Top Law Schools

ZachOda wrote:Just saw the USNews 2011 rankings for law schools, and URichmond and UOregon are in the 80's. Are they really that bad of schools or is there something else to it? As is stands right now I don't want to apply anyplace below 35 in ranking but those two looked good on paper until I actually referenced the new list. Any advice on them would help, thanks

It's all relative brah. If you want to practice biglaw in DC then yeah, Oregon's ranking is pretty legit. But if you want to stay in Portland/Seattle, pay cheap tuition + COL for three years and don't mind competing with UW grads for the prestigious jobs then Oregon is #1 according to USNews 2011 - infinity

Blindmelon wrote:

KibblesAndVick wrote:This is an anecdote but perhaps it will be of some use. I know two people who went to URichmond. They both talk shit on the school and how it sucks. They complain that their classmates were terrible and that it was a poor choice to pay sticker. Despite this one landed a government gig and the other works for a small firm, both in DC. But, they both went to school before the crash.

Ugh more TLS elitism. I knew of someone who went to URichmond and dropped out, but landed a SICK job at his dad's company. So obviously some people make $$$$ out of URichmond. Imagine how much he would have made if he graduated???

The professors are fantastic and they're the only school out there (other than UCI) that actually cares about students and learning (so even if you're unemployed, at least you're enriched as a human being).

You seem really sure about this, yet according to your profile didn't apply to Richmond. I had a fantastic experience with UR, yet decided not to go. Do you have some tie or inside knowledge? While the UR does well in Richmond and VA for a school of it's ranking this seems a little heavy handed. Not to attack you but I would put more stock in the stories about the 2 people paying sticker than the guy who'd dad hired him after dropping out...that seems irrelevant. I think the school is underrated, but stuck in a state with lots of competition.

GordonBombay wrote:

Blindmelon wrote:

KibblesAndVick wrote:This is an anecdote but perhaps it will be of some use. I know two people who went to URichmond. They both talk shit on the school and how it sucks. They complain that their classmates were terrible and that it was a poor choice to pay sticker. Despite this one landed a government gig and the other works for a small firm, both in DC. But, they both went to school before the crash.

Ugh more TLS elitism. I knew of someone who went to URichmond and dropped out, but landed a SICK job at his dad's company. So obviously some people make $$$$ out of URichmond. Imagine how much he would have made if he graduated???

The professors are fantastic and they're the only school out there (other than UCI) that actually cares about students and learning (so even if you're unemployed, at least you're enriched as a human being).

You seem really sure about this, yet according to your profile didn't apply to Richmond. I had a fantastic experience with UR, yet decided not to go. Do you have some tie or inside knowledge? While the UR does well in Richmond and VA for a school of it's ranking this seems a little heavy handed. Not to attack you but I would put more stock in the stories about the 2 people paying sticker than the guy who'd dad hired him after dropping out...that seems irrelevant. I think the school is underrated, but stuck in a state with lots of competition.

God damn son, what part of his post sounded serious.

Sias wrote:

ZachOda wrote:Just saw the USNews 2011 rankings for law schools, and URichmond and UOregon are in the 80's. Are they really that bad of schools or is there something else to it? As is stands right now I don't want to apply anyplace below 35 in ranking but those two looked good on paper until I actually referenced the new list. Any advice on them would help, thanks

It's all relative brah. If you want to practice biglaw in DC then yeah, Oregon's ranking is pretty legit. But if you want to stay in Portland/Seattle, pay cheap tuition + COL for three years and don't mind competing with UW grads for the prestigious jobs then Oregon is #1 according to USNews 2011 - infinity

Yep. It's a good regional school, the people there are good, and Eugene is a fun place to be for three years. Good regional schools are the same across the country, pretty much, if you want to practice in that area. I go to a similar school in the middle of the country, and some people came here with no aspirations to work in the region, and only wanted to get back to the East Coast. That doesn't make sense to me, but some people can make it work.

Blindmelon wrote:

KibblesAndVick wrote:This is an anecdote but perhaps it will be of some use. I know two people who went to URichmond. They both talk shit on the school and how it sucks. They complain that their classmates were terrible and that it was a poor choice to pay sticker. Despite this one landed a government gig and the other works for a small firm, both in DC. But, they both went to school before the crash.

Ugh more TLS elitism. I knew of someone who went to URichmond and dropped out, but landed a SICK job at his dad's company. So obviously some people make $$$$ out of URichmond. Imagine how much he would have made if he graduated???

The professors are fantastic and they're the only school out there (other than UCI) that actually cares about students and learning (so even if you're unemployed, at least you're enriched as a human being).

You forgot something: their moot court team placed third last year, ahead of Harvard and Yale and tied with Stanford.

Sometimes I question my abilities irt law school, especially compared to my classmates.....then I see some of the posts on TLS from people, even those that will be attending a t14, and I am VERY reassured. How the HELL could you guys miss the sarcasm in those other posts? I mean, you would have to be an absolute social mutant and completely clueless/void of anything resembling a sense of humor to not pick up on the OBVIOUS sarcasm in the previous threads. I feel bad for others that have to be around you irl.....geesh.

Desert Fox wrote:

GordonBombay wrote:

Blindmelon wrote:

KibblesAndVick wrote:This is an anecdote but perhaps it will be of some use. I know two people who went to URichmond. They both talk shit on the school and how it sucks. They complain that their classmates were terrible and that it was a poor choice to pay sticker. Despite this one landed a government gig and the other works for a small firm, both in DC. But, they both went to school before the crash.

Ugh more TLS elitism. I knew of someone who went to URichmond and dropped out, but landed a SICK job at his dad's company. So obviously some people make $$$$ out of URichmond. Imagine how much he would have made if he graduated???

The professors are fantastic and they're the only school out there (other than UCI) that actually cares about students and learning (so even if you're unemployed, at least you're enriched as a human being).

You seem really sure about this, yet according to your profile didn't apply to Richmond. I had a fantastic experience with UR, yet decided not to go. Do you have some tie or inside knowledge? While the UR does well in Richmond and VA for a school of it's ranking this seems a little heavy handed. Not to attack you but I would put more stock in the stories about the 2 people paying sticker than the guy who'd dad hired him after dropping out...that seems irrelevant. I think the school is underrated, but stuck in a state with lots of competition.

God damn son, what part of his post sounded serious.

Fair enough, totally whiffed on the sarcasm. For the slinky, relax buddy.

Sias wrote:

ZachOda wrote:Just saw the USNews 2011 rankings for law schools, and URichmond and UOregon are in the 80's. Are they really that bad of schools or is there something else to it? As is stands right now I don't want to apply anyplace below 35 in ranking but those two looked good on paper until I actually referenced the new list. Any advice on them would help, thanks

It's all relative brah. If you want to practice biglaw in DC then yeah, Oregon's ranking is pretty legit. But if you want to stay in Portland/Seattle, pay cheap tuition + COL for three years and don't mind competing with UW grads for the prestigious jobs then Oregon is #1 according to USNews 2011 - infinity

I'll also add that not all regional schools are equal, despite being ranked similarly:

Richmond is ranked #86, costs around 50k a year and places in the South Atlantic region and competes with the following schools: GULC, GW, American, UVA, UNC, Wake, Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt, Alabama, W&M, W&L, and all the other regionals. If you're looking at a major market such as DC, then Richmond is competing with all of these schools + the T13.

This means that Richmond grads graduate with ~150k in debt and are restricted to a market with extreme competition. Even if you are the top of your class you will still be competing with the top 10% of about 15 other reputable schools in the region. Those numbers add up fast. Some people will go so far as to say that this situation upon graduation is tantamount to "shit job prospects," and they might even be right, but I'm pretty equitable so I'll just say that most Richmond grads probably face an uphill battle looking for work in a saturated and competitive market.

Oregon, on the other hand, is ranked #80 and costs around 35k a year and places in the Pacific Northwest competing with UW, L&C, Seattle U, Gonzaga, and Willimette.

An Oregon grad will graduate with ~105k in debt and is looking at being about the 3rd best school in the region, though some will argue it places equally well as L&C. This is a pretty good situation, as the competition can probably be said to be in check if you are around the top of your class. This results in good prospects for most and less debt for all--always a good thing in an uncertain economy.

It's instances like this--comparing schools such as these--that the rankings are even more meaningless than usual.

Sias wrote: Richmond is ranked #86, costs around 50k a year and places in the South Atlantic region and competes with the following schools: GULC, GW, American, UVA, UNC, Wake, Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt, Alabama, W&M, W&L, and all the other regionals. If you're looking at a major market such as DC, then Richmond is competing with all of these schools + the T13.

This means that Richmond grads graduate with ~150k in debt and are restricted to a market with extreme competition. Even if you are the top of your class you will still be competing with the top 10% of about 15 other reputable schools in the region. Those numbers add up fast. Some people will go so far as to say that this situation upon graduation is tantamount to "shit job prospects," and they might even be right, but I'm pretty equitable so I'll just say that most Richmond grads probably face an uphill battle looking for work in a saturated and competitive market.

Oregon, on the other hand, is ranked #80 and costs around 35k a year and places in the Pacific Northwest competing with UW, L&C, Seattle U, Gonzaga, and Willimette.

An Oregon grad will graduate with ~105k in debt and is looking at being about the 3rd best school in the region, though some will argue it places equally well as L&C. This is a pretty good situation, as the competition can probably be said to be in check if you are around the top of your class. This results in good prospects for most and less debt for all--always a good thing in an uncertain economy.

It's instances like this--comparing schools such as these--that the rankings are even more meaningless than usual.

Yeah, but you have to consider demand as well as supply. There are way less jobs available in WA/OR than there are in DC/VA/etc., so it effectively evens out. If it didn't even out, then you would expect Oregon's employment stats to look way better than Richmond's, but they don't. Your employment prospects are pretty similar at both schools, so the choice really comes down to which location you prefer and whether those prospects make it worth going to law school for you personally.

edit: just checked and actually it looks like Richmond's employment prospects are significantly better than Oregon's (or at least they were pre-ITE), despite the strong competition.

malfurion wrote:

Sias wrote: Richmond is ranked #86, costs around 50k a year and places in the South Atlantic region and competes with the following schools: GULC, GW, American, UVA, UNC, Wake, Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt, Alabama, W&M, W&L, and all the other regionals. If you're looking at a major market such as DC, then Richmond is competing with all of these schools + the T13.

This means that Richmond grads graduate with ~150k in debt and are restricted to a market with extreme competition. Even if you are the top of your class you will still be competing with the top 10% of about 15 other reputable schools in the region. Those numbers add up fast. Some people will go so far as to say that this situation upon graduation is tantamount to "shit job prospects," and they might even be right, but I'm pretty equitable so I'll just say that most Richmond grads probably face an uphill battle looking for work in a saturated and competitive market.

Oregon, on the other hand, is ranked #80 and costs around 35k a year and places in the Pacific Northwest competing with UW, L&C, Seattle U, Gonzaga, and Willimette.

An Oregon grad will graduate with ~105k in debt and is looking at being about the 3rd best school in the region, though some will argue it places equally well as L&C. This is a pretty good situation, as the competition can probably be said to be in check if you are around the top of your class. This results in good prospects for most and less debt for all--always a good thing in an uncertain economy.

It's instances like this--comparing schools such as these--that the rankings are even more meaningless than usual.

Yeah, but you have to consider demand as well as supply. There are way less jobs available in WA/OR than there are in DC/VA/etc., so it effectively evens out. If it didn't even out, then you would expect Oregon's employment stats to look way better than Richmond's, but they don't. Your employment prospects are pretty similar at both schools, so the choice really comes down to which location you prefer and whether those prospects make it worth going to law school for you personally.

edit: just checked and actually it looks like Richmond's employment prospects are significantly better than Oregon's (or at least they were pre-ITE), despite the strong competition.

I dunno, brah. It might even out at a certain point, but the top 10% at UofO definitely has better prospects than the top 10% at Richmond.

Furthermore, everybody knows that employment statistics are pure fabrication. No point bringing phantasmal guns to a knife fight, brah.

TTI: it's probably because Richmond is PWA, but you still have a chance

Tautology wrote:

zozin wrote:

Blindmelon wrote:

KibblesAndVick wrote:This is an anecdote but perhaps it will be of some use. I know two people who went to URichmond. They both talk shit on the school and how it sucks. They complain that their classmates were terrible and that it was a poor choice to pay sticker. Despite this one landed a government gig and the other works for a small firm, both in DC. But, they both went to school before the crash.

Ugh more TLS elitism. I knew of someone who went to URichmond and dropped out, but landed a SICK job at his dad's company. So obviously some people make $$$$ out of URichmond. Imagine how much he would have made if he graduated???

The professors are fantastic and they're the only school out there (other than UCI) that actually cares about students and learning (so even if you're unemployed, at least you're enriched as a human being).

That's a terrible example. Most people don't have parents or relatives with businesses that can hire them as a fallback.

I love how the BP mafia shows up whenever a member begins an argument.

You may have forgotten to turn on your sarcasm meter.

Tautology, you're back! This time with a picture of a cute polar bear! And you haven't destroyed the fun of this thread yet!

Given the economy, you should only attend a low ranked law school if you're going for very little money or being a lawyer is the only thing you can do with your life (which isn't true for anyone).

oops

A'nold wrote:

Blindmelon wrote:

KibblesAndVick wrote:This is an anecdote but perhaps it will be of some use. I know two people who went to URichmond. They both talk shit on the school and how it sucks. They complain that their classmates were terrible and that it was a poor choice to pay sticker. Despite this one landed a government gig and the other works for a small firm, both in DC. But, they both went to school before the crash.

Ugh more TLS elitism. I knew of someone who went to URichmond and dropped out, but landed a SICK job at his dad's company. So obviously some people make $$$$ out of URichmond. Imagine how much he would have made if he graduated???

The professors are fantastic and they're the only school out there (other than UCI) that actually cares about students and learning (so even if you're unemployed, at least you're enriched as a human being).

You forgot something: their moot court team placed third last year, ahead of Harvard and Yale and tied with Stanford.

True! I heard that Nova Southeastern beat Harvard. I'm thinking of throwing a transfer app in there b/c of their moot specialty!