Columbia v. Chicago

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Regionality
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby Regionality » Tue May 11, 2010 8:35 pm

swampthang wrote:
clintonius wrote:And clearly that says something about Chicago's desirability; therefore, OP should go to CLS.

(ITT: law school tug-of-war!)


It could, Supply could have momentarily outpaced Demand. Two sides to every story, at least.


It actually says something about Hyde park...and how its not so much fun...which is why they invented cars and the L for trips to the loop, lincoln park and wrigleyville! It's possible to own a car in Chicago...not so much in Manhattan (which is a pro or con depending on ppl's preferences)

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bloodonthetracks
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby bloodonthetracks » Tue May 11, 2010 8:38 pm

Regionality wrote:
swampthang wrote:
clintonius wrote:And clearly that says something about Chicago's desirability; therefore, OP should go to CLS.

(ITT: law school tug-of-war!)


It could, Supply could have momentarily outpaced Demand. Two sides to every story, at least.


It actually says something about Hyde park...and how its not so much fun...which is why they invented cars and the L for trips to the loop, lincoln park and wrigleyville! It's possible to own a car in Chicago...not so much in Manhattan (which is a pro or con depending on ppl's preferences)


who knew... i'll leave this thread more confused than i was when i started it

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Rand M.
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby Rand M. » Tue May 11, 2010 8:42 pm

JollyGreenGiant wrote:
bloodonthetracks wrote:i was similarly confused.

If you know who "The Roots" are, and you knew them before Jimmy Fallon... come to Chicago. Now.


This. That Root-Tilden crap was way over my head. All I saw was Questlove. I can't wait to live in a real city that attracts musical acts. Hopefully the rigor won't keep me from being able to see shows every so often.

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby of Benito Cereno » Tue May 11, 2010 8:44 pm

.,.,
Last edited by of Benito Cereno on Mon May 17, 2010 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Regionality
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby Regionality » Tue May 11, 2010 8:46 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:
clintonius wrote:And clearly that says something about Chicago's desirability; therefore, OP should go to CLS.

(ITT: law school tug-of-war!)

Do you have any idea how big Chicago is?


+1...cost of living in Chicago is most likely lower for two main reasons: more space than Manhattan and a winter that scares the bajesus out of people.

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bloodonthetracks
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby bloodonthetracks » Tue May 11, 2010 8:48 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:
clintonius wrote:And clearly that says something about Chicago's desirability; therefore, OP should go to CLS.

(ITT: law school tug-of-war!)

Do you have any idea how big Chicago is?


i think he was talking about UChicago.

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Rand M.
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby Rand M. » Tue May 11, 2010 8:49 pm

Regionality wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
clintonius wrote:And clearly that says something about Chicago's desirability; therefore, OP should go to CLS.

(ITT: law school tug-of-war!)

Do you have any idea how big Chicago is?


+1...cost of living in Chicago is most likely lower for two main reasons: more space than Manhattan and a winter that scares the bajesus out of people.


Plus, the fact that New York City overplayed the whole rent control thing, which drives out affordable housing. I think this is much more a function of the overinflated pricing of NYC real estate than anywhere else being 'cheap.'

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby of Benito Cereno » Tue May 11, 2010 8:52 pm

,,
Last edited by of Benito Cereno on Mon May 17, 2010 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Regionality
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby Regionality » Tue May 11, 2010 8:53 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:
bloodonthetracks wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
clintonius wrote:And clearly that says something about Chicago's desirability; therefore, OP should go to CLS.

(ITT: law school tug-of-war!)

Do you have any idea how big Chicago is?


i think he was talking about UChicago.

No, I meant the fucking giant city with big empty spaces even on the lakefront.


Aren't those spaces nice? :)

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby of Benito Cereno » Tue May 11, 2010 8:54 pm

.,.,
Last edited by of Benito Cereno on Mon May 17, 2010 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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clintonius
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby clintonius » Tue May 11, 2010 8:55 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:
bloodonthetracks wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
clintonius wrote:And clearly that says something about Chicago's desirability; therefore, OP should go to CLS.

(ITT: law school tug-of-war!)

Do you have any idea how big Chicago is?


i think he was talking about UChicago.

No, I meant the fucking giant city with big empty spaces even on the lakefront.

He meant me. And he was correct. Also, wow folks. Defensive much?

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Regionality
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby Regionality » Tue May 11, 2010 9:16 pm

clintonius wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:
bloodonthetracks wrote:
of Benito Cereno wrote:Do you have any idea how big Chicago is?


i think he was talking about UChicago.

No, I meant the fucking giant city with big empty spaces even on the lakefront.

He meant me. And he was correct. Also, wow folks. Defensive much?


Chicagoans will defend their city in comparison to NYC any day! We resent our "Second City" designation!

lakerfanimal
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby lakerfanimal » Tue May 11, 2010 9:32 pm

I haven't read all of the posts, but if someone hasn't brought it up already, the class size of each school is an area where there's a tangible difference between both schools; maybe you have a preference for small in which case Chicago would be good for you, and if you want a bigger class then Columbia would be good for you. Good luck choosing!

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby AngryAvocado » Tue May 11, 2010 9:46 pm

One thing to consider is that the career services lady for Chicago reported that 80% of 2009 OCI participants received firm offers, which is significantly more than Columbia's 67%. Take that FWIW, but I tend to think going with the smaller school when choosing between peers (just check out how SLS has seemed to have done relative to HLS) is probably a wise decision ITE.

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bloodonthetracks
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby bloodonthetracks » Tue May 11, 2010 10:18 pm

lakerfanimal wrote:I haven't read all of the posts, but if someone hasn't brought it up already, the class size of each school is an area where there's a tangible difference between both schools; maybe you have a preference for small in which case Chicago would be good for you, and if you want a bigger class then Columbia would be good for you. Good luck choosing!


what do people find are the pluses/minuses of small v. large class sizes? also, does chicago have a smaller average course enrollment size (even though CLS has a comparable faculty ratio)?

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bloodonthetracks
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby bloodonthetracks » Tue May 11, 2010 10:19 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:One thing to consider is that the career services lady for Chicago reported that 80% of 2009 OCI participants received firm offers, which is significantly more than Columbia's 67%. Take that FWIW, but I tend to think going with the smaller school when choosing between peers (just check out how SLS has seemed to have done relative to HLS) is probably a wise decision ITE.


where did you hear this report?

imchuckbass58
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue May 11, 2010 10:28 pm

bloodonthetracks wrote:
lakerfanimal wrote:I haven't read all of the posts, but if someone hasn't brought it up already, the class size of each school is an area where there's a tangible difference between both schools; maybe you have a preference for small in which case Chicago would be good for you, and if you want a bigger class then Columbia would be good for you. Good luck choosing!


what do people find are the pluses/minuses of small v. large class sizes? also, does chicago have a smaller average course enrollment size (even though CLS has a comparable faculty ratio)?


Advantages (in my mind) of a large class size:
-More course offerings, journals and other activities. You have more people, so it's easier to form a critical mass for a student group, or to justify hiring a professor to teach a very specific area of law. To illustrate, I think Chicago has 3 journals, whereas Columbia has 8 or 9.
-You are constantly meeting new people throughout your three years - it doesn't get socially claustrophobic.
-Bigger alumni base in more places.
-No evidence to support this, but I imagine (slightly) more employers come to OCI - they can justify spending money to pick up one kid each year, but maybe not if they only get one every 2-3 years.


Advantages (in my mind) of a small class size:
-Smaller class sizes and more personal attention - there fewer students you don't have to work as hard to establish relationships with professors.
-You can feasibly know everyone in your class (unlike at a big school) - there's more of a "community" feel. That said, this can be positive or negative depending on whether you want everyone in your class knowing everything that's going on.
-There's probably a slight effect where smaller class size helps employment since kids from smaller schools are rarer.

That's what strikes me off the top of my head.

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Rand M.
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby Rand M. » Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 pm

bloodonthetracks wrote:
AngryAvocado wrote:One thing to consider is that the career services lady for Chicago reported that 80% of 2009 OCI participants received firm offers, which is significantly more than Columbia's 67%. Take that FWIW, but I tend to think going with the smaller school when choosing between peers (just check out how SLS has seemed to have done relative to HLS) is probably a wise decision ITE.


where did you hear this report?


The schools report OCI data to the students first. AngryAvocado goes to Chicago. The Columbia figure comes from CLS students on this board; they break down like this:

Columbia
V10 Placement: 19.25%
V25 Placement: 34%
V50 Placement: 49.75%
V75 Placement: 56.5%
V100 Placement: 61.25%
Total EIP Placement (according to OP): 67.5%

I agree that ITE smaller offers tangible benefits that people seem to overlook quite often. When over 400 employers show up for only 200 students, things tend to work out for most. But again, you really can't go wrong with either of these. Both schools are placing pretty well.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby AngryAvocado » Tue May 11, 2010 10:41 pm

Rand M. wrote:
bloodonthetracks wrote:
AngryAvocado wrote:One thing to consider is that the career services lady for Chicago reported that 80% of 2009 OCI participants received firm offers, which is significantly more than Columbia's 67%. Take that FWIW, but I tend to think going with the smaller school when choosing between peers (just check out how SLS has seemed to have done relative to HLS) is probably a wise decision ITE.


where did you hear this report?


The schools report OCI data to the students first. AngryAvocado goes to Chicago. The Columbia figure comes from CLS students on this board; they break down like this:

Columbia
V10 Placement: 19.25%
V25 Placement: 34%
V50 Placement: 49.75%
V75 Placement: 56.5%
V100 Placement: 61.25%
Total EIP Placement (according to OP): 67.5%

I agree that ITE smaller offers tangible benefits that people seem to overlook quite often. When over 400 employers show up for only 200 students, things tend to work out for most. But again, you really can't go wrong with either of these. Both schools are placing pretty well.


Actually, I'm an OL. The 80% figure came from the career services chat with prospective students, so I'm not sure if it's "official" yet--but I don't think the head of career services would lie about something like that either. It's worth noting that there was no breakdown by V100/V75/etc., just "firms at OCI." So, like I said before, take that FWIW.

Edit: The verbage was actually "Approximately 80% of 2Ls have accepted (not received) offers with firms that conducted interviews last fall, and of the remaining 20%, many are holding out for public interest, government, and fellowships that come later in the Spring." So, it appears that perhaps even more than 80% actually received offers if what she's saying is correct.
Last edited by AngryAvocado on Tue May 11, 2010 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Voyager
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby Voyager » Tue May 11, 2010 10:43 pm

Dude. RIGOR sucks. Anyone I run into who attends or once attended U. Chicago describes the academic experience there as hyper competitive, stressful and awful.

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bloodonthetracks
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby bloodonthetracks » Tue May 11, 2010 10:48 pm

Voyager wrote:Dude. RIGOR sucks. Anyone I run into who attends or once attended U. Chicago describes the academic experience there as hyper competitive, stressful and awful.


i figured this would come up. it should be said that i've also seen numerous people on this forum vehemently defend the school from this reputation.

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Rand M.
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby Rand M. » Tue May 11, 2010 10:59 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:Actually, I'm an OL. The 80% figure came from the career services chat with prospective students...


Ahhh, I thought that sounded familiar. My bad on the bit of confusion about 0L v. Current Student. Either way, I have heard that info in a couple places and that seems to be both official word and everyone's sense of the situation.

miamiman
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby miamiman » Tue May 11, 2010 11:01 pm

bloodonthetracks wrote:
Voyager wrote:Dude. RIGOR sucks. Anyone I run into who attends or once attended U. Chicago describes the academic experience there as hyper competitive, stressful and awful.


i figured this would come up. it should be said that i've also seen numerous people on this forum vehemently defend the school from this reputation.


Even as a Chicago 0L, I find it hard to believe Chicago put 80% into big firm SAs this year.

And I know that AA isn't trying to imply that in posting the % but I do think OCS was.

005618502
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby 005618502 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:04 pm

Basically the choice is not going to get any easier from this thread because they are both amazing schools! i would choose Chicago just because small class size and i have heard (word of mouth, no significant data) that it places better employment %

Anyways, at least let us all know what school you have chosen??? when are you planning on making your decision by? (when do you have to decide by?) and which way are you currently leaning?

imchuckbass58
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Re: Columbia v. Chicago

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:29 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:
Edit: The verbage was actually "Approximately 80% of 2Ls have accepted (not received) offers with firms that conducted interviews last fall, and of the remaining 20%, many are holding out for public interest, government, and fellowships that come later in the Spring." So, it appears that perhaps even more than 80% actually received offers if what she's saying is correct.


This could mean lots of different things, most of which do not indicate a fair comparison to CLS' stats.

To clarify, CLS' stats are only for EIW, which is August OCI. They are also only accepts, not offers received. In addition there was Fall OCI (separate, in september - mid-sized firms and gov't), and several firms (Orrick comes to mind) that held off on fall recruiting and picked up a couple of people as late as December by calling up the school and asking for the resumes of people who were still looking for jobs.

I am not familiar with Chicago's recuriting process, but the 80% figure could mean 1) just August OCI, 2) August OCI plus later fall OCI, or 3) anyone who got a firm job by any means during the fall. Only the first would be comparable.




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