Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

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tqd01
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Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby tqd01 » Sat May 08, 2010 9:47 pm

I have been reading many threads lately about certain law schools and was curious as to what others had to say about my situation. I am currently slowly churning out a decision between:
Hofstra
California Western (15k/year)
University of the Pacific (5k/year)

I want to study a mix of international law and corporate/business law.
Hofstra has a weak international program, BUT seems decent in corporate and with the new rankings out, it seems even more appealing.
California Western is T4, but I am getting money, and it is great for international law. I have also heard good things about the job market if you want to practice in San Diego after graduation.
University of the Pacific has the best international program and I'm basically getting nothing (although the new rankings, again, make it more appealing).

I know basing parts of decisions on rankings is rather silly, but this aspect is still somewhat important to me. Living in Cali seems much more appealing also, since I am from the Midwest.

Lastly, I know half of you will say retake, and this is something I don't want to do. I would rather do well and then transfer. Let me know what you think, be kind.....

yeff
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby yeff » Sun May 09, 2010 10:40 am

tqd01 wrote: I would rather do well and then transfer.


I would rather have a unicorn. It is exponentially more difficult to get to the top of your LS class than to improve your LSAT score. Don't go somewhere you won't be happy graduating from. And before you sign away for six figures+ in non-dischargable debt, try to get a good sense of the not-pretty picture ahead of you.

tdq01 wrote:Let me know what you think, be kind......


Do you want people's honest advice, or do you want them to be kind? :D

Hopefully people can share their very negative views in a gentle manner.

I want to study a mix of international law and corporate/business law.


Cool. Are you attending law school to satisfy intellectual curiosity about these subjects? Or is employment in a corporate and/or international setting a consideration as well?

tqd01
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby tqd01 » Sun May 09, 2010 11:45 pm

yeff wrote:
tqd01 wrote: I would rather do well and then transfer.


I would rather have a unicorn. It is exponentially more difficult to get to the top of your LS class than to improve your LSAT score. Don't go somewhere you won't be happy graduating from. And before you sign away for six figures+ in non-dischargable debt, try to get a good sense of the not-pretty picture ahead of you.

tdq01 wrote:Let me know what you think, be kind......


Do you want people's honest advice, or do you want them to be kind? :D

Hopefully people can share their very negative views in a gentle manner.

I want to study a mix of international law and corporate/business law.


Cool. Are you attending law school to satisfy intellectual curiosity about these subjects? Or is employment in a corporate and/or international setting a consideration as well?


I realize this, but, I am perfectly satisfied with graduating from these schools. And I have considered the dismal possible future and I believe the investment is worth it.

I retract my statement, be as harsh as you wish....

I was an international business/management/spanish major in UG and yes, this is to satisfy intellectual curiosity about these subjects as I have taken classes international business transactional law and business law. The content of these classes spurred my increasing interest in the subject. And employment in international law (ie. contracts using incoterms, import/export law, etc) are, in my opinion, something that is going to be more and more prominent.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby SteelReserve » Sun May 09, 2010 11:57 pm

Flame Rating: 2.2/10

Talking about international law and corporate law, mixed with two schools on entirely different coasts, and about rankings differences between TTTTs=poor flame.

Come again, try harder next time. At least tickle our interest with discussions about full rides and wanting to become a prosecutor or PD.

GirlInTx
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby GirlInTx » Mon May 10, 2010 12:50 am

None of the above. Also, Cal Western costs significantly more than 15k a year. Tuition there is at $40k + books + living expenses. My ex was on a free ride to Cal Western which didn't cover living expenses, plus he decided to take summer classes that weren't covered by his scholarship, so he managed to rack up just under $100k in loans to go to a shitty law school. What are your numbers?

GirlInTx
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby GirlInTx » Mon May 10, 2010 12:51 am

SteelReserve wrote:Flame Rating: 2.2/10


Why is it that everyone on this website thinks all new members are flames? So obnoxious...

yeff
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby yeff » Mon May 10, 2010 9:53 am

I'm pretty sure OP's $ #s refer to scholarship money.

OP, as long as you're aware of the dismal state of legal employment ITE and the difficulties you'll face...

All these schools are extremely regional - if you want to be in California, Hofstra is out.

Though it squeaked into tier two, UoP seems very limited to Sacramento. Sacramento is not necessarily what non-Californians picture about California - would you be happy there?

San Diego is lovely, but more expensive - between a few thousand extra in tuition and the increased cost of living, your cost of attendance at Cal Western will probably be very close to that of UoP.

Not sure there's a good choice here.

tqd01
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby tqd01 » Mon May 10, 2010 8:50 pm

Wow, exactly why i wasn't going to post anything on TLS. I simply wanted to see what others thought. I'm glad you have the audacity to give me a "flame rating"....if you need to scour the TLS forums to have intellectual debates about attending certain law schools and give others flame ratings, i am glad i am not you...

ANYWAY.....my numbers are 156/3.4 and got waitlisted at others including U of San Fran, St. John's (New York)....

i have relatives in NYC and love it there (but Hofstra is on LI) and just visited Cal Western and loved San Diego....thinking of visiting Pacific....so i'm not sure that i would like Sac i guess. I haven't been to Sac YET, but what are some differences among this city as compared to others. I can only imagine climate, people, nightlife???

I am also aware that I don't have a 'good' choice, but weighing the 'best' choice....I am perfectly aware of the dismal state of the job market as I have been reading about it continuously since the summer.

yeff
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby yeff » Mon May 10, 2010 9:08 pm

Don't know what your finances and schedule are like, but you should absolutely visit Sac'to if possible before making a decision.

Danteshek
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby Danteshek » Mon May 10, 2010 9:30 pm

Either California Western or Pacific is fine. Personally I would take California Western, because I like Southern California a lot better.

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NayBoer
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 12:09 pm

tqd01 wrote:I retract my statement, be as harsh as you wish
You'll be unemployed and saddled with six figures worth of debt because you'd rather tell people you went to law school than spend a few months reading the almost unlimited quantity of information available online regarding this subject.

As you shuffle aimlessly and unemployably through the streets of NYC, San Diego, or Sacramento, women will recoil in horror and children will point and stare. Men will randomly punch you. After five years of this you'll get sober and start selling cars, eventually working your way into the timeshare presentation business. You will die alone living in an SRO hotel, but at least you will be steeped in useless knowledge of international business law.

lawchampion
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby lawchampion » Tue May 11, 2010 12:18 pm

NayBoer wrote:
tqd01 wrote:I retract my statement, be as harsh as you wish
You'll be unemployed and saddled with six figures worth of debt because you'd rather tell people you went to law school than spend a few months reading the almost unlimited quantity of information available online regarding this subject.

As you shuffle aimlessly and unemployably through the streets of NYC, San Diego, or Sacramento, women will recoil in horror and children will point and stare. Men will randomly punch you. After five years of this you'll get sober and start selling cars, eventually working your way into the timeshare presentation business. You will die alone living in an SRO hotel, but at least you will be steeped in useless knowledge of international business law.

This is not funny at all

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NayBoer
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 12:22 pm

lawchampion wrote:
NayBoer wrote:
tqd01 wrote:I retract my statement, be as harsh as you wish
You'll be unemployed and saddled with six figures worth of debt because you'd rather tell people you went to law school than spend a few months reading the almost unlimited quantity of information available online regarding this subject.

As you shuffle aimlessly and unemployably through the streets of NYC, San Diego, or Sacramento, women will recoil in horror and children will point and stare. Men will randomly punch you. After five years of this you'll get sober and start selling cars, eventually working your way into the timeshare presentation business. You will die alone living in an SRO hotel, but at least you will be steeped in useless knowledge of international business law.

This is not funny at all
Do you usually laugh at homeless people? You're sick.

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NayBoer
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 12:25 pm

Actual advice so I don't get banned:

If law school is just a 150K educational opportunity, then go wherever the program is to your liking.

But if you actually want to work in international business law, it will be very hard to get a job in that field from these schools. Among these, McGeorge probably has the best standing in its market, but it also has the smallest market. And you probably won't be doing international business.

A better option, which you foreclosed, is retaking. If you can bump up a bit to the 160s, you could make Davis an option. It's better for the Sacramento market, though obviously still a risk. Could also shoot for USD, which is far better for SD.

yo!
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby yo! » Tue May 11, 2010 12:37 pm

lawchampion wrote:
NayBoer wrote:
tqd01 wrote:I retract my statement, be as harsh as you wish
You'll be unemployed and saddled with six figures worth of debt because you'd rather tell people you went to law school than spend a few months reading the almost unlimited quantity of information available online regarding this subject.

As you shuffle aimlessly and unemployably through the streets of NYC, San Diego, or Sacramento, women will recoil in horror and children will point and stare. Men will randomly punch you. After five years of this you'll get sober and start selling cars, eventually working your way into the timeshare presentation business. You will die alone living in an SRO hotel, but at least you will be steeped in useless knowledge of international business law.

This is not funny at all


yes it is :D I'll be in the same boat probably...if you can't laugh about it, what else can you do?

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NayBoer
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby NayBoer » Tue May 11, 2010 12:47 pm

yo! wrote:
lawchampion wrote:
NayBoer wrote:
tqd01 wrote:I retract my statement, be as harsh as you wish
You'll be unemployed and saddled with six figures worth of debt because you'd rather tell people you went to law school than spend a few months reading the almost unlimited quantity of information available online regarding this subject.

As you shuffle aimlessly and unemployably through the streets of NYC, San Diego, or Sacramento, women will recoil in horror and children will point and stare. Men will randomly punch you. After five years of this you'll get sober and start selling cars, eventually working your way into the timeshare presentation business. You will die alone living in an SRO hotel, but at least you will be steeped in useless knowledge of international business law.

This is not funny at all


yes it is :D I'll be in the same boat probably...if you can't laugh about it, what else can you do?
I think maybe that guy sells timeshares at the airport convention center.

lawschoollll
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby lawschoollll » Tue May 11, 2010 1:10 pm

If you've only taken the LSAT once or twice: Retake the goddam LSAT. Seriously, if you have only taken it once, and refuse to retake it again because of _______ (I don't care what your reason is, it isn't good enough), then you are cheating yourself. You seem smart. Your GPA is not terrible. You can get a better score and into better schools. If not, then at least you can say you've tried.

If you've taken it 3 times already: I apologize for the above. Hofstra is in NY, yes, but Hempstead is a dump, and it's rough for grads these days (I know a couple, both current and graduated). I don't know much about west coast schools, but I doubt the differences are that great, and the 1-year ranking fluctuation is beyond meaningless. I would weigh cost and happiness-with-location in appropriate proportion and pick the school that comes out on top.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Hofstra vs Cal Western vs Pacific

Postby SteelReserve » Wed May 12, 2010 12:44 am

Wow, exactly why i wasn't going to post anything on TLS. I simply wanted to see what others thought. I'm glad you have the audacity to give me a "flame rating"....if you need to scour the TLS forums to have intellectual debates about attending certain law schools and give others flame ratings, i am glad i am not you...

ANYWAY.....my numbers are 156/3.4 and got waitlisted at others including U of San Fran, St. John's (New York)....

i have relatives in NYC and love it there (but Hofstra is on LI) and just visited Cal Western and loved San Diego....thinking of visiting Pacific....so i'm not sure that i would like Sac i guess. I haven't been to Sac YET, but what are some differences among this city as compared to others. I can only imagine climate, people, nightlife???

I am also aware that I don't have a 'good' choice, but weighing the 'best' choice....I am perfectly aware of the dismal state of the job market as I have been reading about it continuously since the summer.


Admittedly this was my first time giving a 'flame rating' and I should clarify that I did it because your career goals and ambitions are COMICALLY out of whack with the schools and debt you mentioned. You claim you have done your research and understand the job market, yet you want to graduate with 100k+ debt from poor schools on opposite coasts (and thus entirely different markets).

Why would you post on a board if you didn't want genuine, bona fide, honest to god advice? Why post if you want 0Ls to stroke your ego and tell you 'hey any law school is good enough I'm sure you'll do fine all you need to do is work hard and study hard and do E and E's before 1L!"???

If you wanted real advice, you have it. The Wall Street Journal gave it to you. I gave it to you. The Legal Employment section of this respected forum gave it to you. The 3Ls graduating Hofstra with no jobs gave it to you. The internet blogs gave it to you. I guess there is nothing more we can do for you. Best of luck.




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