Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

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Fiction
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Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby Fiction » Wed May 12, 2010 4:02 pm

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Case2L
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby Case2L » Wed May 12, 2010 5:34 pm

Any chance of in-state @ IUB? Unless Case is substantially cheaper, you should probably go with the higher ranked school.

Case2L
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby Case2L » Wed May 12, 2010 5:36 pm

One more thing - contact Case & see if they'll up their offer in light of this new development.

Fiction
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby Fiction » Wed May 12, 2010 5:50 pm

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fornutob
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby fornutob » Wed May 12, 2010 5:52 pm

How do you ask a school to up their offer? Email? Phone and say "who can I talk to about my scholarship award?!" I just don't know how to do it tactfully...what are you going to say?who do you ask to speak to? (or to whom do you ask to speak, for you grammar freaks out there) :)

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JCougar
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby JCougar » Wed May 12, 2010 6:40 pm

If I were you I would take the money at Case. First of all, Indiana is ranked 27, not 23. Second of all, Indiana is severely overrated at 27. It belongs somewhere in the mid-40s if you take into account placement.

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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby Fiction » Wed May 12, 2010 9:50 pm

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traehekat
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby traehekat » Wed May 12, 2010 10:44 pm

Fiction wrote:
JCougar wrote:If I were you I would take the money at Case. First of all, Indiana is ranked 27, not 23. Second of all, Indiana is severely overrated at 27. It belongs somewhere in the mid-40s if you take into account placement.


The only thing you think that makes it overrated is placement?

Would others agree on the poor placement?


Can't speak much to IUB's placement (other than they don't even rank in the top 50 in regards to NLJ 250 placement, meaning they place at most 13.1% of their graduates into large firms), but I will say that placement is like, the number one thing to consider in choosing a law school outside of cost and region. So, if in fact IUB's placement isn't on par with other T30-35 schools, then yes they are overrated. I mean, that is the point of going to law school right? To get placed... in a job.

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JCougar
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby JCougar » Wed May 12, 2010 11:05 pm

Fiction wrote:
JCougar wrote:If I were you I would take the money at Case. First of all, Indiana is ranked 27, not 23. Second of all, Indiana is severely overrated at 27. It belongs somewhere in the mid-40s if you take into account placement.


The only thing you think that makes it overrated is placement?

Would others agree on the poor placement?


What trahekat said.

Indiana doesn't even place in the top 50 when it comes to NLJ 250 placement, which is, given certain caveats, probably a better measure of a school's quality than anything else, IMHO. Nothing is a perfect measure, but US News' formula is pretty flawed itself for a number of reasons, and Indiana has found some ways to exploit those flaws and game the rankings. When you go to law school, the only outcome that varies enough between schools to differentiate them from each other is placement. Every law school will teach you basically the same stuff, and even a lot professors from TTT law schools are Harvard and Yale graduates that graduated at the top of their class, so it's not like the professors differ all that much. So the next thing that matters most is placement. US News ranking should be considered, as it (whether justifiably or not) many times does eventually feed into a school's overall reputation, but it's not the end-all, be-all measure of a school's quality. What would seem to matter most is the kind of jobs a school can get you.

For what you seem to want to do (JAG), location of the school doesn't seem as important, so there's not really a convincing reason for you to choose IU-B for over Case in that regard. I would take the money, but, like others have said, I would see if either Case or IU-B will give you even more money. I know a bunch of people this year who have been successful at negotiating more scholarship money from Case. Don't know what the policy is for IU-B.

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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby creamedcats » Wed May 12, 2010 11:18 pm

JCougar wrote:If I were you I would take the money at Case. First of all, Indiana is ranked 27, not 23. Second of all, Indiana is severely overrated at 27. It belongs somewhere in the mid-40s if you take into account placement.


Placements...they're almost clones, with the difference being Chicago is a strong secondary big market for IU while Case is more spread out with small but significant contingents in NYC and DC and a lot of people doing non-firm work in DC, but has a slightly larger/stronger captive market in Cleveland, and less to compete with in that market (Ohio State doesn't send a lot to. Neither school is going to trap you in its primary market if you manage to graduate in the top half, depending strongly on what you want to do with your degree. Chances at biglaw are roughly equal, IU places a little better but less of the class goes into private practice overall. I (http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf)

Bloomington is a college town, Cleveland is not. Cleveland has big city stuff, Bloomington doesn't, take your pick. 45k is significant but it's not so huge that you should make a decision you'd be very uncomfortable with otherwise. If you like Case, go to Case and enjoy a bit of financial relief.

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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby Fiction » Wed May 12, 2010 11:23 pm

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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby JCougar » Wed May 12, 2010 11:30 pm

Fiction wrote:I know I'm not supposed to be thinking about this, but...how would the differences in rankings affect my aspirations of transferring to Chicago/T14?


I don't know much about transferring, but I'm guessing that transferring to Chicago from one of those schools would require at least top 5% of your class at either one. I'm sure there's people on here who can give you a more precise answer, though.

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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby Fiction » Wed May 12, 2010 11:35 pm

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creamedcats
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby creamedcats » Wed May 12, 2010 11:56 pm

What little info we have from transferapps on yahoo (and general principle) suggests that it's almost always easier to transfer from a higher ranked school. IU-B is a little more selective so it may be slightly harder to end up in the top 10-15%. I guess you could get into Georgetown's huge transfer class with a slightly lower ranking than that, but there's no guarantee. More people tend to transfer from Case, I don't know how that helps/hurts your odds, though. Transferring to Chicago? Hard anywhere.

And the rankings/placements only matter in the sense that certain aspects of that apply to you. Forget the NLJ stuff I cited, I didn't see you want to be JAG. IU-B isn't ranked 14 points higher entirely by accident, the question is, are the reasons it's ranked higher (selectivity, faculty resources, slightly better rep) worth 45k to you? Are you okay with the location? If yes to both...your decision is pretty clear. I'd give you JAG stats if I knew anywhere to find them. NALP says 2.7% Military from Case, 4% from IU-B. Who knows how much that shifts year to year.

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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby JCougar » Thu May 13, 2010 12:39 am

Fiction wrote:God dammit...I spend all this fucking time focusing on getting placed in the highest ranked school possible after everyone talks about T1, T2, T14, and what have you and now the US News rankings don't matter it is the placement rankings. Ugh.


FWIW, IU-B is a slightly better school, and I would definitely choose it if the money were equal, but it's not. $45K is a lot of money -- that's a good 3-4 extra years at least of paying off debt. You'll have to decide whether IU-B gives you enough of a leg up to justify the extra cost. I'm obviously not an oracle of infinite wisdom, but from my perspective, I'd take the money if it involves those two schools.

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traehekat
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby traehekat » Thu May 13, 2010 3:22 am

Fiction wrote:God dammit...I spend all this fucking time focusing on getting placed in the highest ranked school possible after everyone talks about T1, T2, T14, and what have you and now the US News rankings don't matter it is the placement rankings. Ugh.


Well, I mean, the placement record of a school is generally reflective of the rank. The better the school is ranked, the better the job prospects, generally. 13 of the T14 (in US News rankings) are in the T14 of job prospects (in NLJ 250 placement, at least). It just so happens that IUB is one of those schools whose job prospects don't fit in with their rank (at least in the last couple years - most people think IUB was way over ranked at 23, and still so at 27).

IUB isn't a bad school by any means, and neither is Case. With that said, if there is a difference of more than $25,000 between IUB and Case, I would take Case. I don't know if you have a scholarship, but in this economy I would be hesitant to go to IUB out of state (since you can't really gain resident tuition at any point).

Good luck with your decision!

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TTH
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby TTH » Thu May 13, 2010 9:24 am

Case.

It's cheaper. Ohio is better. Cleveland is charming. There's a pretty large AFJAG component in-state.

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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby yabbadabbado » Thu May 13, 2010 9:47 am

I don't think either school is worth paying for at the price you'd have to pay. Between the two, I'd choose Case because 1) it's cheaper, and 2) going to school in a city rather than a college town will give you more opportunity to work and network for jobs during 2L and 3L. Good to have some sort of backup strategy in case JAG doesn't work out.

I would try to get Case increase the $ they are giving you.

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traehekat
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby traehekat » Thu May 13, 2010 11:20 am

TTH wrote:Cleveland is charming.


Not according to Joakim Noah.

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danquayle
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby danquayle » Thu May 13, 2010 4:08 pm

creamedcats wrote:What little info we have from transferapps on yahoo (and general principle) suggests that it's almost always easier to transfer from a higher ranked school. IU-B is a little more selective so it may be slightly harder to end up in the top 10-15%. I guess you could get into Georgetown's huge transfer class with a slightly lower ranking than that, but there's no guarantee. More people tend to transfer from Case, I don't know how that helps/hurts your odds, though. Transferring to Chicago? Hard anywhere.

And the rankings/placements only matter in the sense that certain aspects of that apply to you. Forget the NLJ stuff I cited, I didn't see you want to be JAG. IU-B isn't ranked 14 points higher entirely by accident, the question is, are the reasons it's ranked higher (selectivity, faculty resources, slightly better rep) worth 45k to you? Are you okay with the location? If yes to both...your decision is pretty clear. I'd give you JAG stats if I knew anywhere to find them. NALP says 2.7% Military from Case, 4% from IU-B. Who knows how much that shifts year to year.


Well, its median LSAT is 6 points higher and its average GPA is .4 higher... so its quite a bit more selective. That being said, there's no excuse for the poor placement stats, though I'd like to see a longer term before putting too much stock into it. Its just one year. You should definitely try to leverage more money out of both Case and IU. Sometimes money frees up this late in the year as people start getting off waitlists elsewhere.
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nick637
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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby nick637 » Thu May 13, 2010 4:12 pm

It should be east for you to get case to up your scholly. I did it with ONLY an acceptance to iu Indy.

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Re: Case Western+15k vs. IU-Bloomington@sticker

Postby Rawlsian » Thu May 13, 2010 4:18 pm

Not sure if you've already looked through this thread, but it's a great place to find out about JAG.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31543
Perhaps you could ask your question there.




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