Harvard v. UChicago

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

now off the H waitlist, where to?

UChicago
70
29%
Harvard
174
71%
 
Total votes: 244

miamiman
Posts: 1486
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby miamiman » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:41 pm

Easily the most legendary post of the day.

swimbrad
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:02 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby swimbrad » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:53 pm

yikes... this thread has taken some interesting turns... i'm not really sure what happened there, but i think i'm glad i wasn't watching...

anyways... there seems to be a strong pull to UChi now (except for IAFG... but i think we know why).. i never imagined this decision would be so hard - i mean, a month ago i was set to go to UChi and it was a done deal... damn Harvard

User avatar
dresden doll
Posts: 6802
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:11 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby dresden doll » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:56 pm

Frankly, I don't think this is that hard of a decision. Although I will say I may have thought so a year ago, before I knew 1) how much taking out loans would suck and 2) how much working crazy hours for a firm would bother me.

User avatar
NayBoer
Posts: 1013
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:24 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby NayBoer » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:05 pm

cardnal124 wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Thanks, Kobe. You have ruined blowjobs for me, at least for the next few hours.


... unless of course a hot chick gives you one before that
Well, of course. I'm not crazy.

User avatar
cardnal124
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:31 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby cardnal124 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:06 pm

dresden doll wrote:Frankly, I don't think this is that hard of a decision. Although I will say I may have thought so a year ago, before I knew 1) how much taking out loans would suck and 2) how much working crazy hours for a firm would bother me.


So what are you planning to do with your law degree?

User avatar
dresden doll
Posts: 6802
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:11 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby dresden doll » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:11 pm

cardnal124 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Frankly, I don't think this is that hard of a decision. Although I will say I may have thought so a year ago, before I knew 1) how much taking out loans would suck and 2) how much working crazy hours for a firm would bother me.


So what are you planning to do with your law degree?


Now that I've taken out the loans? Sucking it up and working for a firm anyway.

swimbrad
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:02 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby swimbrad » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:14 am

dresden doll wrote:
cardnal124 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:Frankly, I don't think this is that hard of a decision. Although I will say I may have thought so a year ago, before I knew 1) how much taking out loans would suck and 2) how much working crazy hours for a firm would bother me.


So what are you planning to do with your law degree?


Now that I've taken out the loans? Sucking it up and working for a firm anyway.

I think the difference here is that I want to go into firm work...

User avatar
cardnal124
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:31 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby cardnal124 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:19 am

^ That was kind of what I was trying to get at. If you want to work for a firm, making sure you give yourself the best shot at an elite firm is important, and could outweigh the cost of the extra debt. Although a full ride at Uchi is obviously tempting as well.

I think if you were gonna do PI or government stuff, the choice would definitely be HLS because the loans would never be repaid by you anyway (good old HLS LRAP and IBR).

swimbrad
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:02 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby swimbrad » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:05 am

cardnal124 wrote:^ That was kind of what I was trying to get at. If you want to work for a firm, making sure you give yourself the best shot at an elite firm is important, and could outweigh the cost of the extra debt. Although a full ride at Uchi is obviously tempting as well.

I think if you were gonna do PI or government stuff, the choice would definitely be HLS because the loans would never be repaid by you anyway (good old HLS LRAP and IBR).

There definitely is some serious truth in this... but the difference went from being 60k to a full year's salary (at least by the time you add in 6.2% and 7.8% interest)... but if the Harvard degree ever lands me a job solely because it's Harvard, then the difference will be worth it several fold... look at Elena Kagan - I'll bet that difference is worth several hundred times as she's getting the SCOTUS nod

miamiman
Posts: 1486
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby miamiman » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:08 am

swimbrad wrote:
cardnal124 wrote:^ That was kind of what I was trying to get at. If you want to work for a firm, making sure you give yourself the best shot at an elite firm is important, and could outweigh the cost of the extra debt. Although a full ride at Uchi is obviously tempting as well.

I think if you were gonna do PI or government stuff, the choice would definitely be HLS because the loans would never be repaid by you anyway (good old HLS LRAP and IBR).

There definitely is some serious truth in this... but the difference went from being 60k to a full year's salary (at least by the time you add in 6.2% and 7.8% interest)... but if the Harvard degree ever lands me a job solely because it's Harvard, then the difference will be worth it several fold... look at Elena Kagan - I'll bet that difference is worth several hundred times as she's getting the SCOTUS nod


Oh, you didn't mention you had SCOTUS aspirations. Seems like HYS offers more on that front. Best of luck :wink:

User avatar
cardnal124
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:31 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby cardnal124 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:13 am

swimbrad wrote:
cardnal124 wrote:^ That was kind of what I was trying to get at. If you want to work for a firm, making sure you give yourself the best shot at an elite firm is important, and could outweigh the cost of the extra debt. Although a full ride at Uchi is obviously tempting as well.

I think if you were gonna do PI or government stuff, the choice would definitely be HLS because the loans would never be repaid by you anyway (good old HLS LRAP and IBR).

There definitely is some serious truth in this... but the difference went from being 60k to a full year's salary (at least by the time you add in 6.2% and 7.8% interest)... but if the Harvard degree ever lands me a job solely because it's Harvard, then the difference will be worth it several fold... look at Elena Kagan - I'll bet that difference is worth several hundred times as she's getting the SCOTUS nod


Ya, the full-ride is a mind-fuck, since BigLaw chances from Uchi are only slightly worse than from HLS. But how could you pass up a chance to be a fellow alumni of Barry and Michelle?

swimbrad
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:02 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby swimbrad » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:13 am

miamiman wrote:
swimbrad wrote:
cardnal124 wrote:^ That was kind of what I was trying to get at. If you want to work for a firm, making sure you give yourself the best shot at an elite firm is important, and could outweigh the cost of the extra debt. Although a full ride at Uchi is obviously tempting as well.

I think if you were gonna do PI or government stuff, the choice would definitely be HLS because the loans would never be repaid by you anyway (good old HLS LRAP and IBR).

There definitely is some serious truth in this... but the difference went from being 60k to a full year's salary (at least by the time you add in 6.2% and 7.8% interest)... but if the Harvard degree ever lands me a job solely because it's Harvard, then the difference will be worth it several fold... look at Elena Kagan - I'll bet that difference is worth several hundred times as she's getting the SCOTUS nod


Oh, you didn't mention you had SCOTUS aspirations. Seems like HYS offers more on that front. Best of luck :wink:

no no... i don't, but any means - i was just using her as an example

swimbrad
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:02 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby swimbrad » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:13 am

cardnal124 wrote:
swimbrad wrote:
cardnal124 wrote:^ That was kind of what I was trying to get at. If you want to work for a firm, making sure you give yourself the best shot at an elite firm is important, and could outweigh the cost of the extra debt. Although a full ride at Uchi is obviously tempting as well.

I think if you were gonna do PI or government stuff, the choice would definitely be HLS because the loans would never be repaid by you anyway (good old HLS LRAP and IBR).

There definitely is some serious truth in this... but the difference went from being 60k to a full year's salary (at least by the time you add in 6.2% and 7.8% interest)... but if the Harvard degree ever lands me a job solely because it's Harvard, then the difference will be worth it several fold... look at Elena Kagan - I'll bet that difference is worth several hundred times as she's getting the SCOTUS nod


Ya, the full-ride is a mind-fuck, since BigLaw chances from Uchi are only slightly worse than from HLS. But how could you pass up a chance to be a fellow alumni of Barry and Michelle?

ol' barry - yea... this whole thing has my mind spinning in circles... it makes getting work done next to impossible

User avatar
cardnal124
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:31 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby cardnal124 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:26 am

swimbrad wrote:ol' barry - yea... this whole thing has my mind spinning in circles... it makes getting work done next to impossible


What work? You finally get your scores released?

IMHO, I think the extra money from UChi (assuming minimal $ from HLS) makes it worth going there for someone with law firm aspirations. You'll still have COL debt, but the 120-135k you save would end up being over a grand a month for 15 years at 6.8% or over 2.3k / month for 5 years. That would buy a lot of beer/coke.

The thing that makes it difficult is that it is HLS. But I don't know if the slight boost from that would be worth an extra 120k.

miamiman
Posts: 1486
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby miamiman » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:29 am

Stop overanalyzing this. If you were staring down Cornell at two-thirds scholly vs. Chicago with 10k, I could understand the scrutiny. But you're in a no-lose situation. You will almost assuredly have great firm options out of either of these schools; choose the one you felt most positively about. Period.

This is a problem of plenty. Even ITE.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:34 am

I think the only hitch here is that it is Harvard. UChi seems like the better choice financially, without a doubt. But I know it must be incredibly difficult passing up the opportunity to add the prestige of a Harvard degree to your resume.

Either way, you're in a great position.

User avatar
mallard
Posts: 1092
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:45 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby mallard » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:35 am

If you want to go into firm work, you take the money here.

miamiman
Posts: 1486
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby miamiman » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:39 am

mallard wrote:If you want to go into firm work, you take the money here.


Describe a scenario in which you'd advise going to HLS

User avatar
doyleoil
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:59 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby doyleoil » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:39 am

cardnal124 wrote:for someone with law firm aspirations


Yeah but 0L's tend to think only in terms of "breaking into biglaw." There are two problems with that shortsightedness.

First, all "biglaw" is not created equal. Quality of firm, firm location, and the type of work you get to do all SHOULD mean something to someone who aspires to work in a firm. But 0L's usually just completely ignore all of that. Harvard doesn't open any doors that U. Chicago won't. But it certainly gives you a little more margin for error. You could theoretically only land right on the "top 1/3" line in every class at Harvard and have all H's on your transcript. At that point I think it's undeniable that more doors will be open to you than to someone with a 178 average at Chicago (which is probably around top 1/3-ish).

Second, "breaking in" is not the end of the game. Whether you're making a career at a firm or lateraling down the line, school name will mean something. People assume that after a couple years, your school name simply disappears. It's true that you still have to do great work to make partner (or lateral to some cushy sweet in-house or gov't gig). But school name will not be irrelevant, especially when it's the big H we're talking about.

User avatar
doyleoil
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:59 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby doyleoil » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:39 am

mallard wrote:If you want to go into firm work, you take the money here.


I'm not entirely convinced of this, mall - see above.

User avatar
mallard
Posts: 1092
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:45 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby mallard » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:45 am

I don't think school name has any particular effect on partnership or lateral prospects. Grades almost certainly don't. I guess there's a slight chance that the money lost to loans could be made up by getting to a firm with greater PPP.

miamiman
Posts: 1486
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:55 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby miamiman » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:47 am

doyleoil wrote:
cardnal124 wrote:for someone with law firm aspirations



First, all "biglaw" is not created equal. Quality of firm, firm location, and the type of work you get to do all SHOULD mean something to someone who aspires to work in a firm. But 0L's usually just completely ignore all of that. Harvard doesn't open any doors that U. Chicago won't. But it certainly gives you a little more margin for error. You could theoretically only land right on the "top 1/3" line in every class at Harvard and have all H's on your transcript. At that point I think it's undeniable that more doors will be open to you than to someone with a 178 average at Chicago (which is probably around top 1/3-ish).



This is true but right now I think it's fair to place greater emphasis upon simply breaking-in; a few years ago, a bigfirm offer would have been presumptive at either of these schools. The same certainly can't be said now. If anything, I think HLS is more attractive in light of that fact, not because of the more prestigious firm opportunities you might get by virtue of H vs. Chi.

Is the comparatively wider margin of error at H worth 120k? I don't think so. Is it worth it to someone who is V10 or bust? That's a call only OP can make.

swimbrad
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:02 am

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby swimbrad » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:48 am

doyleoil wrote:
cardnal124 wrote:for someone with law firm aspirations


Yeah but 0L's tend to think only in terms of "breaking into biglaw." There are two problems with that shortsightedness.

First, all "biglaw" is not created equal. Quality of firm, firm location, and the type of work you get to do all SHOULD mean something to someone who aspires to work in a firm. But 0L's usually just completely ignore all of that. Harvard doesn't open any doors that U. Chicago won't. But it certainly gives you a little more margin for error. You could theoretically only land right on the "top 1/3" line in every class at Harvard and have all H's on your transcript. At that point I think it's undeniable that more doors will be open to you than to someone with a 178 average at Chicago (which is probably around top 1/3-ish).

Second, "breaking in" is not the end of the game. Whether you're making a career at a firm or lateraling down the line, school name will mean something. People assume that after a couple years, your school name simply disappears. It's true that you still have to do great work to make partner (or lateral to some cushy sweet in-house or gov't gig). But school name will not be irrelevant, especially when it's the big H we're talking about.

I'm sorta leaning/believing this school of thought... though I have no real idea about it... it seem as though there is a greater margin for error at Harvard while keeping the doors to the V5 open..

and yes, I realize these are two awesome options, sorry if I'm coming off as an ass about it - I just never had any inkling of a thought that these would be my choices... It was pretty easy to turn down $60k w/o blinking too much...but now it's turn down 135k or turn down Harvard... which is harder than I thought it would be

User avatar
doyleoil
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:59 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby doyleoil » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:49 am

mallard wrote:I don't think school name has any particular effect on partnership or lateral prospects. Grades almost certainly don't.


Didn't say a thing about grades. I just don't think the rough proxies ever really completely disappear (even if they become less powerful).

User avatar
doyleoil
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:59 pm

Re: Harvard v. UChicago

Postby doyleoil » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:54 am

miamiman wrote: V10 or bust?


Higher offer rates.
Fewer deferrals.
Less lathaming.

All of it kinda converges to make the truly quality firms look better than they used to, eh?




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: carlos_danger, studyingeveryday and 4 guests