, what was your major, and where are you going to LS?

Oh, and in regard to your statement about our generation thinking more edu = more $. Is this not the case? I am aware that a higher education may not mean what it used to, but is one not statistically speaking looking at a larger income with a college degree vs. one who has none?

You say that your history degree has given you zero dollars, but that more edu is more $$$. So really if I was straight out of high school I would have made more than you, because you had to spend dollars to get the degree.

Secondly those statistics that you were spoon fed as a child are sadly wrong. Consider this: Most intelligent people, while right or wrong, want to go to college. I'm not saying that there aren't intelligent people who don't, and maybe they're more intelligent than some getting liberal arts degrees, but if you take the VAST majority of intelligent people out of the pool, who would you expect to make more money, even if they started 4 years behind all the others. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

[Foosters Galore]

25-30, engineering, still on the fence about even going

Now sir, what do you mean by serving your community, because there are many ways to serve it without a JD.

And also many people would consider getting a degree a means to an end such as a job, and while you may value your degree, it has no 'worth' as far as your job goes, or so I would presume.

I wouldn't get a degree in history, as I could pick up a book and learn it just fine without a teacher having to feed it to me, engineering on the other hand is slightly different.

Yes, there are ways to serve your community without getting a JD. I was referring more to working as a public defender, local govt, etc.

Correct. My degree as no "worth" to my current job. Although, this does not make it a worthless degree. I could argue, using your logic, that if you do go to law school, do well, make big law, your engineering degree will have become worthless as well.

I did not get a history degree in order to memorize facts, dates, battle statistics etc. I had a love for history. In the course of my undergrad career, I learned how to research, analyze, write, etc. Im sure engineering was hard, congrats on that. Are you passionate about it?

[lostjake]

25-30, engineering, still on the fence about even going

Now sir, what do you mean by serving your community, because there are many ways to serve it without a JD.

And also many people would consider getting a degree a means to an end such as a job, and while you may value your degree, it has no 'worth' as far as your job goes, or so I would presume.

I wouldn't get a degree in history, as I could pick up a book and learn it just fine without a teacher having to feed it to me, engineering on the other hand is slightly different.

Yes, there are ways to serve your community without getting a JD. I was referring more to working as a public defender, local govt, etc.

Correct. My degree as no "worth" to my current job. Although, this does not make it a worthless degree. I could argue, using your logic, that if you do go to law school, do well, make big law, your engineering degree will have become worthless as well.

I did not get a history degree in order to memorize facts, dates, battle statistics etc. I had a love for history. In the course of my undergrad career, I learned how to research, analyze, write, etc. Im sure engineering was hard, congrats on that. Are you passionate about it?

Consider this: Maybe my current job requires an engineering degree....

May I suggest a book on logic before law school?