Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

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Regionality
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Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Regionality » Tue May 25, 2010 9:11 pm

Hey folks,

So let's keep this one civil. I need advice on the best course of action. I'm going to be seeing an old, close friend for the first time in a while who will be attending a TTTT school. In most likelihood, we will talk about law schools and my friend will ask me for advice. My friend is excited about going to law school, but doesn't have any friends/family in the industry and certainly doesn't hang out on TLS. I think s/he has very little idea about how terrible the legal market is out there, and thinks his/her scholly of 20k/yr is amazing....despite going into more than 100k in debt to attend this school (plus lost opportunity from not working)

If s/he asks me for advice about law school in general, but already has plans on attending a TTTT, how is the best way to proceed? Should I bite my tongue and just tell him/her it's great? Should I be honest and risk offending him/her? Should I phrase things a certain way?

I think they are pretty committed to the school, so if they tell me they are FOR SURE going, is there other advice I can give to a TTTTer?

Please, be nice and offer constructive advice! My friends and family don't quite understand my concerns regarding the risk of attending such a law school, so I felt asking the TLS community might prove useful.

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A'nold
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Re: Having coffee with a friend going a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby A'nold » Tue May 25, 2010 9:13 pm

The only thing you can do is be excited for them. Anything else will be extremely offensive and douchey. What you can do is tell them about this wonderful little site called top-law-schools.com where she can ask people about her school and gets tons of great 1L study tips. 8)

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Regionality
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Re: Having coffee with a friend going a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Regionality » Tue May 25, 2010 9:19 pm

A'nold wrote:The only thing you can do is be excited for them. Anything else will be extremely offensive and douchey. What you can do is tell them about this wonderful little site called top-law-schools.com where she can ask people about her school and gets tons of great 1L study tips. 8)


Yea I mean I agree and unless s/he asks if I think it's a good idae I won't just volunteer that information...but what else should I say beside referring them to this website which will probably just rip him/her apart!?

I guess what I'm asking is: Is there any advice anyone can think of that will be useful but not douchey?

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bk1
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby bk1 » Tue May 25, 2010 9:22 pm

I agree with Anold. Since this isn't a friend you are constantly in contact with, if you come off as an ass when you meet with him/her then that person will be turned off to what you say no matter what. You are not going to be able to change his/her mind by merely saying things since that person is convinced already.

I would also second Anold in that the best you can do is guide him/her to TLS and hopefully that person will come around. If not, you did the best you could.

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Regionality
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Regionality » Tue May 25, 2010 9:23 pm

bk1 wrote:I agree with Anold. Since this isn't a friend you are constantly in contact with, if you come off as an ass when you meet with him/her then that person will be turned off to what you say no matter what. You are not going to be able to change his/her mind by merely saying things since that person is convinced already.

I would also second Anold in that the best you can do is guide him/her to TLS and hopefully that person will come around. If not, you did the best you could.


So kindly point them in the direction of TLS where anonymous sharks can rip them apart and knock some sense into them?

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trialjunky
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby trialjunky » Tue May 25, 2010 9:27 pm

I would probably congratulate him/her and ask them how they want you to play this. Let them know, you've done a little research on the school and you've run across some things that make you a little uneasy. If they ask what, respond in kind. If they dont then just leave it alone.

Unfort., the likelihood of sounding like a douchetruck is high but I rather be considered douchey and knowI tried to do the right thing than not do anything at all.

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thecilent
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby thecilent » Tue May 25, 2010 9:29 pm

Regionality wrote:Hey folks,

So let's keep this one civil. I need advice on the best course of action. I'm going to be seeing an old, close friend for the first time in a while who will be attending a TTTT school. In most likelihood, we will talk about law schools and my friend will ask me for advice. My friend is excited about going to law school, but doesn't have any friends/family in the industry and certainly doesn't hang out on TLS. I think s/he has very little idea about how terrible the legal market is out there, and thinks his/her scholly of 20k/yr is amazing....despite going into more than 100k in debt to attend this school (plus lost opportunity from not working)

If s/he asks me for advice about law school in general, but already has plans on attending a TTTT, how is the best way to proceed? Should I bite my tongue and just tell him/her it's great? Should I be honest and risk offending him/her? Should I phrase things a certain way?

I think they are pretty committed to the school, so if they tell me they are FOR SURE going, is there other advice I can give to a TTTTer?

Please, be nice and offer constructive advice! My friends and family don't quite understand my concerns regarding the risk of attending such a law school, so I felt asking the TLS community might prove useful.


I don't understand why you have to hide the gender of your friend?

Edit for boldness

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bk1
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby bk1 » Tue May 25, 2010 9:31 pm

Do you feel your friend is making a bad decision and feel like you should do what you can to help him/her change his/her mind? Then direct them to TLS. If this is how you feel, the best chance of changing his/her mind is TLS (or possibly one of those NLJ250 charts). You can lead a horse to water... yadda, yadda.

Are you seriously worried that getting ripped on TLS will have a detrimental effect upon his/her psyche? Then don't do it. But if you feel that your friend is a strong enough person who understands how internet forums work, and may actually get some advice that you want to give him/her, then go for it.

I understand that you would feel bad for letting him/her get torn apart, but if you feel like he/she is making a bad decision then this is the most reasonable way to change that. Is it cruel? Possibly, but it does seem necessary if your desired effect is change.

As for what to say. Other than suggesting things, I would not lie, but I also would not attack his/her choices outright. Comments along the line of "do what's best for you" are probably the most apt.

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A'nold
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby A'nold » Tue May 25, 2010 9:32 pm

trialjunky wrote:I would probably congratulate him/her and ask them how they want you to play this. Let them know, you've done a little research on the school and you've run across some things that make you a little uneasy. If they ask what, respond in kind. If they dont then just leave it alone.

Unfort., the likelihood of sounding like a douchetruck is high but I rather be considered douchey and knowI tried to do the right thing than not do anything at all.


Wrong. I have never met even one person that I think would take any negative comments in stride in this situation. They already know that they have low numbers and feel proud (whether a false sense, real sense, or a defensive sense) of their accomplishment and are excited to start at this school. You will greatly offend them if you personally even hint that you do not think that this is a great opportunity.

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Regionality
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Regionality » Tue May 25, 2010 9:33 pm

Cilent21 wrote:
Regionality wrote:Hey folks,

So let's keep this one civil. I need advice on the best course of action. I'm going to be seeing an old, close friend for the first time in a while who will be attending a TTTT school. In most likelihood, we will talk about law schools and my friend will ask me for advice. My friend is excited about going to law school, but doesn't have any friends/family in the industry and certainly doesn't hang out on TLS. I think s/he has very little idea about how terrible the legal market is out there, and thinks his/her scholly of 20k/yr is amazing....despite going into more than 100k in debt to attend this school (plus lost opportunity from not working)

If s/he asks me for advice about law school in general, but already has plans on attending a TTTT, how is the best way to proceed? Should I bite my tongue and just tell him/her it's great? Should I be honest and risk offending him/her? Should I phrase things a certain way?

I think they are pretty committed to the school, so if they tell me they are FOR SURE going, is there other advice I can give to a TTTTer?

Please, be nice and offer constructive advice! My friends and family don't quite understand my concerns regarding the risk of attending such a law school, so I felt asking the TLS community might prove useful.


I don't understand why you have to hide the gender of your friend?

Edit for boldness


Meh, just trying to keep them anonymous since they didn't ask to be discussed on TLS. If they do come on TLS as per my recommendation, I don't want them stumbling across this in any way and think it's them.

honestabe84
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby honestabe84 » Tue May 25, 2010 9:34 pm

I think you want to prop yourself up and tell your friend how shitty their school is.

If your friend asks you for advice, just say that you know nothing about that school.

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thecilent
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby thecilent » Tue May 25, 2010 9:35 pm

Regionality wrote:
Cilent21 wrote:
Regionality wrote:Hey folks,

So let's keep this one civil. I need advice on the best course of action. I'm going to be seeing an old, close friend for the first time in a while who will be attending a TTTT school. In most likelihood, we will talk about law schools and my friend will ask me for advice. My friend is excited about going to law school, but doesn't have any friends/family in the industry and certainly doesn't hang out on TLS. I think s/he has very little idea about how terrible the legal market is out there, and thinks his/her scholly of 20k/yr is amazing....despite going into more than 100k in debt to attend this school (plus lost opportunity from not working)

If s/he asks me for advice about law school in general, but already has plans on attending a TTTT, how is the best way to proceed? Should I bite my tongue and just tell him/her it's great? Should I be honest and risk offending him/her? Should I phrase things a certain way?

I think they are pretty committed to the school, so if they tell me they are FOR SURE going, is there other advice I can give to a TTTTer?

Please, be nice and offer constructive advice! My friends and family don't quite understand my concerns regarding the risk of attending such a law school, so I felt asking the TLS community might prove useful.


I don't understand why you have to hide the gender of your friend?

Edit for boldness


Meh, just trying to keep them anonymous since they didn't ask to be discussed on TLS. If they do come on TLS as per my recommendation, I don't want them stumbling across this in any way and think it's them.


If they do stumble across this, they probably will know you are referring to them. But okay, okay.. I gotya

Edit: also, I would just congratulate them for getting into law school.. he/she (lol) is old enough to figure out job prospects and expectations on your own; thats not your job. I know what you're talking about though, because I am in the same situation
Last edited by thecilent on Tue May 25, 2010 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Mr. Matlock » Tue May 25, 2010 9:36 pm

When giving advice to people, something to keep in mind:

Make sure you have the plank pulled out of your own eye before you try to remove the sliver from someone else's eye.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue May 25, 2010 9:38 pm

it's a girl

/end of meaningless contribution

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thecilent
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby thecilent » Tue May 25, 2010 9:39 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:it's a girl

/end of meaningless contribution


lol

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Regionality
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Regionality » Tue May 25, 2010 9:40 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:it's a girl

/end of meaningless contribution


Image

Like this? Dunno, not saying! How about this thread doesn't disintegrate into trying to guess their sex?

Edit: For the purposes of simplicity, we can refer to my friend in the masculine. Happy? I flipped a coin.

lawhawk
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby lawhawk » Tue May 25, 2010 9:45 pm

Which school? Not all TTTT's are wastes of money. Just let him know that he is restricted in where he will be able to find a job

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Mr. Pablo » Tue May 25, 2010 9:45 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:When giving advice to people, something to keep in mind:

Make sure you have the plank pulled out of your own eye before you try to remove the sliver from someone else's eye.

This.

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malfurion
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby malfurion » Tue May 25, 2010 10:05 pm

Is it a matter of this person not being able to get into anything better than a TTTT, or a matter of them choosing the TTTT when they had better options?

If the former, I'd probably just be friendly and supportive because they are your friend, they are genuinely happy for their "accomplishment", and you'll succeed in doing nothing but making them feel bad if you aren't happy for them. On the other hand, if they have better options and are choosing the TTTT anyway, I'd feel more comfortable trying to persuade them otherwise, because you can turn that into a constructive discussion ("man, i heard the job prospects are really good at (other-school), how come you like (tttt) better?" etc.). It's a tough situation, cause I know you don't want to assist in your friend's delusion, but they are your friend and need your support.

I think their personality can also come into play here - I've got some friends that I would totally take the "tough love" approach ("wtf are you doing man?") with and I'd hope/expect them to do the same for me. But there are other friends that would just feel hurt if I responded that way.

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bk1
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby bk1 » Tue May 25, 2010 10:35 pm

malfurion wrote:Is it a matter of this person not being able to get into anything better than a TTTT, or a matter of them choosing the TTTT when they had better options?

If the former, I'd probably just be friendly and supportive because they are your friend, they are genuinely happy for their "accomplishment", and you'll succeed in doing nothing but making them feel bad if you aren't happy for them. On the other hand, if they have better options and are choosing the TTTT anyway, I'd feel more comfortable trying to persuade them otherwise, because you can turn that into a constructive discussion ("man, i heard the job prospects are really good at (other-school), how come you like (tttt) better?" etc.). It's a tough situation, cause I know you don't want to assist in your friend's delusion, but they are your friend and need your support.

I think their personality can also come into play here - I've got some friends that I would totally take the "tough love" approach ("wtf are you doing man?") with and I'd hope/expect them to do the same for me. But there are other friends that would just feel hurt if I responded that way.


I do not think that a TTTT is truly someone's "only" option considering that retaking the LSAT and reapplying is always an option.

honestabe84
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby honestabe84 » Wed May 26, 2010 2:28 am

bk1 wrote:
malfurion wrote:Is it a matter of this person not being able to get into anything better than a TTTT, or a matter of them choosing the TTTT when they had better options?

If the former, I'd probably just be friendly and supportive because they are your friend, they are genuinely happy for their "accomplishment", and you'll succeed in doing nothing but making them feel bad if you aren't happy for them. On the other hand, if they have better options and are choosing the TTTT anyway, I'd feel more comfortable trying to persuade them otherwise, because you can turn that into a constructive discussion ("man, i heard the job prospects are really good at (other-school), how come you like (tttt) better?" etc.). It's a tough situation, cause I know you don't want to assist in your friend's delusion, but they are your friend and need your support.

I think their personality can also come into play here - I've got some friends that I would totally take the "tough love" approach ("wtf are you doing man?") with and I'd hope/expect them to do the same for me. But there are other friends that would just feel hurt if I responded that way.


I do not think that a TTTT is truly someone's "only" option considering that retaking the LSAT and reapplying is always an option.


I think all of us on TLS have forgotten that 50% of test takers score below 151. Many of these people have not put in the effort to score in the upper half, but there are still many that simply do not have the aptitude. So you can't just assume that someone can retake and go to a higher ranked school.

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Regionality
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby Regionality » Wed May 26, 2010 3:08 am

honestabe84 wrote:
bk1 wrote:
malfurion wrote:Is it a matter of this person not being able to get into anything better than a TTTT, or a matter of them choosing the TTTT when they had better options?

If the former, I'd probably just be friendly and supportive because they are your friend, they are genuinely happy for their "accomplishment", and you'll succeed in doing nothing but making them feel bad if you aren't happy for them. On the other hand, if they have better options and are choosing the TTTT anyway, I'd feel more comfortable trying to persuade them otherwise, because you can turn that into a constructive discussion ("man, i heard the job prospects are really good at (other-school), how come you like (tttt) better?" etc.). It's a tough situation, cause I know you don't want to assist in your friend's delusion, but they are your friend and need your support.

I think their personality can also come into play here - I've got some friends that I would totally take the "tough love" approach ("wtf are you doing man?") with and I'd hope/expect them to do the same for me. But there are other friends that would just feel hurt if I responded that way.


I do not think that a TTTT is truly someone's "only" option considering that retaking the LSAT and reapplying is always an option.


I think all of us on TLS have forgotten that 50% of test takers score below 151. Many of these people have not put in the effort to score in the upper half, but there are still many that simply do not have the aptitude. So you can't just assume that someone can retake and go to a higher ranked school.


TBH, this in my friend's case :( (unless there is some hidden intellect I never discovered)

Edit: My friend is smart, but I never thought they had a "legal" mind...I always pinned them as more the creative type...in all seriousness.

Edit 2: I know for a fact that he studied his ASS off for the LSAT...probably TOO much. Kaplan class, 5 practice tests / week, constant revision, took the LSAT 3 times, and ALREADY took a year off after applying to restudy for LSAT and apply again...TTTT is the best he can do (with 20k/yr scholly, in all fairness...but still leaving with over 100k in debt)

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bk1
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby bk1 » Wed May 26, 2010 3:27 am

honestabe84 wrote:I think all of us on TLS have forgotten that 50% of test takers score below 151. Many of these people have not put in the effort to score in the upper half, but there are still many that simply do not have the aptitude. So you can't just assume that someone can retake and go to a higher ranked school.


I agree with your counterpoint. Though I do not have stats to back it up, I would still assume that a large majority of people have the possibility of improving and increasing their prospects. I would think that most people who take the LSAT (even those with the aptitude for it) have not maximized their potential score because they have not done all they can to do so, regardless of the individual theoretical maximum for that person's ability.

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby quickquestionthanks » Wed May 26, 2010 3:31 am

I think you're doing the right thing by trying to figure this out in advance, rather than saying nothing or dropping the "noooo!!!" bomb. You should definitely refer them to TLS. That is all. Anything else will simply hurt their feelings and alienate them.

The reality is that even people who come to this site and read story after story have a way of deluding themselves. People remain in this state of denial after months of this. So your lunch conversation will only be painful, the content will be quickly forgotten, and the only thing that will remain is a distaste for you.

Email them the link so you're sure they get here. We'll take care of the rest.

xyzzzzzzzz
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Re: Meeting with a friend going to a TTTT- want ADVICE

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Wed May 26, 2010 4:20 am

..
Last edited by xyzzzzzzzz on Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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