GULC vs WUSTL

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which one?

WUSTL $$$
29
64%
GULC
16
36%
 
Total votes: 45

lis10
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GULC vs WUSTL

Postby lis10 » Tue May 11, 2010 9:11 am

Which would you/should I choose?

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MC Southstar
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby MC Southstar » Tue May 11, 2010 9:17 am

How much is $$$?

lis10
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby lis10 » Tue May 11, 2010 9:18 am

$38000/year

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NayBoer
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 11:05 am

So basically GULC sticker or WUSTL with near-full ride? What are your goals?

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DerrickRose
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby DerrickRose » Tue May 11, 2010 11:08 am

Take the money.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby NU_Jet55 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:13 am

NayBoer wrote:So basically GULC sticker or WUSTL with near-full ride? What are your goals?


This is the info we need.

IMO, It would have to be some pretty specific stuff to be GULC, e.g. You're big-law or bust, DC or bust, and you're not debt averse.

lis10
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby lis10 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:25 am

Honestly, I am from the Midwest, and I am interested in the Chicago market.
Background is in mechanical/biomedical engineering.
Health Law or Patent Law- two of the avenues I am considering.

If you have specific questions that would help just ask

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NU_Jet55
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby NU_Jet55 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:31 am

lis10 wrote:Honestly, I am from the Midwest, and I am interested in the Chicago market.
Background is in mechanical/biomedical engineering.
Health Law or Patent Law- two of the avenues I am considering.

If you have specific questions that would help just ask


As much as I want you to withdraw from WUSTL and free up some $ for me, I think it would be borderline crazy-based on the information you've given-to choose GULC.

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NayBoer
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 11:36 am

WUSTL probably a good choice for Chicago. GULC always does better at biglaw placement, but $114k plus IP focus might be enough to overcome that.

I'd research hiring patterns for firms doing biomedical patent law. Hopefully you'll have reason to believe that firms will hire from WUSTL, which I assume is the case. That would easily justify taking the money.

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NayBoer
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 11:46 am

Actually, I'll help you get started.

--LinkRemoved--
Under Employer Type select Law Firm.
Under Practice Area select IP (or select all 3 types of IP using ctrl key).
Under Campus Interviews select Wash U.
Leave all other fields alone (or in the City field type Chicago).

The resulting list of firms will be lengthy. This will be a bit tedious but I don't know a better way to do it. Click on each one, and scroll down to practice areas. Under the IP heading, see how many partners and associates are doing IP. So if it's only 4 people, it's a small office. You can go straight from there to the firm's website (hyperlinked in every profile) to see if they do biomedical patents or anything health related. Note that multiple offices for the same firms will appear in your results.

I'm not IP, but somebody on TLS who is IP might know a better resource that's patent law-specific.

And FYI, running this search for WashU OCI yields 68 results. Running it for GULC OCI yields 139 results.

lis10
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby lis10 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:49 am

Lets put a few more things on the table--

-Clerkship?

-I am not sure on patent law. Actually, I may be leaning away from patent law. I am finishing up my Mech. Engr degree this week and I feel like I want to get as far away from the field as possible.

I love WashU, the people seem great and I really like St. Louis-- but Georgetown admitted me yesterday, and I feel like I would be crazy to not consider Georgetown

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NayBoer
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 11:53 am

Article III clerkship easier from Georgetown, obviously. But would need to place really high within their humongous class to make it happen. This is GULC full time, right?

Although you ought to weigh GULC sticker versus WashU with money, what's crazy is leaving patent behind if you have a hard science degree. Unless you just hate the field or are familiar enough with it to know you'd hate practicing patent law, you should probably do it. It's easier to find a job and it's generally in higher demand.

lis10
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby lis10 » Tue May 11, 2010 11:57 am

Yes, Full Time.

I don't love engineering. I won't use the word hate...but.......
I figure that I will at least consider patent law, I just wanted to put on the table that it was not even close to a for sure thing.

270910
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby 270910 » Tue May 11, 2010 12:07 pm

I'll just leave this here: --LinkRemoved--

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NayBoer
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 12:52 pm

disco_barred wrote:I'll just leave this here: --LinkRemoved--
Depressing poster is depressing.

270910
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby 270910 » Tue May 11, 2010 1:02 pm

It's an important point though. A debt free lottery ticket that takes 3 years of your life compared to a massively debt burdening legitimate shot at biglaw.

Obviously that's the big law lens - if your legal career goals don't include 6 figure salaries or prestigious organizations (which is legit - plenty of people want to do smaller more localized work) WUSTL in a heart beat. But "HURRR WANT WORK CHICAGO SCHOOL IS FREE" might be imperfect logic in a climate where huge majorities of graduates won't be getting solid legal jobs out of the school. The placement gap between the national schools and the almost national schools and the regional schools is widening in these tough times.

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JCougar
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby JCougar » Tue May 11, 2010 1:24 pm

I hate to weigh in here...maybe I shouldn't (since I admittedly have a vested interest in people withdrawing from WUSTL), but if I had this choice (which I won't), it would surely be Georgetown if your goal is biglaw...even if you want to work in Chicago. Not even close. $150K seems like a lot of money, but when you compare a career of biglaw to a career of $60K law jobs, you make up that difference in earnings over three or four years, and then you have the rest of your career ahead of you. ITE, Georgetown = much better for both clerkships and biglaw.

I wish I took undergrad more seriously so that I could get into a T14, but I didn't, and I'm locked out of the T14 right now. If I had the chance to get in, I'd pay sticker at the T14 over going for free somewhere else, even if that other school was T25.

But take it with whatever grain of salt you wish.

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NayBoer
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 1:26 pm

It's further complicated by the special nature of patent law, for which employers regularly lower their standards, but I don't know enough to speculate intelligently there.

Also, OP clearly wants to find reasons to attend Georgetown.

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NayBoer
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 1:29 pm

JCougar wrote:I wish I took undergrad more seriously so that I could get into a T14, but I didn't, and I'm locked out of the T14 right now.
I'm 2.7 and going to NU. They accepted a 2.1 ED this year. You are not locked out by your GPA.

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JCougar
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby JCougar » Tue May 11, 2010 1:31 pm

NayBoer wrote:
JCougar wrote:I wish I took undergrad more seriously so that I could get into a T14, but I didn't, and I'm locked out of the T14 right now.
I'm 2.7 and going to NU. They accepted a 2.1 ED this year. You are not locked out by your GPA.


Well, I've already taken the LSAT thrice, so unless I get a waiver to take it a fourth time, I'm locked out by both now. I would LOVE to have had an opportunity to go to Northwestern, but it's not happening.

lis10
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby lis10 » Tue May 11, 2010 1:55 pm

Actually...
I'm looking for reasons to stay at WUSTL.
I prefer it for personal reasons, but...professionally I'm not sure its the right decision

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MusicNutMeggie
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby MusicNutMeggie » Tue May 11, 2010 2:02 pm

GULC is amazing, buuuut the class is enormous. If you want to work your butt off and get into the top half of the class, you should be fine getting back to Chicago. WUSTL has great Chicago placement in mid-size and large firms, especially if you can stay above the median there. Yes, GULC is T14 and, thus, "national"...but it's also the caboose of the T14 and intensely DC-focused. If you want the midwest, there's no reason to leave the midwest for law school, especially with that kind of scholly. Take the money and run-- and good luck!

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JCougar
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby JCougar » Tue May 11, 2010 2:09 pm

There's two factors at work here, because there's two different worlds for law school gradates, if you are looking at things from a purely financial perspecitve. There's biglaw (and clerkships, academia, etc.), and there's everything else.

The debt is almost always worth it if it gets you into biglaw. The T14 offers you at least a 50/50 shot at that, although it could be higher due to self-selection. The next 4 schools (15-18) offer you a solid shot, especially in their home region. Schools ranked 19 and below don't necessarily give you a great shot at all.

If you're attending school for free, it doesn't matter as much if you don't get biglaw, as you won't be saddled by debt AND a 60k job. But you still won't have a good shot at biglaw. So if your choice is between schools ranked 19 and below, it's good to almost always go with the money, since you should automatically assume no biglaw. If your choice is between schools 15-18, it's good to go with the debt if you want to practice in the region of the school. And for the T14, if you get in, you should definitely go and forget about the debt, because it will give you a very solid shot at paying it all off quickly.

But that's only if your primary goal is biglaw/clerkships/academia/prestigious PI. If your interests lie elsewhere, definitely take the lower debt.

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JCougar
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby JCougar » Tue May 11, 2010 2:12 pm

MusicNutMeggie wrote:GULC is amazing, buuuut the class is enormous. If you want to work your butt off and get into the top half of the class, you should be fine getting back to Chicago. WUSTL has great Chicago placement in mid-size and large firms, especially if you can stay above the median there. Yes, GULC is T14 and, thus, "national"...but it's also the caboose of the T14 and intensely DC-focused. If you want the midwest, there's no reason to leave the midwest for law school, especially with that kind of scholly. Take the money and run-- and good luck!


The class being enormous doesn't make it any harder to land in the top half.

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romothesavior
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Re: GULC vs WUSTL

Postby romothesavior » Tue May 11, 2010 3:08 pm

Without sounding like too much of a WUSTL troll...

-You are from the Midwest
-You want Chicago
-You prefer St. Louis/WUSTL for personal reasons
-200k+ debt vs. around 60k debt (keep in mind the radical difference in COL between St. Louis and DC
-Your gut is telling you WUSTL

The T14 is definitely in a different class from WUSTL, and GULC is without a doubt the better school by any objective measure. But given these factors, I'm inclined to vote for Wash U.

If you're really gunning for a top-notch firm (aka Vault), then GULC all the way. But Wash U places well into the ~100k paying firms in smaller markets in the Midwest, and relatively well into Chicago. Chicago is certainly not a sure thing for Wash U, but it is the school's primary market. This is a difficult decision for you, and you really need to decide if you are "Biglaw or bust" or if you are content taking a lower paying job in the Midwest.




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