Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which would you pick, Hastings or W&M?

Poll ended at Wed May 19, 2010 2:34 pm

UC Hastings
24
36%
William and Mary (let us assume that both SF and DC are equally appealing for places to study and practice)
43
64%
 
Total votes: 67

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tommytahoe
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Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Wed May 12, 2010 2:34 pm

So, pretend that you would be exactly equally OK practicing law in DC as you would be in SF/Bay Area.
W&M is cheaper, but may mean slightly more difficulty getting work in DC. Hastings, by comparison, is one block from the State Supreme Court, but comes with a hefty pricetag.
Opinions and rationales are welcome.

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tommytahoe
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Wed May 12, 2010 7:18 pm

Wow, overwhelming response pro-Hastings.

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tommytahoe
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Wed May 12, 2010 7:20 pm

I take that back... there were 4 votes! Unrepresentative sample! LoL

mhernton
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby mhernton » Wed May 12, 2010 7:25 pm

W&M hands down. I'll be at W&M this fall, and live in CA now. The State finances are so screwed up that the price tag to go to law school will increase significantly each year you would be there. I'd also say that your premise about working in DC as a W&M student vis a vis a Hastings student is incorrect.

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tommytahoe
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Wed May 12, 2010 7:30 pm

mhernton wrote:I'd also say that your premise about working in DC as a W&M student vis a vis a Hastings student is incorrect.

Do tell. How so?

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bk1
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby bk1 » Wed May 12, 2010 7:43 pm

Looking at various data for the past years for NLJ250, W&M has the edge (20-22%) vs Hastings (14-16%). It also seems that W&M does better for clerkships as well.

I would say that your job prospects out of W&M may be a bit better than out of Hastings. And the sky is falling in CA.

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tommytahoe
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Wed May 12, 2010 8:26 pm

bk1 wrote:Looking at various data for the past years for NLJ250, W&M has the edge (20-22%) vs Hastings (14-16%). It also seems that W&M does better for clerkships as well.

I would say that your job prospects out of W&M may be a bit better than out of Hastings. And the sky is falling in CA.


Interesting. Yes, the sky is in many ways falling, and W&M does have that clerkship rep.
There's also the "city life" vs. "country life" thing. Of course, part of the value of the "city life" perspective is that the city is SF. While this is clearly a major draw, my model/poll has as its assumption that either DC or SF are equally appealing places to practice. Big assumption, but forces me to address the virtues of curriculum, professors, job placement, students, clinical opportunities, and of course COST. (those being my main priorities). So therefore, being in the city becomes valuable only insofar as it involves large buildings and homeless people LoL

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Borhas
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby Borhas » Wed May 12, 2010 9:11 pm

living in VA outside of NoVa or Charlottesville is dirt cheap

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wadeny
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby wadeny » Wed May 12, 2010 9:13 pm

Go with W&M. It's much, much cheaper (even for non-residents) and can carry you well in both DC and the Mid Atlantic. SF is a great city, but Hastings is just too expensive if you ask me.

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tommytahoe
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Wed May 12, 2010 9:20 pm

Oh, I should say, for accuracy's sake, that I am a CA resident, and (of course) not a VA resident.

fwaam
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby fwaam » Wed May 12, 2010 9:32 pm

Borhas wrote:living in VA outside of NoVa or Charlottesville is dirt cheap


Williamsburg is surprisingly expensive for its size and location. You can't get a decent one-bedroom there for less than $1000/month; whereas in Charlottesville you can get one for $700-800, maybe less.

I still say W&M though.

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Borhas
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby Borhas » Wed May 12, 2010 9:36 pm

fwaam wrote:
Borhas wrote:living in VA outside of NoVa or Charlottesville is dirt cheap


Williamsburg is surprisingly expensive for its size and location. You can't get a decent one-bedroom there for less than $1000/month;

wtf, after looking up some places that seems to be correct

that rivals SF prices (well, almost)

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tommytahoe
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Wed May 12, 2010 10:26 pm

Borhas wrote:
fwaam wrote:
Borhas wrote:living in VA outside of NoVa or Charlottesville is dirt cheap


Williamsburg is surprisingly expensive for its size and location. You can't get a decent one-bedroom there for less than $1000/month;

wtf, after looking up some places that seems to be correct

that rivals SF prices (well, almost)


Yeah, that is surprising. But, wherever I move, I'm probably going to try to do a shared 2BR with somebody if I can. Always a gamble, but I've been doing that for years, and it's the difference of hundreds of dollars, and with 2BR it's not like the place is non-stop traffic either.

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tommytahoe
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Thu May 13, 2010 6:14 pm

Thanks for all the input, everybody. I see how wanting to be in one area (DC or SF) would tilt the scales either way. Take away the preference, and the people (at least, 46 of them) have spoken.
I'm most interested in comparing programs, cost, and QOL...

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bk1
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby bk1 » Thu May 13, 2010 8:17 pm

According to their websites, W&M out-of-state = $47k, and Hastings in-state = $52k (I expect Hastings to rise even further). Even if you can't get VA residency, W&M is still cheaper. If you can get VA residency then it becomes much cheaper.

As for QOL, I don't know about W&M but, from personal experience, I honestly do not think the Tenderloin is that bad, even at night. If you are used to being in a big city at night then I don't think this is a big deal.

In the end, I think the cheaper cost of W&M and its slight employment edge makes it the better choice if SF=DC.

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tommytahoe
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Thu May 13, 2010 8:25 pm

bk1 wrote:According to their websites, W&M out-of-state = $47k, and Hastings in-state = $52k (I expect Hastings to rise even further). Even if you can't get VA residency, W&M is still cheaper. If you can get VA residency then it becomes much cheaper.

As for QOL, I don't know about W&M but, from personal experience, I honestly do not think the Tenderloin is that bad, even at night. If you are used to being in a big city at night then I don't think this is a big deal.

In the end, I think the cheaper cost of W&M and its slight employment edge makes it the better choice if SF=DC.



OMG, that COL can't be right. First, you're including costs in addition to tuition right? Second, are those things that are included as extra the SAME for each school? Third, are you basing your Hastings cost on 2010/11 or on 2009/10?
I think that tuition comparison alone, W&M OOS, and Hastings In-state, is $33,000 to $38,000. But I saw on ATL.com that we can reasonably expect Hastings 3-year average to be about $43,000/year based on continuous tuition hikes. Is that so? That's what I am expecting, but I would be happy if the number ends up being less!
Just checking.
I have as my most optimistic plan to become a VA resident by 2nd year (with much effort), and as my less optimistic model, doing so by 3rd year.

Anyway, thanks again for the reasoning. Polls never tell the story.

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tommytahoe
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Thu May 13, 2010 8:28 pm

tommytahoe wrote:I have as my most optimistic plan to become a VA resident by 2nd year (with much effort), and as my less optimistic model, doing so by 3rd year.


I mean, in the "go to W&M hypo," I have these hopes. I still don't have a preference, and W&M hasn't even offered me a spot off their WL!
I just like to play the tape out, and see where I'm at. :)

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bk1
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby bk1 » Thu May 13, 2010 8:34 pm

http://law.wm.edu/admissions/cost/index.php

--LinkRemoved--

Both are from their official websites regarding 2009-2010 entire COA (including tuition, fees, books, living expenses, etc).

Looking at the breakdown, Hastings calculates almost $20k for rent while W&M estimates $13.5k. Tuition-wise, Hastings is $32k/year (resident), W&M is $32k/year (non-resident) and $22k/year (resident). It looks like the main difference if you are comparing Hastings (in-state) vs W&M (out-of-state) is the living expenses. Once W&M is in-state is drastically different.

Also, yes, Hastings is likely to go up drastically over the next few years.

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tommytahoe
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby tommytahoe » Thu May 13, 2010 8:41 pm

bk1 wrote:http://law.wm.edu/admissions/cost/index.php

--LinkRemoved--

Both are from their official websites regarding 2009-2010 entire COA (including tuition, fees, books, living expenses, etc).

Looking at the breakdown, Hastings calculates almost $20k for rent while W&M estimates $13.5k. Tuition-wise, Hastings is $32k/year (resident), W&M is $32k/year (non-resident) and $22k/year (resident). It looks like the main difference if you are comparing Hastings (in-state) vs W&M (out-of-state) is the living expenses. Once W&M is in-state is drastically different.

Also, yes, Hastings is likely to go up drastically over the next few years.



Yes, sounds about right: EXCEPT, the Hastings $32,000 tuition is for 09/10. It goes up to $38K in the Fall, if I'm not mistaken.
Also, looks like you and I are a couple of Aggies!
How are you gonna manage to take the June LSAT with our quarter system finals going on?

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bk1
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Re: Poll: Which would you take, Hastings or Willim and Mary?

Postby bk1 » Thu May 13, 2010 8:46 pm

tommytahoe wrote:Yes, sounds about right: EXCEPT, the Hastings $32,000 tuition is for 09/10. It goes up to $38K in the Fall, if I'm not mistaken.
Also, looks like you and I are a couple of Aggies!
How are you gonna manage to take the June LSAT with our quarter system finals going on?


Woot, UCD! (And yes the quarter system needs to die :evil: .)

A couple things are helping me take the LSAT in June. I am only taking 3 classes and my first final is not until 3 days after the LSAT, luckily. And the sober realization that my grades in these classes won't change my GPA enough to mean anything and the only thing that will give me a decent shot next cycle is to drastically up my LSAT score.




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