Iowa (sticker w/ in-state after 1L) vs Wisconsin ($) Forum

[Regionality]

Hi all....

So Wisconsin emailed me a potential game-changer today and offered me a 21k scholarship (over 3 years), no stipulations. Previously I had been trying to decide between Iowa and W&L...but after my previous thread I had narrowed it down to Iowa...

Now I receive a scholarship offer from Wisconsin reducing my total three year tuition to about 88k.

The deal with Iowa is that an out-of-stater must pay the larger tuition their first year, but during their 2L and 3L years can get in-state tuition if they work quarter-time as a research assistant, bringing their tuition down from 40k/yr to 22k/yr...

Basically, if I do the math now, the cost of total tuition is roughly equal: 88k for Wisconsin, 85k for Iowa...PLUS I don't have to do 10hrs/wk of work at Wisconsin, and the tuition is guaranteed...however I would be making and saving more than this at Iowa b/c of hourly wages and reduced health insurance costs (to the tune of about 4k/yr)

I'm very confused...input between the two schools' job prospects? location? national reach? Which financial deal is better?

[traehekat]

Flip a coin.

Job prospects are pretty similar. I think the only differences are going to be that Wisconsin may do a little bit better in Chicago, but Iowa may cast a wider net across the Midwest (and Arizona, for some reason).

Both schools are located in boring ass states but on exciting, Big 10 campuses. Personally, I hate Wisconsin and constantly give all my friends who live there a ton of shit. Fear the deer? GMAB.

Neither school is going to give you much reach beyond the Midwest, so that is irrelevant I think.

Financially it sounds like a total wash. The one thing I can say is you shouldn't think of working 10 hours as an RA as a negative, necessary. RA positions can be really beneficial in developing a relationship with a professor and gaining some research skills.

Tough choice, to be honest. Have you visited either school? I think the deciding factor could just be the overall feeling you get being at either school, since everything else is about the same.

That said, come to Iowa.

[Regionality]

Flip a coin.

Job prospects are pretty similar. I think the only differences are going to be that Wisconsin may do a little bit better in Chicago, but Iowa may cast a wider net across the Midwest (and Arizona, for some reason).

Both schools are located in boring ass states but on exciting, Big 10 campuses. Personally, I hate Wisconsin and constantly give all my friends who live there a ton of shit. Fear the deer? GMAB.

Neither school is going to give you much reach beyond the Midwest, so that is irrelevant I think.

Financially it sounds like a total wash. The one thing I can say is you shouldn't think of working 10 hours as an RA as a negative, necessary. RA positions can be really beneficial in developing a relationship with a professor and gaining some research skills.

Tough choice, to be honest. Have you visited either school? I think the deciding factor could just be the overall feeling you get being at either school, since everything else is about the same.

That said, come to Iowa.

I've visited Iowa's law school and I've been to Madison before (love it), but never seen their law school. I love Wisconsin a lot...Iowa seemed like a cool place, and Iowa City seemed like a great college town (but I know Madison is as well)...

I agree that an RA position isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it IS a required thing...it's almost like getting a merit scholarship with a stipulation requiring you to work 10hrs more per week but that work not helping your GPA at all!

Do you know what the deal is if someone wants to study abroad, in say Arcachon, during their 2L or 3L? It's impossible to get an RA position, I know that, but what are the tuition rates? More than in-state tuition?

Do you think I have a shot at calling Iowa and seeing if they'll match?

As for job prospects in Chicago, I coulda sworn that Iowa places better in V250 law firms than Wisconsin...but maybe there are V250 firms in Milwaukee that there aren't anywhere in the state of Iowa...

[webbylu87]

Basically, if I do the math now, the cost of total tuition is roughly equal: 88k for Wisconsin, 85k for Iowa...

Wait, you're referring to just the cost of tuition, right? You're not including COL in these figures, correct?

[Regionality]

Basically, if I do the math now, the cost of total tuition is roughly equal: 88k for Wisconsin, 85k for Iowa...

Wait, you're referring to just the cost of tuition, right? You're not including COL in these figures, correct?

Correct.

[webbylu87]

Basically, if I do the math now, the cost of total tuition is roughly equal: 88k for Wisconsin, 85k for Iowa...

Wait, you're referring to just the cost of tuition, right? You're not including COL in these figures, correct?

Correct.

Got it. Frankly, it's a toss up between these two schools IMO. Iowa seems to have marginally more mobility outside of the Midwest (i.e. the weird prevalence of Iowa grads going to Arizona) and into the lower Midwest. Wisconsin is stronger in the upper-Midwest. My first inclination is to say both a roughly equal in the Chicago market but Wisconsin benefits from the Milwaukee market. I don't think you can count on Chicago from either school right now. When I spoke to someone in the careers office at Iowa a month ago she did tell me they normally place people in Chicago pretty consistently, but they're definitely seeing a slow down because of the economy. Both are great schools and both would be a helluva fun time though.

[lawcycle2010]

Full Disclosure: I REALLY want to get off of the Wisconsin WL, didn't apply to Iowa because I want to be in Wisconsin.

That said, i think both cities are pretty similar, but if you read what people have said after visiting schools..the law school at Iowa is way more impressive then Wisco (love ya wisco). Also, cost of living is cheaper in Iowa...esp if you want to live within a reasonable distance from the law school in madison.

Honestly, i dont think it could hurt you to ask iowa to match (at least during your first year when you're paying oos)...you're already deposited there..you have nothing to lose...give them a call.

Don't think you could go wrong either way, but go to Iowa!

[DerrickRose]

Madison > Iowa City.

Plus if you're stuck in the state after graduation for whatever reason, no bar > bar.

[Regionality]

Full Disclosure: I REALLY want to get off of the Wisconsin WL, didn't apply to Iowa because I want to be in Wisconsin.

That said, i think both cities are pretty similar, but if you read what people have said after visiting schools..the law school at Iowa is way more impressive then Wisco (love ya wisco). Also, cost of living is cheaper in Iowa...esp if you want to live within a reasonable distance from the law school in madison.

Honestly, i dont think it could hurt you to ask iowa to match (at least during your first year when you're paying oos)...you're already deposited there..you have nothing to lose...give them a call.

Don't think you could go wrong either way, but go to Iowa!

haha...I think I'll give Iowa a call today and see what they say. If I am forced to work in the state of my law school because the economy is so bad that getting a job out of the state is impossible, I would rather work in Wisconsin for 2 reasons: 1) Wisconsin > Iowa in terms of interesting places (Madison, Milwaukee, and I love Door County...haha)...2) Wisconsin grads don't need to pass the Wisconsin bar...HELLO party-time 3L!

I have definitely heard that Wisconsin's law school is a bit run down...but that the law library is fantastic-- a beautiful 3 story windowed building overlooking the central "hill" on campus? That sounds like a nice place to study during a winter blizzard.

How much more is COL in Madison than Iowa City?

[Regionality]

Madison > Iowa City.

Plus if you're stuck in the state after graduation for whatever reason, no bar > bar.

You beat me to it by 1 minute.

[Regionality]

Does anyone know where I can find more updated employment information than 2007 for Wisconsin!? I can't find anything from 2008, let alone 2009.

[traehekat]

Does anyone know where I can find more updated employment information than 2007 for Wisconsin!? I can't find anything from 2008, let alone 2009.

Try contacting career services, I'm sure they have a PDF or something they can email you.

[webbylu87]

haha...I think I'll give Iowa a call today and see what they say. If I am forced to work in the state of my law school because the economy is so bad that getting a job out of the state is impossible, I would rather work in Wisconsin for 2 reasons: 1) Wisconsin > Iowa in terms of interesting places (Madison, Milwaukee, and I love Door County...haha)...2) Wisconsin grads don't need to pass the Wisconsin bar...HELLO party-time 3L!

I have definitely heard that Wisconsin's law school is a bit run down...but that the law library is fantastic-- a beautiful 3 story windowed building overlooking the central "hill" on campus? That sounds like a nice place to study during a winter blizzard.

How much more is COL in Madison than Iowa City?

+1 on the first part.

Having visited both Iowa and Wisconsin in the past year, neither is more rundown than the other. I preferred Wisconsin's law building actually. The library is pretty fantastic. So are their clinics from what I could gather.

I think Iowa's COL is slightly cheaper than Madison's. With Iowa you can get a little closer to the law building for the price compared to Madison. If you can find a place on a bus route though, Madison won't be too bad. I wouldn't recommend walking too far in a Wisconsin winter unless you've grown up in cold weather though. Also, Madison is beautiful and has great character.

(FWIW, I looked seriously at both schools. I accepted at Wisconsin last cycle, deferred matriculation for a year and then withdrew this past October to apply elsewhere. I just didn't feel like Wisconsin offered the career prospects I wanted for the price (no scholarships despite being above the 75th percentile). I applied to Iowa this cycle and ultimately turned Iowa down for the same reason.)

[Regionality]

haha...I think I'll give Iowa a call today and see what they say. If I am forced to work in the state of my law school because the economy is so bad that getting a job out of the state is impossible, I would rather work in Wisconsin for 2 reasons: 1) Wisconsin > Iowa in terms of interesting places (Madison, Milwaukee, and I love Door County...haha)...2) Wisconsin grads don't need to pass the Wisconsin bar...HELLO party-time 3L!

I have definitely heard that Wisconsin's law school is a bit run down...but that the law library is fantastic-- a beautiful 3 story windowed building overlooking the central "hill" on campus? That sounds like a nice place to study during a winter blizzard.

How much more is COL in Madison than Iowa City?

+1 on the first part.

Having visited both Iowa and Wisconsin in the past year, neither is more rundown than the other. I preferred Wisconsin's law building actually. The library is pretty fantastic. So are their clinics from what I could gather.

I think Iowa's COL is slightly cheaper than Madison's. With Iowa you can get a little closer to the law building for the price compared to Madison. If you can find a place on a bus route though, Madison won't be too bad. I wouldn't recommend walking too far in a Wisconsin winter unless you've grown up in cold weather though. Also, Madison is beautiful and has great character.

(FWIW, I looked seriously at both schools. I accepted at Wisconsin last cycle, deferred matriculation for a year and then withdrew this past October to apply elsewhere. I just didn't feel like Wisconsin offered the career prospects I wanted for the price (no scholarships despite being above the 75th percentile). I applied to Iowa this cycle and ultimately turned Iowa down for the same reason.)

So where are you headed? Also, do Wisconsin law students get to park near the law school if they have a car (and are willing to pay for a parking permit? How much is it?)

[JCougar]

Does anyone know where I can find more updated employment information than 2007 for Wisconsin!? I can't find anything from 2008, let alone 2009.

Try contacting career services, I'm sure they have a PDF or something they can email you.

This.

Wisconsin gave me an excel spreadsheet for c/o 2009 that pretty much broke things down every way possible. Just e-mail their CSO. They are very responsive.

Top 25% of c/o 2009 still did pretty well, but it drops off fast from there. I'd imagine things are similar re: Iowa. And yes, Chicago is now much harder to get from both schools. Not sure how long that will take to turn around.

[JCougar]

Madison > Iowa City.

Plus if you're stuck in the state after graduation for whatever reason, no bar > bar.

TITCR.

Madison is awesome. I'd choose it simply for this purpose alone if money were equal. Not that Iowa City is bad or anything, but there's few college towns that can match Madison in this entire country, and it's also larger than just a college town. It's a capital city and it has some white-collar industry as well. Also, lots of young people who don't go to college live there, in case you don't always want to be hanging around other students.

[Regionality]

Madison > Iowa City.

Plus if you're stuck in the state after graduation for whatever reason, no bar > bar.

TITCR.

Unfamiliar with this mega-acronym

[JCougar]

Madison > Iowa City.

Plus if you're stuck in the state after graduation for whatever reason, no bar > bar.

TITCR.

Unfamiliar with this mega-acronym

This is the credited response.

It's kind of tacky, but i just used "this" in my post above so I felt like I needed to use something different.

[webbylu87]

So where are you headed?

I'm off to Illinois. It was a tough decision considering I was in-state at Iowa but Illinois threw me some money to help make up for it. I knew I'd be in significant debt either way given my academic background (no one is going to throw big scholarship money at someone without a GPA (overseas undergrad)) so I opted for the school I felt more comfortable at in terms of career prospects. I knew I didn't want to be in Iowa after graduation and by comparison Illinois seems to be taking a proactive stance to jobs ITE while Iowa just seemed to be weathering the storm the best it could. I also want to end up in a bigger market with my sights set on St. Louis/Chicago which obviously Illinois is closer to.

All-in-all, I'm not thrilled that I'm taking on so much debt, but like I said, given my educational background, no worthwhile school was going to show me big money. I definitely feel more comfortable this time around investing $100k+ in an Illinois degree than an Iowa or Wisconsin one. But this has more to do with my own personal career goals and shouldn't necessarily apply to you.

[Regionality]

So where are you headed?

I'm off to Illinois. It was a tough decision considering I was in-state at Iowa but Illinois threw me some money to help make up for it. I knew I'd be in significant debt either way given my academic background (no one is going to throw big scholarship money at someone without a GPA (overseas undergrad)) so I opted for the school I felt more comfortable at in terms of career prospects. I knew I didn't want to be in Iowa after graduation and by comparison Illinois seems to be taking a proactive stance to jobs ITE while Iowa just seemed to be weathering the storm the best it could. I also want to end up in a bigger market with my sights set on St. Louis/Chicago which obviously Illinois is closer to.

All-in-all, I'm not thrilled that I'm taking on so much debt, but like I said, given my educational background, no worthwhile school was going to show me big money. I definitely feel more comfortable this time around investing $100k+ in an Illinois degree than an Iowa or Wisconsin one. But this has more to do with my own personal career goals and shouldn't necessarily apply to you.

Yea tough call, but Illinois is great and if it's big-city or bust, Illinois is slightly better (although I just spoke to career services at Wisconsin and she told me that while Chicago is taking a big hit, anyone wanting to work in Milwaukee shouldn't see too much difficulty). I'm waitlisted at Illinois, and I missed the qualifications for in-state tuition by not getting a drivers license while there (F* THAT!) I earned income, had a lease, registered to vote, and didn't go to school for a year...but i never got my drivers license bc I never drove....wtf!

If I got in off the Illinois WL I'd be in a bind, but I honestly think that Wisconsin/Iowa at ~85k tuition is a smarter choice than Illinois at ~120k tuition...that 35k is a year's living expenses giving me time to find a job.

[webbylu87]

Yea tough call, but Illinois is great and if it's big-city or bust, Illinois is slightly better (although I just spoke to career services at Wisconsin and she told me that while Chicago is taking a big hit, anyone wanting to work in Milwaukee shouldn't see too much difficulty). I'm waitlisted at Illinois, and I missed the qualifications for in-state tuition by not getting a drivers license while there (F* THAT!) I earned income, had a lease, registered to vote, and didn't go to school for a year...but i never got my drivers license bc I never drove....wtf!

If I got in off the Illinois WL I'd be in a bind, but I honestly think that Wisconsin/Iowa at ~85k tuition is a smarter choice than Illinois at ~120k tuition...that 35k is a year's living expenses giving me time to find a job.

That's pretty shitty regarding the driver's license. I think that if you're comfortable with Milwaukee, and with the scholarship Wisconsin has given you, I wouldn't necessarily jump to Illinois if you get in off the WL. The reason I was apprehensive with Wisconsin was that I really couldn't see myself happy staying in Wisconsin unless it was in Madison or Milwaukee and those just weren't sure enough bets for me to stick with Wisconsin. I need to be in a bigger city (or at least a suburb) for my own sanity.

I agree with you on the estimations. Iowa/Wisconsin at approx. $90k is equal to Illinois at $120k (if your heart isn't set on Chicago and you aren't biglaw or bust). (The estimate I was looking at was Iowa for around $120k total (total COA including COL) and Illinois for around $150k with my scholarship included. Between parental help and living below the given COL for Illinois, I've estimated I can shave off $20-25k from the estimated debt of $150k if not more. With only a $10-5k difference, Illinois seemed like an easier choice. My only hope is that it doesn't come back to bite me in the ass.)

[OnWisconsin]

haha...I think I'll give Iowa a call today and see what they say. If I am forced to work in the state of my law school because the economy is so bad that getting a job out of the state is impossible, I would rather work in Wisconsin for 2 reasons: 1) Wisconsin > Iowa in terms of interesting places (Madison, Milwaukee, and I love Door County...haha)...2) Wisconsin grads don't need to pass the Wisconsin bar...HELLO party-time 3L!

I have definitely heard that Wisconsin's law school is a bit run down...but that the law library is fantastic-- a beautiful 3 story windowed building overlooking the central "hill" on campus? That sounds like a nice place to study during a winter blizzard.

How much more is COL in Madison than Iowa City?

+1 on the first part.

Having visited both Iowa and Wisconsin in the past year, neither is more rundown than the other. I preferred Wisconsin's law building actually. The library is pretty fantastic. So are their clinics from what I could gather.

I think Iowa's COL is slightly cheaper than Madison's. With Iowa you can get a little closer to the law building for the price compared to Madison. If you can find a place on a bus route though, Madison won't be too bad. I wouldn't recommend walking too far in a Wisconsin winter unless you've grown up in cold weather though. Also, Madison is beautiful and has great character.

(FWIW, I looked seriously at both schools. I accepted at Wisconsin last cycle, deferred matriculation for a year and then withdrew this past October to apply elsewhere. I just didn't feel like Wisconsin offered the career prospects I wanted for the price (no scholarships despite being above the 75th percentile). I applied to Iowa this cycle and ultimately turned Iowa down for the same reason.)

So where are you headed? Also, do Wisconsin law students get to park near the law school if they have a car (and are willing to pay for a parking permit? How much is it?)

Parking is expensive and nonexistent. That being said it won’t matter. Madison has a great public transportation system that you’ll never need to utilize. More than likely you will end up living within a close enough proximity that walking, riding a bike, or taking a dog sled in the winter will more than suffice.

Your car will sit in the back lot of your rented house/apartment and gather take out Thai flyers until you take it grocery shopping.

Remember, Madison is on an isthmus. Space is at a premium which means everything gets packed together.

Oh and more importantly it’s the easiest place on Earth to stumble bar to bar and never go in the same one twice.

[Regionality]

haha...I think I'll give Iowa a call today and see what they say. If I am forced to work in the state of my law school because the economy is so bad that getting a job out of the state is impossible, I would rather work in Wisconsin for 2 reasons: 1) Wisconsin > Iowa in terms of interesting places (Madison, Milwaukee, and I love Door County...haha)...2) Wisconsin grads don't need to pass the Wisconsin bar...HELLO party-time 3L!

I have definitely heard that Wisconsin's law school is a bit run down...but that the law library is fantastic-- a beautiful 3 story windowed building overlooking the central "hill" on campus? That sounds like a nice place to study during a winter blizzard.

How much more is COL in Madison than Iowa City?

+1 on the first part.

Having visited both Iowa and Wisconsin in the past year, neither is more rundown than the other. I preferred Wisconsin's law building actually. The library is pretty fantastic. So are their clinics from what I could gather.

I think Iowa's COL is slightly cheaper than Madison's. With Iowa you can get a little closer to the law building for the price compared to Madison. If you can find a place on a bus route though, Madison won't be too bad. I wouldn't recommend walking too far in a Wisconsin winter unless you've grown up in cold weather though. Also, Madison is beautiful and has great character.

(FWIW, I looked seriously at both schools. I accepted at Wisconsin last cycle, deferred matriculation for a year and then withdrew this past October to apply elsewhere. I just didn't feel like Wisconsin offered the career prospects I wanted for the price (no scholarships despite being above the 75th percentile). I applied to Iowa this cycle and ultimately turned Iowa down for the same reason.)

So where are you headed? Also, do Wisconsin law students get to park near the law school if they have a car (and are willing to pay for a parking permit? How much is it?)

Parking is expensive and nonexistent. That being said it won’t matter. Madison has a great public transportation system that you’ll never need to utilize. More than likely you will end up living within a close enough proximity that walking, riding a bike, or taking a dog sled in the winter will more than suffice.

Your car will sit in the back lot of your rented house/apartment and gather take out Thai flyers until you take it grocery shopping.

Remember, Madison is on an isthmus. Space is at a premium which means everything gets packed together.

Oh and more importantly it’s the easiest place on Earth to stumble bar to bar and never go in the same one twice.

I don't like walking to school in sub-0 degree weather...but I guess if I get close enough that wouldn't be too big a deal. Decent 1 bedroom apt w/in walking distance to the law school for less than 700/month possible?

[Yacht_Party]

I don't like walking to school in sub-0 degree weather...

Welcome to the Upper Midwest. I can't wait to get back and do exactly that.

[Regionality]

I don't like walking to school in sub-0 degree weather...

Welcome to the Upper Midwest. I can't wait to get back and do exactly that.

Yea I did it for 4 years as an undergrad at Northwestern...I was hoping grad school might be more car-friendly, but perhaps not on the tiny isthmus of Madison (is that the actual isthmus' name?)