Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

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yabbadabbado
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby yabbadabbado » Tue May 11, 2010 8:57 pm

What is your GPA? A high LSAT can overcome a lot (even a sub 3.0), so it's probably worth re-studying and retaking, if only to increase scholarship chances

Honestly, your best bet is to try the retake, and see where things are next cycle. If you are still determined to go to law school at that point and Suffolk is your only choice, then going at night and taking advantage of tuition reimbursement is probably the wise choice. Don't worry about giving up a seat at Suffolk for the fall, it won't be any more difficult to get in next year irrespective of what anyone tells you (even the school).

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theskippa10
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby theskippa10 » Tue May 11, 2010 9:04 pm

Being from Boston, I'd say Suffolk has a good rep. You aren't getting biglaw without contacts or top grades like most lower ranked schools, but if you want publicn interest, i'd say the overwhelming majority of those jobs seem to be held by Suffolk grads.

no leashes no rules
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby no leashes no rules » Wed May 12, 2010 9:07 am

yabbadabbado wrote:What is your GPA? A high LSAT can overcome a lot (even a sub 3.0), so it's probably worth re-studying and retaking, if only to increase scholarship chances

Honestly, your best bet is to try the retake, and see where things are next cycle. If you are still determined to go to law school at that point and Suffolk is your only choice, then going at night and taking advantage of tuition reimbursement is probably the wise choice. Don't worry about giving up a seat at Suffolk for the fall, it won't be any more difficult to get in next year irrespective of what anyone tells you (even the school).


Thanks. That makes sense. Here's what I'm thinking though...
I have a 155 LSAT and under 3 GPA. Even IF I get up to a 160- what doors will that open? Maybe I'll be able to get into Northeastern, but probably no $. And is the differential btwn Northeastern with no $ to Suffolk with some $ that much?

That said, I still wouldn't be guaranteed $ at Suffolk with those #'s. Then, I would have lost out on a getting a year closer to a significant salary in the job I believe I will be in.

Also, it seems that from all those who replied, everyone comes from a point of view revolving around $ issues and scholarship, yet everyone fails to consider that I may not be. I mentioned no $ at either school to avoid being asked that. With that said--with the #'s I could shoot for next cycle--how much better of a school in Boston could I really do?

yabbadabbado
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby yabbadabbado » Wed May 12, 2010 2:06 pm

I have no idea how much you prepared for the LSAT. My guess is, if you scored 155, you could prepare much more and maybe reevaluate how you studied the first time. How exactly did you prep? How many practice tests did you take? Did you take a prep course? What about a tutor?

Second, you need to check lawschoolnumbers.com to see what kind of $ admits at Suffolk got with your GPA in the past couple of cycles. That should give you an idea of where you need to be with the LSAT to get the kind of $ you want. Also, you need to find out what kind of scholarships evening students get there. Some schools do not give scholarships to evening students period. I don't know Suffolk's policies offhand, you'll have to check. Any scholarship from a school like Suffolk will have law school 1L GPA strings attached. But even if you lose the scholly after 1L , you will have still saved a nice chunk of $ for 1L year.

Re: Northeastern, I know that in the past they were stingy with $. I don't know what they are like right now. I do know that they don't have a part-time program and I do not think that the school is worth attending if you are taking out loans for most of the cost. Re: BU & BC, you'd have to check to see what kind of LSAT you'd need to get in, if they would let you in at all. I know that in the past those schools have not been very friendly to low GPAs. There are other schools, some even ranked higher (even some t14s) that will sometimes accept an applicant with a sub 3.0 GPA and a very high LSAT score (think 173+). Whether or not that would be something worth trying depends on how much LSAT prep you are willing to put in and how confident you are about doing better.

As for joining your current firm after graduation, are they really serious? If they are, that would be something worth pursuing, especially if they are offering tuition reimbursement while you go to school at night. However, you need to be aware of the fact that any business or law firm can renege on a deal like that at any time. If they do renege at some point, you might be in trouble, considering that finding a good job out a school like Suffolk is going to be rough unless you get top grades there.

no leashes no rules
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby no leashes no rules » Wed May 12, 2010 2:38 pm

I took the LSAT's once, and prepared with the full testmasters prep course. I studied hard, but probably could have studied harder (not 173+ harder). I believe I could break 160. However, I have 'crunched' even those numbers on lawschoolnumbers and I don't think it would be too advantageous to re-cycle. It would be wise to re-cycle to try to get some money from Suffolk, but even that is a gamble. But, as far as NE, BU, BC are concerned--maybe NE with no money and I'm not getting into the other 2.

Thanks for the advice. I've gone into this with my eyes wide open. I know my employer could renege and I'm okay with that--like you said, even if they drop me after 1L, I'm still saving $ (and gaining experience and a HUGE network of attorneys).

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trialjunky
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby trialjunky » Wed May 12, 2010 3:18 pm

no leashes no rules wrote:I'd really like to take the lsats over and I understand that's the most prudent thing to do. But I've already said that my GPA will hold me back from anything much, much better.

[strike]Maybe I'll reconsider.[/strike]My salary plus reimbursement is enough to cover tuition and living, btw.

Isn't Stetson a better school though? No one would recommend one of their programs? Aren't employment opportunities dim most places? Aren't there growth sectors i can take advantage of?



/thread

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A'nold
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby A'nold » Thu May 13, 2010 5:44 pm

There is 0% reason to go to Stetson. That would likely be a decision you'd forever regret. No, you would likely not be able to even network your way back to the Northeast from there, at least not for a very, VERY long time. You have family in the NE, you live in Boston, Suffolk has a good local rep., you can cut debt, if you do really well, you can trasnfer, or stay and be on LR, or do badly and still have a shot through networking in the local market.

Though it's not a perfect analogy, this is almost like someone asking if they should go to BU w/ $$ (and have full connections and a life in the NE) or pay sticker at like Emory because they want to take a vacation in the Souht

no leashes no rules
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby no leashes no rules » Thu May 13, 2010 5:55 pm

A'nold wrote:There is 0% reason to go to Stetson. That would likely be a decision you'd forever regret. No, you would likely not be able to even network your way back to the Northeast from there, at least not for a very, VERY long time. You have family in the NE, you live in Boston, Suffolk has a good local rep., you can cut debt, if you do really well, you can trasnfer, or stay and be on LR, or do badly and still have a shot through networking in the local market.

Though it's not a perfect analogy, this is almost like someone asking if they should go to BU w/ $$ (and have full connections and a life in the NE) or pay sticker at like Emory because they want to take a vacation in the Souht



Thanks. I'm so glad I brought this dilemma here. I was an idiot to even be seriously considering Stetson.

Just a question though, humor me: say I didn't care about finding a job or paying for it. Say, daddy owned his own practice that I was always destined to be a part of. Which school would be a better education, student life, faculty and all that. Putting $ and jobs aside for a very brief moment, which is a better quality school? Do you know or is that what the usn rankings are all about?

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A'nold
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby A'nold » Thu May 13, 2010 5:58 pm

no leashes no rules wrote:
A'nold wrote:There is 0% reason to go to Stetson. That would likely be a decision you'd forever regret. No, you would likely not be able to even network your way back to the Northeast from there, at least not for a very, VERY long time. You have family in the NE, you live in Boston, Suffolk has a good local rep., you can cut debt, if you do really well, you can trasnfer, or stay and be on LR, or do badly and still have a shot through networking in the local market.

Though it's not a perfect analogy, this is almost like someone asking if they should go to BU w/ $$ (and have full connections and a life in the NE) or pay sticker at like Emory because they want to take a vacation in the Souht



Thanks. I'm so glad I brought this dilemma here. I was an idiot to even be seriously considering Stetson.

Just a question though, humor me: say I didn't care about finding a job or paying for it. Say, daddy owned his own practice that I was always destined to be a part of. Which school would be a better education, student life, faculty and all that. Putting $ and jobs aside for a very brief moment, which is a better quality school? Do you know or is that what the usn rankings are all about?


Most all law schools give you the same education. Schools go from t4 to t3 to even t2 every year for no real reason. All rankings outside of the t50 (and some would argue even lower) are completely meaningless. You would not have a better chance of landing a job on the East Coast from, say, Chapman (a new t2) than from, say, Drake (a t3 in Iowa, I believe). They place very locally and the educational quality from either will be almost identical.

no leashes no rules
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby no leashes no rules » Thu May 13, 2010 6:09 pm

A'nold wrote:
no leashes no rules wrote:
A'nold wrote:There is 0% reason to go to Stetson. That would likely be a decision you'd forever regret. No, you would likely not be able to even network your way back to the Northeast from there, at least not for a very, VERY long time. You have family in the NE, you live in Boston, Suffolk has a good local rep., you can cut debt, if you do really well, you can trasnfer, or stay and be on LR, or do badly and still have a shot through networking in the local market.

Though it's not a perfect analogy, this is almost like someone asking if they should go to BU w/ $$ (and have full connections and a life in the NE) or pay sticker at like Emory because they want to take a vacation in the Souht



Thanks. I'm so glad I brought this dilemma here. I was an idiot to even be seriously considering Stetson.

Just a question though, humor me: say I didn't care about finding a job or paying for it. Say, daddy owned his own practice that I was always destined to be a part of. Which school would be a better education, student life, faculty and all that. Putting $ and jobs aside for a very brief moment, which is a better quality school? Do you know or is that what the usn rankings are all about?


Most all law schools give you the same education. Schools go from t4 to t3 to even t2 every year for no real reason. All rankings outside of the t50 (and some would argue even lower) are completely meaningless. You would not have a better chance of landing a job on the East Coast from, say, Chapman (a new t2) than from, say, Drake (a t3 in Iowa, I believe). They place very locally and the educational quality from either will be almost identical.


I see. Thanks.

And I know that individual program rankings mean nothing. But do you think there is any worthiness in stetsons highly ranked programs. Again NOT in consideration of what they could do for employment. Solely in consideration of the education quality.

yabbadabbado
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby yabbadabbado » Fri May 14, 2010 3:00 am

Absolutely not. Educational quality at all law schools could be much, much better because there is a serious disconnect between how law school works versus how actually practicing law works. The fact that one school is ranked in a specialty and another is not doesn't change that. Schools like to hype up this or that "special program" at their school to drum up applicants...the specialty rankings are just an extension of that.

no leashes no rules wrote:But do you think there is any worthiness in stetsons highly ranked programs. Again NOT in consideration of what they could do for employment. Solely in consideration of the education quality.

no leashes no rules
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby no leashes no rules » Fri May 14, 2010 8:31 am

OK. Got it. Thanks.

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as stars burn
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby as stars burn » Fri May 14, 2010 8:40 am

I'm also voting Suffolk from everything you've said: job lined up, you're able to work part-time so it will lower COL of tuition expenses, ect.

I actually live in Tampa, FL...about 45 minutes from Stetson. I'll admit, Stetson has a nice reputation here, but like a PP said before: the economy is totally glutted here. I honestly can't wait to get the hell out of Florida (not that it's much better anywhere else.)

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JuTMSY4
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby JuTMSY4 » Fri May 14, 2010 9:10 am

Suffolk PT is smart(er) (I was considering this as someone with a job there) and FT is...well, less smart (depending on your situation).

Suffolk's the best PT law school in the area, has a huge alumni network and is the working man's law school. Its still overpriced for PT, so be warned (though as a PTer you will be paying your cost of living and saving money). Any luck with your job paying for school or assisting?

Eric475
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby Eric475 » Fri May 14, 2010 9:52 am

The right answer is definitely Suffolk. I'm from the Boston area, and obviously Suffolk is not as good as BU or BC, but plenty of the government/public lawyers in and around Boston are Suffolk grads. It's got a pretty great rep in the area. Obviously in this economy you may have a difficult time finding employment at first but I think a Suffolk degree is worth getting

fenway
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby fenway » Fri May 14, 2010 5:17 pm

something I noticed earlier.. lawschoolnumbers isn't a terribly reliable source to judge scholarship chances (its basically just a limited self reporting sample). you would get a more accurate idea by looking on the lsac site at the individual profiles of schools. along with the data for lsat/gpa range, they show what percentage of students received scholarships at different amounts (% receiving scholarship, % receiving 1/2 tuition, % receiving full). comparing these numbers against the lsat/gpa range provides a better measure than LSN

fenway
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby fenway » Fri May 14, 2010 5:36 pm

also, being from Boston, I would highly discourage going to Stetson if you plan to return to the northeast. as people have already mentioned, rankings mean absolutely nothing outside of T-14 (ish). A Suffolk grad will get a job in Boston 10/10 over a Stetson grad (barring some previous connection). Suffolk has a well-established reputation in the city (and even extending up north through new england) whereas no one will have any clue that Stetson exists. aside from isolated exceptions this is not an exaggeration. however, in no way am I intending to knock on Stetson as a school in general. im sure they very well in fact may have excellent specialty programs, and if you'd like to practice in florida/southeast there would likely be some great opportunities for you...but in Boston, it simply will not make up for the networking advantage held by Suffolk grads. it is unfortunate that people buy in (myself included for awhile) to the stratification proposed by US News. look at the attorney rosters of firms in boston. you will likely count the number of Stetson grads on one hand (if even), whereas you will find a considerable number of partners from Suffolk even at the elite firms. do you really think a firm a large number of suffolk alums is going to have much interest in a school outside of T14? (again, the rosters) there is an incredible degree of loyalty for local schools in Boston. breaking that barrier would require law review at most schools below T-14. i think you have a great set up between your employers tuition support and the fact you could attend PT while continuing to work/gain experience. if you have any intention of staying Boston--up geographically there is not even the slightest consideration against choosing Suffolk in this case. best of luck with whatever you choose

taxguy
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby taxguy » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:17 am

Both schools have very narrow appeal to their own region. I can't speak for Suffolk, however, stetson is a surprisingly good school that is very student focused. Despite their rankings, they have the best trial advocacy program in the US. They also have the best elder law program and a top notch legal writing program. Trust me on this: They are much better than their rankings would indicate.

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Grizz
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Re: Suffolk v. Stetson--Please help!

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:46 am

taxguy wrote:Both schools have very narrow appeal to their own region. I can't speak for Suffolk, however, stetson is a surprisingly good school that is very student focused. Despite their rankings, they have the best trial advocacy program in the US. They also have the best elder law program and a top notch legal writing program. Trust me on this: They are much better than their rankings would indicate.


Why did you dredge up this thread to give horrible advice? In short:

1) Specialty rankings (trial advocacy, elder law) don't usually translate into more job offers.
2) Stetson is the third best school that feeds into a glutted Tampa/St. Pete market.

Stetson is exactly where the rankings would indicate - struggling to place students in jobs ITE when confronted with competition from UF, FSU, and T17 people with Tampa ties.




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