GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

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qbid250ks
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GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby qbid250ks » Tue May 11, 2010 1:43 pm

Hey guys,

I'm not sure what to do. I was recently admitted to GW and Fordham off their wait list, but was not offered any money. I was offered a lot of money at Brooklyn Law, enough to cover all costs associated with attendance. Where do you believe that I should attend? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

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DerrickRose
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby DerrickRose » Tue May 11, 2010 1:45 pm

What do you want to do, and where do you want to do it?

qbid250ks
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby qbid250ks » Tue May 11, 2010 1:50 pm

Ultimately, I would like to work in the New York City area and I would like to study international law. US news ranks GW's International Law program as number 6 in the nation, but I'm not sure if I would be able to find a job in NY with a degree from GW?

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holydonkey
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby holydonkey » Tue May 11, 2010 1:51 pm

qbid250ks wrote:Ultimately, I would like to work in the New York City area[strike]and I would like to study international law. US news ranks GW's International Law program as number 6 in the nation, but I'm not sure if I would be able to find a job in NY with a degree from GW?[/strike]
Fordham.

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thecilent
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby thecilent » Tue May 11, 2010 1:56 pm

holydonkey wrote:
qbid250ks wrote:Ultimately, I would like to work in the New York City area[strike]and I would like to study international law. US news ranks GW's International Law program as number 6 in the nation, but I'm not sure if I would be able to find a job in NY with a degree from GW?[/strike]
Fordham.


Credited.

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MusicNutMeggie
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby MusicNutMeggie » Tue May 11, 2010 1:58 pm

holydonkey wrote:
qbid250ks wrote:Ultimately, I would like to work in the New York City area[strike]and I would like to study international law. US news ranks GW's International Law program as number 6 in the nation, but I'm not sure if I would be able to find a job in NY with a degree from GW?[/strike]
Fordham.


TITCR

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gwuorbust
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby gwuorbust » Tue May 11, 2010 1:58 pm

Fordham for NYC >>>>> GWU for NYC

/thread

qbid250ks
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby qbid250ks » Tue May 11, 2010 3:00 pm

THank you all! So GW's current national ranking (20), which is higher than Fordham's, will not help me secure a job in NY?

krj02004
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby krj02004 » Tue May 11, 2010 3:31 pm

qbid250ks wrote:THank you all! So GW's current national ranking (20), which is higher than Fordham's, will not help me secure a job in NY?



I would call/email GW's CDO to see how many people secured jobs in an IL related field in the the NYC area. Then do the same with Fordham. If the the IL program doesn't have a good rep at Fordham (or doesn't place well in IL jobs) and the one at GW is highly regarded, then Fordham isn't really going to have an advantage in NYC.

I think Fordham slipped in the rankings as well while GW's has shot up.

qbid250ks
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby qbid250ks » Tue May 11, 2010 3:47 pm

Thank you very much! I will certainly be doing that.

timertimer61
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby timertimer61 » Tue May 11, 2010 8:46 pm

fordham

umichgrad
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby umichgrad » Wed May 12, 2010 10:39 am

It really depends on what you mean by "international law". If you mean international business transactions, int'l trade & development, etc (basically Biglaw with an international focus), and you want to do this in NYC, than Fordham is really the best choice. If you mean international law in the sense of war tribunals and ICC, you're dreaming.

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DerrickRose
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby DerrickRose » Wed May 12, 2010 11:53 am

umichgrad wrote:It really depends on what you mean by "international law". If you mean international business transactions, int'l trade & development, etc (basically Biglaw with an international focus), and you want to do this in NYC, than Fordham is really the best choice. If you mean international law in the sense of war tribunals and ICC, you're dreaming.


I really do wonder what people mean when they say International Law.

I usually interpret it as "I want to be able to Gulfstream to Europe for some bottles 'n models whenever I want"

Either that, or "I'm going to stop the crisis in Darfur by filing for Rule 11 sanctions against the Sudanese government"

elmagic
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby elmagic » Wed May 12, 2010 12:15 pm

Uh, I think you have to take all the
Fordham
+1
credited with a lump of salt.

First of all you are looking to work in the most saturated legal market. Yes Fordham places the majority of its class in NY and a good portion of that class places into biglaw. But you want to practice international law, which basically given your options limits you to, corporate international law, which means biglaw in NYC. Fordham at sticker is a bad idea given its market and cost associated with attending. Brooklyn isn't the greatest school in the world but has a respected alumni network in NY. What are your scholarship stipulations?

To simplify things look at it this way:
Fordham- Optimistically 1/3 chance at landing biglaw and being able to pay off 200K+ in loans or 2/3 chance at 200k+ in loans and no biglaw.

Brooklyn- Optimistically 1/3 chance at keeping full ride after 1L, or 100K+ in loans along with a 1/10 chance at biglaw.

I mean best case scenario would be for you to go to Brooklyn keep the scholarship and land biglaw, but even then simply keeping the scholarship leaves you in a better position than no biglaw at Fordham.

So the real question is: Are you a betting man?

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holydonkey
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby holydonkey » Wed May 12, 2010 12:49 pm

elmagic wrote:Uh, I think you have to take all the
Fordham
+1
[strike]credited with a lump of salt.[/strike]
[strike]First of all you are looking to work in the most saturated legal market.[/strike]Yes Fordham places the majority of its class in NY and a good portion of that class places into biglaw. [strike]But you want to practice international law, which basically given your options limits you to, corporate international law, which means biglaw in NYC. Fordham at sticker is a bad idea given its market and cost associated with attending.[/strike]Brooklyn isn't the greatest school in the world [strike]but has a respected alumni network in NY. What are your scholarship stipulations?

To simplify things look at it this way:
Fordham- Optimistically 1/3 chance at landing biglaw and being able to pay off 200K+ in loans or 2/3 chance at 200k+ in loans and no biglaw.

Brooklyn- Optimistically 1/3 chance at keeping full ride after 1L, or 100K+ in loans along with a 1/10 chance at biglaw.

I mean best case scenario would be for you to go to Brooklyn keep the scholarship and land biglaw, but even then simply keeping the scholarship leaves you in a better position than no biglaw at Fordham.

So the real question is: Are you a betting man?[/strike]

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JCougar
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby JCougar » Wed May 12, 2010 4:07 pm

This is a tough one since you shouldn't bank on getting biglaw from either school. Personally, I think your chances of being able to do what you want to do (international law) given your school options are pretty low. Either prepare to bust your but and study smarter than the majority of your peers, or readjust your expectations.

If you finish in the bottom half of your class for either school, you're probably going to be in the same boat, and being debt-free will help you out tremendously. If you have reason to believe you can finish in the top thrid at Fordham (I mean a solid reason, not just blind optimism), than it may be worth the debt. If you can't get top third, though, it's a pretty steep dropoff, and you'll be stuck where most Brooklyn students will be stuck, except with a ton of debt.

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gwuorbust
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby gwuorbust » Wed May 12, 2010 10:08 pm

JCougar wrote:This is a tough one since you shouldn't bank on getting biglaw from either school. Personally, I think your chances of being able to do what you want to do (international law) given your school options are pretty low. Either prepare to bust your but and study smarter than the majority of your peers, or readjust your expectations.

If you finish in the bottom half of your class for either school, you're probably going to be in the same boat, and being debt-free will help you out tremendously. If you have reason to believe you can finish in the top thrid at Fordham (I mean a solid reason, not just blind optimism), than it may be worth the debt. If you can't get top third, though, it's a pretty steep dropoff, and you'll be stuck where most Brooklyn students will be stuck, except with a ton of debt.


what you think some of those reasons are ?

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Always Credited
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby Always Credited » Wed May 12, 2010 10:21 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
JCougar wrote:This is a tough one since you shouldn't bank on getting biglaw from either school. Personally, I think your chances of being able to do what you want to do (international law) given your school options are pretty low. Either prepare to bust your but and study smarter than the majority of your peers, or readjust your expectations.

If you finish in the bottom half of your class for either school, you're probably going to be in the same boat, and being debt-free will help you out tremendously. If you have reason to believe you can finish in the top thrid at Fordham (I mean a solid reason, not just blind optimism), than it may be worth the debt. If you can't get top third, though, it's a pretty steep dropoff, and you'll be stuck where most Brooklyn students will be stuck, except with a ton of debt.


what you think some of those reasons are ?

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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby Grizz » Wed May 12, 2010 10:23 pm

gwuorbust wrote:what you think some of those reasons are ?


Unless the reason is something like "I had a rampant diarrhea disease during all of UG and during the LSAT which caused me to me straight Bs and score a 165 on the LSAT but it's all better now" I wouldn't bet on it.

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JCougar
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby JCougar » Wed May 12, 2010 10:36 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
JCougar wrote:This is a tough one since you shouldn't bank on getting biglaw from either school. Personally, I think your chances of being able to do what you want to do (international law) given your school options are pretty low. Either prepare to bust your but and study smarter than the majority of your peers, or readjust your expectations.

If you finish in the bottom half of your class for either school, you're probably going to be in the same boat, and being debt-free will help you out tremendously. If you have reason to believe you can finish in the top thrid at Fordham (I mean a solid reason, not just blind optimism), than it may be worth the debt. If you can't get top third, though, it's a pretty steep dropoff, and you'll be stuck where most Brooklyn students will be stuck, except with a ton of debt.


what you think some of those reasons are ?


That's a really good question. I just threw that out there. There's probably no one good reason why someone should think this; success in law school seems to be due to a confluence of factors. Maybe you have a combination of a couple good friends that have graduated top 5% themselves and are willing to mentor you on how to properly study for/take an exam, have an LSAT above the school's 75th percentile, have already vowed to yourself that you're going to treat law school like a full time job, are older and have developed a lot of maturity and self-discipline over the years, and you've committed yourself to begin law school already humbled and ready to adapt your style of thinking to whatever the endeavor requires. Even if you have all those things going for you, it seems, you might still be in for a surprise.

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gwuorbust
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby gwuorbust » Wed May 12, 2010 10:52 pm

JCougar wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:
JCougar wrote:This is a tough one since you shouldn't bank on getting biglaw from either school. Personally, I think your chances of being able to do what you want to do (international law) given your school options are pretty low. Either prepare to bust your but and study smarter than the majority of your peers, or readjust your expectations.

If you finish in the bottom half of your class for either school, you're probably going to be in the same boat, and being debt-free will help you out tremendously. If you have reason to believe you can finish in the top thrid at Fordham (I mean a solid reason, not just blind optimism), than it may be worth the debt. If you can't get top third, though, it's a pretty steep dropoff, and you'll be stuck where most Brooklyn students will be stuck, except with a ton of debt.


what you think some of those reasons are ?


That's a really good question. I just threw that out there. There's probably no one good reason why someone should think this; success in law school seems to be due to a confluence of factors. Maybe you have a combination of a couple good friends that have graduated top 5% themselves and are willing to mentor you on how to properly study for/take an exam, have an LSAT above the school's 75th percentile, have already vowed to yourself that you're going to treat law school like a full time job, are older and have developed a lot of maturity and self-discipline over the years, and you've committed yourself to begin law school already humbled and ready to adapt your style of thinking to whatever the endeavor requires. Even if you have all those things going for you, it seems, you might still be in for a surprise.


that is a reasonable answer. I am assuming, simply so I do not set unreasonable expectations, that where I go I am going to graduate slightly above median. While I have been way above median thoughout undergrad, obv LS is nothing like undergrad. people that assume they are going to be at the top 10% and transfer from a TTT are prob in for a big surprise and JDU.

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JCougar
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Re: GWU (sticker) v. Fordham (sticker) v. Brooklyn Law (fullride

Postby JCougar » Wed May 12, 2010 11:26 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
JCougar wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:
JCougar wrote:This is a tough one since you shouldn't bank on getting biglaw from either school. Personally, I think your chances of being able to do what you want to do (international law) given your school options are pretty low. Either prepare to bust your but and study smarter than the majority of your peers, or readjust your expectations.

If you finish in the bottom half of your class for either school, you're probably going to be in the same boat, and being debt-free will help you out tremendously. If you have reason to believe you can finish in the top thrid at Fordham (I mean a solid reason, not just blind optimism), than it may be worth the debt. If you can't get top third, though, it's a pretty steep dropoff, and you'll be stuck where most Brooklyn students will be stuck, except with a ton of debt.


what you think some of those reasons are ?


That's a really good question. I just threw that out there. There's probably no one good reason why someone should think this; success in law school seems to be due to a confluence of factors. Maybe you have a combination of a couple good friends that have graduated top 5% themselves and are willing to mentor you on how to properly study for/take an exam, have an LSAT above the school's 75th percentile, have already vowed to yourself that you're going to treat law school like a full time job, are older and have developed a lot of maturity and self-discipline over the years, and you've committed yourself to begin law school already humbled and ready to adapt your style of thinking to whatever the endeavor requires. Even if you have all those things going for you, it seems, you might still be in for a surprise.


that is a reasonable answer. I am assuming, simply so I do not set unreasonable expectations, that where I go I am going to graduate slightly above median. While I have been way above median thoughout undergrad, obv LS is nothing like undergrad. people that assume they are going to be at the top 10% and transfer from a TTT are prob in for a big surprise and JDU.


LOL. True dat.

With that said, there are ways to succeed in law school, and if you are smart enough, motivated enough, and are able to find people who give you the right advice, you can give yourself an advantage, IMHO. How much of an advantage that gives you is probably up to you. From what I have gathered, you can't just study hard, you have to study smart, and many successful students will study less than a few of their peers and still get good grades because they knew exactly how to study and exactly the mindset they needed after only a week or two of school.




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