Marquette or Miami

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Kwijiboe
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Marquette or Miami

Postby Kwijiboe » Sat May 08, 2010 6:00 pm

Similarly priced. Marquette fell out of Top 100, but have recently finished a brand new law school building.

Miami moved up ten spots to #60.

What value should I put on ranking?

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merichard87
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby merichard87 » Sat May 08, 2010 6:01 pm

Do you want to work in Miami or Wisconsin?

Kwijiboe
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby Kwijiboe » Sat May 08, 2010 6:03 pm

I hope to move back closer to my home after finishing. As for which I would prefer living, I don't know-- It's hard to make that choice having only visited each for 2 days.

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Matthies
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby Matthies » Sat May 08, 2010 6:08 pm

Kwijiboe wrote:Similarly priced. Marquette fell out of Top 100, but have recently finished a brand new law school building.

Miami moved up ten spots to #60.

What value should I put on ranking?


None. Go where you think you'd end up being happiest if that's where you have to stay. Its difficult to move far away from your school at this level unless you have contacts back home, regional OCI being what it is. Miami has a decent sized legal market and the advantages that has in helping you make connections in LS. Don't know where Wis school is market wise.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Sat May 08, 2010 6:17 pm

The key advantage to Miami is that they are the most competitive school in the southern part of the state of Florida. They really benefit from this compared to other comparably ranked schools. Miami is the 7th largest city in the US now, so it's a wonder there's not more competition. This benefit is, of course, harmed partially because of their larger class size. But all things considered, it's not a bad place. It just might not be as portable as some other schools.

Marquette gives you bar privilege. But then again, a lot of people don't seem to care too much about that (and if you don't want to be in WI then it's meaningless). I mean, you're going to have to pass the bar no matter what. I don't actually know a lot about Wisconsin in general. Does Wisconsin have a very large advantage over Marquette in hiring? Worth looking into and finding out the genuine answer.

But you want to get back closer to home. So, what general market is your home in? Find out how well these schools can place persistent grads into your home market. Sure, it won't be quite as easy as if you had come from a significantly higher ranked school. But then again, most of the schools in this range have at least a handful of people all over the place. Just find out, I guess. And best of luck with whatever you do.

Generic20101L
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby Generic20101L » Sun May 09, 2010 1:41 am

If you want to be work in an athletic department or for a professional team or do anything in sports, Marquette.

Simpler Times
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby Simpler Times » Mon May 10, 2010 3:09 pm

Generic20101L wrote:If you want to be work in an athletic department or for a professional team or do anything in sports, Marquette.


NOTE: you will be washing towels

Informative
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby Informative » Tue May 11, 2010 4:59 pm

merichard87 wrote:Do you want to work in Miami or Wisconsin?



TITCR.

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merichard87
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby merichard87 » Tue May 11, 2010 10:12 pm

OP where is your family? Both schools are regional. Pick the one closer or reapply to local schools.

Kwijiboe
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby Kwijiboe » Wed May 12, 2010 2:22 pm

My family and I currently reside in Arizona. Waitlisted at ASU... So preparing to go to law school at either of these two schools.

I guess I'm just concerned with which school will offer me the best chances of moving out of state and finding a job. For the most part, I know that depends a lot on how well I do. However, I don't know which one would give me better prospects for finding a job out of state as they are both considered 'regional' schools. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, Marquette moved to Tier 3 this year, and Miami moved to #60. I know now that the USNEWS rankings is not what I should base my decision on, however, if one school grants me a better opportunity than the other (as far as moving back home)-- I feel I should go there. I know I should go where I'm most comfortable, but its hard to know which that is at this point in time.

Informative
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby Informative » Wed May 12, 2010 3:33 pm

These schools will do better in their respective cities. They won't provide as great of an opportunity to leave the state. If you are only looking at schools in this range, I would figure out what state I would like to live in and pick a school in that state, even if it is ranked lower than another school. If you want Arizona and you don't get into ASU, aren't there other Arizona programs or programs near by that you can go to? Marquette is definitely not going to travel well, and Miami isn't going to help out either.

keg411
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby keg411 » Wed May 12, 2010 3:49 pm

If you want to work in AZ, you need to consider re-taking and reapplying (or retaking and hope it's enough to get you off the ASU WL) to try and get into UA/ASU or you need to decide if you would rather work in South Florida or Wisconsin. Neither school will likely get you to Arizona. Law School is 99.9% regional. Don't go to either school if you want to live/work in Arizona.

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Matthies
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby Matthies » Wed May 12, 2010 6:16 pm

I have to agree with the other posters here, either retake (which I won't comment on because I did not do it myself) or plan to work where you go to school. You need to understand how legal hiring works, there are basically 4 ways to get a legal job out of school:

OCI = works best at top schools, not so great father down the line. The firms come to your school an interview you there for positions at their firms. If your school happens to attract allot of firms from Arizona, AND they interview you AND they give you an offer AND you make it through the summer program AND they make a perenment offer then you get a job back in AZ. That's allot of ANDs and they are mostly out of your control. If you school only has 1-2 firms from AZ, or very likely as far away as you're talking about, none from AZ, OCI is effectively out if AZ is your target market.

Mass mailing = the WORST way to find a job. basically this is just mailing your resume to every firm in AZ, unsolicited, hoping that something in it they will like enough to call a kid more than halfway across the country for a job interview. If you get that lucky, they likely won't pay for your airfare, so you will need to pick up that.

Want Ads = everyone and their brother is scowing these, and every time something comes open, every unemployed law student wanting that market from everywhere across the country is going to apply. Here it's a paper race, kind of like mass mailing, but at least you know these guys are hiring. He with the best paper credentials will likely get the call. Again, like have to pay your own way to the interview.

Networking = single best way to find a job. Who you know beats where you go. But networking does not work very well when you go to school far away from where you want to work. Networking needs to be local and over all three years of law school to get the most effective results.

Either hold out for ASU or reapply, or realize the best odds of landing a job are going to be local. Also don't fall into that trap I will just work a few years in X state and move back to AZ. You will likely have to take the bar again for that (some states you can get in on motion after 3, 5 or 7 years) but AZ is one of those screwy states. They did not used to offer repcorcity for people from my state, so we did not offer it to them (most states will do that, whatever your rules are our rules are the same for your citizens). I was just told a week ago our state reached a deal with them starting in 2011 for 5 years. But still in 5 years you will have made a bunch of local contacts, and just like in networking in law who you know matters, giving them up means starting over in a new state.

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Thu May 13, 2010 12:48 am

Matthies wrote: n 5 years you will have made a bunch of local contacts, and just like in networking in law who you know matters, [i]giving them up means starting over in a new state.


Well said... I think that really is the reason a lot of people are less likely to leave general locations in the legal field. Sure it happens, and sometimes moving even makes a lot of sense for different reasons. But a lot of times people get to where they have such a network that it just doesn't make sense to move, especially if it's just for the scenery.

taxguy
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby taxguy » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:30 am

I can't speak for Marquette, but I did attend Miami law and recently visited it for my son. Miami does have some advantages: It is ranked in top 60, has strong programs in international, immigration and business law and tax law, is in Miami, and all faculty has degrees from top notch schools such as Harvard, Yale etc. In addition, UM is like living in a resort with gorgeous people, great facilities such as pools etc. It also has a strong reputation in the Miami area. Even better, it has lower admission standards than its rankings would indicate. HOWEVER, all is not well them, and I would probably not recommend Miami. Why?

1. First and foremost: Miami is NOT student-centric. I got this from a distiguished professor. Classes are not just large,but huge. The typical classroom that we saw on tours , and we saw several classrooms, had 125+ seats. Even worse, the tour guide said that, although some upper level classes are about 50 people, Miami does try to fill up each classroom as much as possible! In fact, all seats are numbered.
They have implemented, however, deans fellows that supposedly do tutoring. Maybe this will provide more nurturing and help.

2. Although Miami isn't the most expensive law school, they aren't cheap either with tuition around $37,000 plus fees. They also give relatively few scholarships.

3. Most professors main concern is upward mobility, according to my professor friend. Thus, professors mainly want to get out of Miami and teach at places like Penn or Harvard.

4. Distractions at Miami can be tough for hard working law students. Be advised of this.
5. Career services was horrible when I was there. Our tour guide was a JD and was giving tours. What does that tell you?

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merichard87
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby merichard87 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:57 pm

taxguy wrote:I can't speak for Marquette, but I did attend Miami law and recently visited it for my son. Miami does have some advantages: It is ranked in top 60, has strong programs in international, immigration and business law and tax law, is in Miami, and all faculty has degrees from top notch schools such as Harvard, Yale etc. In addition, UM is like living in a resort with gorgeous people, great facilities such as pools etc. It also has a strong reputation in the Miami area. Even better, it has lower admission standards than its rankings would indicate. HOWEVER, all is not well them, and I would probably not recommend Miami. Why?

1. First and foremost: Miami is NOT student-centric. I got this from a distiguished professor. Classes are not just large,but huge. The typical classroom that we saw on tours , and we saw several classrooms, had 125+ seats. Even worse, the tour guide said that, although some upper level classes are about 50 people, Miami does try to fill up each classroom as much as possible! In fact, all seats are numbered.
They have implemented, however, deans fellows that supposedly do tutoring. Maybe this will provide more nurturing and help.

2. Although Miami isn't the most expensive law school, they aren't cheap either with tuition around $37,000 plus fees. They also give relatively few scholarships.

3. Most professors main concern is upward mobility, according to my professor friend. Thus, professors mainly want to get out of Miami and teach at places like Penn or Harvard.

4. Distractions at Miami can be tough for hard working law students. Be advised of this.
5. Career services was horrible when I was there. Our tour guide was a JD and was giving tours. What does that tell you?



Why are you copying and pasting this across the forum?

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trialjunky
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby trialjunky » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:00 pm

[strike]
taxguy wrote:I can't speak for Marquette, but I did attend Miami law and recently visited it for my son. Miami does have some advantages: It is ranked in top 60, has strong programs in international, immigration and business law and tax law, is in Miami, and all faculty has degrees from top notch schools such as Harvard, Yale etc. In addition, UM is like living in a resort with gorgeous people, great facilities such as pools etc. It also has a strong reputation in the Miami area. Even better, it has lower admission standards than its rankings would indicate. HOWEVER, all is not well them, and I would probably not recommend Miami. Why?

1. First and foremost: Miami is NOT student-centric. I got this from a distiguished professor. Classes are not just large,but huge. The typical classroom that we saw on tours , and we saw several classrooms, had 125+ seats. Even worse, the tour guide said that, although some upper level classes are about 50 people, Miami does try to fill up each classroom as much as possible! In fact, all seats are numbered.
They have implemented, however, deans fellows that supposedly do tutoring. Maybe this will provide more nurturing and help.

2. Although Miami isn't the most expensive law school, they aren't cheap either with tuition around $37,000 plus fees. They also give relatively few scholarships.

3. Most professors main concern is upward mobility, according to my professor friend. Thus, professors mainly want to get out of Miami and teach at places like Penn or Harvard.

4. Distractions at Miami can be tough for hard working law students. Be advised of this.
5. Career services was horrible when I was there. Our tour guide was a JD and was giving tours. What does that tell you?
[/strike]

Your thread got locked. Give a link to your observations there but no need to reiterate it. OP, where do really see yourself living?? These are two diff. places and both are extremely regional.

If you want to stay in Az, you need to RT&RA
Last edited by trialjunky on Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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webbylu87
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby webbylu87 » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:01 pm

merichard87 wrote:
taxguy wrote:I can't speak for Marquette, but I did attend Miami law and recently visited it for my son. Miami does have some advantages: It is ranked in top 60, has strong programs in international, immigration and business law and tax law, is in Miami, and all faculty has degrees from top notch schools such as Harvard, Yale etc. In addition, UM is like living in a resort with gorgeous people, great facilities such as pools etc. It also has a strong reputation in the Miami area. Even better, it has lower admission standards than its rankings would indicate. HOWEVER, all is not well them, and I would probably not recommend Miami. Why?

1. First and foremost: Miami is NOT student-centric. I got this from a distiguished professor. Classes are not just large,but huge. The typical classroom that we saw on tours , and we saw several classrooms, had 125+ seats. Even worse, the tour guide said that, although some upper level classes are about 50 people, Miami does try to fill up each classroom as much as possible! In fact, all seats are numbered.
They have implemented, however, deans fellows that supposedly do tutoring. Maybe this will provide more nurturing and help.

2. Although Miami isn't the most expensive law school, they aren't cheap either with tuition around $37,000 plus fees. They also give relatively few scholarships.

3. Most professors main concern is upward mobility, according to my professor friend. Thus, professors mainly want to get out of Miami and teach at places like Penn or Harvard.

4. Distractions at Miami can be tough for hard working law students. Be advised of this.
5. Career services was horrible when I was there. Our tour guide was a JD and was giving tours. What does that tell you?



Why are you copying and pasting this across the forum?


Yeah. This is weird.

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deadpanic
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby deadpanic » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:11 pm

1. Don't go to either at sticker.
2. The rankings difference does not matter.
3. Retake the LSAT & attend either Arizona or ASU with in-state tuition.

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:27 pm

People crap on Marquette a lot, but it is a very good school if you want to stay in Wisconsin. Even at sticker, IMO (if you really want to be a lawyer).

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:31 pm

Don't go to expensive private schools 2,000 miles from where you want to practice. Both Marquette & Miami undoubtedly have all sorts of blood ties to their home markets (these are the local rich kid schools) but those don't do you much good if you want to GTFO & go back to Arizona.

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:49 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
JollyGreenGiant wrote:People crap on Marquette a lot, but it is a very good school if you want to stay in Wisconsin. Even at sticker, IMO (if you really want to be a lawyer).

+ 0.5 - Marquette does very well in Wisconsin; that said, I would not pay sticker there. I would not even imagine paying sticker there. If I had a dream where I was paying sticker at Wisconsin, I would wake myself up and kick my own ass.

OP - neither will take you to Arizona very well. You might want to reapply.

Come on maaaaaaaan. Sticker at WI for us is only like $17k. If you have no other decent job options and you're more likely to start in a $30k/yr job.. I'd rather get the law degree from Wisco. Great potential earnings if not now, then later.

jalon002
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby jalon002 » Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:59 pm

Go to the University of Miami if you want to live in Miami. It is an incredible school and everyone is usually set down here in Miami if you attended UM.

taxguy
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby taxguy » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:23 pm

trialjunky wrote:[strike]
taxguy wrote:I can't speak for Marquette, but I did attend Miami law and recently visited it for my son. Miami does have some advantages: It is ranked in top 60, has strong programs in international, immigration and business law and tax law, is in Miami, and all faculty has degrees from top notch schools such as Harvard, Yale etc. In addition, UM is like living in a resort with gorgeous people, great facilities such as pools etc. It also has a strong reputation in the Miami area. Even better, it has lower admission standards than its rankings would indicate. HOWEVER, all is not well them, and I would probably not recommend Miami. Why?

1. First and foremost: Miami is NOT student-centric. I got this from a distiguished professor. Classes are not just large,but huge. The typical classroom that we saw on tours , and we saw several classrooms, had 125+ seats. Even worse, the tour guide said that, although some upper level classes are about 50 people, Miami does try to fill up each classroom as much as possible! In fact, all seats are numbered.
They have implemented, however, deans fellows that supposedly do tutoring. Maybe this will provide more nurturing and help.

2. Although Miami isn't the most expensive law school, they aren't cheap either with tuition around $37,000 plus fees. They also give relatively few scholarships.

3. Most professors main concern is upward mobility, according to my professor friend. Thus, professors mainly want to get out of Miami and teach at places like Penn or Harvard.

4. Distractions at Miami can be tough for hard working law students. Be advised of this.
5. Career services was horrible when I was there. Our tour guide was a JD and was giving tours. What does that tell you?
[/strike]

Your thread got locked. Give a link to your observations there but no need to reiterate it. OP, where do really see yourself living?? These are two diff. places and both are extremely regional.

If you want to stay in Az, you need to RT&RA


This is a completely different thread that deals with Miami and NOT specifically Stetson,which was the subject of the other thread.

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deadpanic
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Re: Marquette or Miami

Postby deadpanic » Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:52 pm

jalon002 wrote:Go to the University of Miami if you want to live in Miami. It is an incredible school and everyone is usually set down here in Miami if you attended UM.


This is bad advice. Do not take it.

If you must, I'd actually recommend Marquette (if you are okay with WI) because the COL and tuition is much lower. They are peer schools. But still, don't pay sticker at either and retake.




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