T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

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mafrench
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby mafrench » Sat May 08, 2010 1:08 pm

I would think that if you scored a 170 + on the lsat you would get a shit load of app fee waivers. That being said take those and apply to all the schools near the places you want to work. I would think you would have a shot at UH or SMU for the Houston market and then apply to all the big Chicago schools. Yea you may not get into a t30 but i would think kent, loyola, or depaul would throw some money at you and that seems better than a TTTT. In your case i think the more apps you send out the better. If you write a good addendum and get it in front of a lot of admissions committees, one of them will take to you. After all your going to help their lsat numbers a great deal.

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ozarkhack
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby ozarkhack » Sat May 08, 2010 1:24 pm

So not only is this all hypothetical ...

it's also a double post?

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Sat May 08, 2010 1:35 pm

ozarkhack wrote:So not only is this all hypothetical ...

it's also a double post?


How is this a double post? The other thread applies to ND specifically. I didn't realize that any schools in the T14 would even consider a splitter so I thought T20-30 was probably going to be my only shot. Anyway, there is an overwhelming amount of snobs on TLS. I think the two days I've spent here are enough for me to never come back. I've already found the advice I need from a select few people that actually give helpful responses.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Sat May 08, 2010 1:39 pm

yeff wrote:This thread is too long for being entirely hypothetical.

OP, you've said you don't want to wait, but putting at least a little distance between your bad grades and your application is the best plan, since your best bet is to get that 177+ and ED to Northwestern.


I've made one B since my freshman year of college. IMO, there is distance there.

mafrench
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby mafrench » Sat May 08, 2010 1:44 pm

Yes tls is pretty pathetic at times. There are a lot of people on here who have very warped views on law school. The people talking to you on this site represent a very small percentage of those who apply to law school every year and most of them have no law school experience and are applying to law school just like you. Take your LSAT and do your research and you will do just fine. If you can score a high score, i think you will be surprised at the responses you get from schools despite your gpa.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Sat May 08, 2010 1:47 pm

mafrench wrote:Yes tls is pretty pathetic at times. There are a lot of people on here who have very warped views on law school. The people talking to you on this site represent a very small percentage of those who apply to law school every year and most of them have no law school experience and are applying to law school just like you. Take your LSAT and do your research and you will do just fine. If you can score a high score, i think you will be surprised at the responses you get from schools despite your gpa.


Thank god. I was actually about to start reconsidering if this website was an accurate representation of the typical law school student body.

mafrench
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby mafrench » Sat May 08, 2010 1:56 pm

Its not. 90% of the people on here are prospective students with nothing better to do than worry about law school and their lsat scores. The kids actually in law school are busy being law students and studying their asses off, not talking shit to people who are sincerely looking for advice. I think in theory this forum could be a great place to receive advice, but most people are to caught up in themselves and the doom and gloom theories of how bad the legal market is. Yes the legal market sucks but in 3 years when you graduate it will be better. Everyone is having trouble getting jobs right now so most people just need to be thankful they have an opportunity to get a JD while things are getting better.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat May 08, 2010 1:58 pm

mafrench wrote:[strike]Its not. 90% of the people on here are prospective students with nothing better to do than worry about law school and their lsat scores. The kids actually in law school are busy being law students and studying their asses off, not talking shit to people who are sincerely looking for advice. I think in theory this forum could be a great place to receive advice, but most people are to caught up in themselves and the doom and gloom theories of how bad the legal market is. Yes the legal market sucks but in 3 years when you graduate it will be better. Everyone is having trouble getting jobs right now so most people just need to be thankful they have an opportunity to get a JD while things are getting better.[/strike]



Fuck off

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Sat May 08, 2010 2:02 pm

D. H2Oman wrote:
mafrench wrote:[strike]Its not. 90% of the people on here are prospective students with nothing better to do than worry about law school and their lsat scores. The kids actually in law school are busy being law students and studying their asses off, not talking shit to people who are sincerely looking for advice. I think in theory this forum could be a great place to receive advice, but most people are to caught up in themselves and the doom and gloom theories of how bad the legal market is. Yes the legal market sucks but in 3 years when you graduate it will be better. Everyone is having trouble getting jobs right now so most people just need to be thankful they have an opportunity to get a JD while things are getting better.[/strike]



Fuck off


Did that hit home for you?

mafrench
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby mafrench » Sat May 08, 2010 2:05 pm

haha as you can see ive been told to fuck off by a man who is assumably at least 22 and calls himself h2oman and has a cartoon for a symbol....is he bringing anything constructive to your thread? Absolutely not hes sitting around on a saturday looking for people to insult because he has nothing better to do before he starts his first year of law school.

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eagles86
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby eagles86 » Sat May 08, 2010 2:09 pm

no one who scores a 175 should even consider Tier 4 schools. Just make an addendum and point out that grades have improved since 1st year. A 175 will get you a chance at most of the bottom t14

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Sat May 08, 2010 2:09 pm

mafrench wrote:haha as you can see ive been told to fuck off by a man who is assumably at least 22 and calls himself h2oman and has a cartoon for a symbol....is he bringing anything constructive to your thread? Absolutely not hes sitting around on a saturday looking for people to insult because he has nothing better to do before he starts his first year of law school.


He's not that bad. He was the one that told me to apply PT to Georgetown (or at least I think he did). So, I think that automatically makes him more helpful than the majority here. IMO.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat May 08, 2010 2:10 pm

mafrench wrote:haha as you can see ive been told to fuck off by a man who is assumably at least 22 and calls himself h2oman and has a cartoon for a symbol....is he bringing anything constructive to your thread? Absolutely not hes sitting around on a saturday looking for people to insult because he has nothing better to do before he starts his first year of law school.



+1, good point

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vanwinkle
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 08, 2010 2:10 pm

mafrench wrote:[strike]Its not. 90% of the people on here are prospective students with nothing better to do than worry about law school and their lsat scores. The kids actually in law school are busy being law students and studying their asses off, not talking shit to people who are sincerely looking for advice. I think in theory this forum could be a great place to receive advice, but most people are to caught up in themselves and the doom and gloom theories of how bad the legal market is. Yes the legal market sucks but in 3 years when you graduate it will be better. Everyone is having trouble getting jobs right now so most people just need to be thankful they have an opportunity to get a JD while things are getting better.[/strike]

There's not a single correct statement in this entire paragraph. I'm a 1L at a T14 and I've been saying what I have been based on personal observations of how people here are struggling to find work. There are plenty of current law students on here willing to share the same kinds of stories. Assuming things will magically be "better" in 3 years is naive at best and idiotic at worst.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Sat May 08, 2010 2:12 pm

eagles86 wrote:no one who scores a 175 should even consider Tier 4 schools. Just make an addendum and point out that grades have improved since 1st year. A 175 will get you a chance at most of the bottom t14


Ahhh. You people are totally taking this thread the wrong way. I never said I was considering it. I mean sure, I would consider free, but I already stated multiple times that I won't pay to go to a T3/T4 and I'd rather just say screw law school. This thread was merely just to gain opinions on whether or not the increase in job prospects with a JD from a T30 will offset the $200k in debt, when you have the option of going TTTT for free. I personally know someone who chose the latter. He had the grades and LSAT for a T14 though.
Last edited by GirlInTx on Sat May 08, 2010 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Grizz » Sat May 08, 2010 2:14 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
eagles86 wrote:no one who scores a 175 should even consider Tier 4 schools. Just make an addendum and point out that grades have improved since 1st year. A 175 will get you a chance at most of the bottom t14


Ahhh. You people are totally taking this thread the wrong way. I never said I was considering it. I mean sure, I would consider free, but I already stated multiple times that I won't pay to go to a T3/T4 and I'd rather just say screw law school. This thread was merely just to gain opinions on whether or not the increase in job prospects with a JD from a T30 will offset the $200k in debt, when you have the option of going T4 for free.


Why not just skip T30 and go to T14 for better prospects? Of course, this is all hypothetical so I am inclined to say none of this matters worth shit unless you can hit that score on the day.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Sat May 08, 2010 2:16 pm

rad law wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:
eagles86 wrote:no one who scores a 175 should even consider Tier 4 schools. Just make an addendum and point out that grades have improved since 1st year. A 175 will get you a chance at most of the bottom t14


Ahhh. You people are totally taking this thread the wrong way. I never said I was considering it. I mean sure, I would consider free, but I already stated multiple times that I won't pay to go to a T3/T4 and I'd rather just say screw law school. This thread was merely just to gain opinions on whether or not the increase in job prospects with a JD from a T30 will offset the $200k in debt, when you have the option of going T4 for free.


Why not just skip T30 and go to T14 for better prospects? Of course, this is all hypothetical so I am inclined to say none of this matters worth shit unless you can hit that score on the day.


Once again, this thread wasn't meant to apply to me specifically.

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DOS
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby DOS » Sat May 08, 2010 2:18 pm

mafrench wrote:haha as you can see ive been told to fuck off by a man who is assumably at least 22 and calls himself h2oman and has a cartoon for a symbol....is he bringing anything constructive to your thread? Absolutely not hes sitting around on a saturday looking for people to insult because he has nothing better to do before he starts his first year of law school.


Sigh, The people at this site are not representative of law applicants, but they are very representative of top applicants. The stuff on the board is exactly the type of stuff you would be hearing if you went to Michigan, Texas or even Yale and were applying to law school. Or if you were a paralegal, working at a big firms, and you graduated from one of these schools.

It is conventional wisdom, so it is narrow (in girl in Texas hypo she is not a typical applicant because she is an extreme splitter) and in 3 years the CW maybe different. However, as a non-traditional law student, I can tell you that TLS is conventional wisdom in T14 schools as well.

TLS at least in the narrow sense DOES know what it is talking about.

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Regionality
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Regionality » Sat May 08, 2010 2:22 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
mafrench wrote:[strike]Its not. 90% of the people on here are prospective students with nothing better to do than worry about law school and their lsat scores. The kids actually in law school are busy being law students and studying their asses off, not talking shit to people who are sincerely looking for advice. I think in theory this forum could be a great place to receive advice, but most people are to caught up in themselves and the doom and gloom theories of how bad the legal market is. Yes the legal market sucks but in 3 years when you graduate it will be better. Everyone is having trouble getting jobs right now so most people just need to be thankful they have an opportunity to get a JD while things are getting better.[/strike]

There's not a single correct statement in this entire paragraph. I'm a 1L at a T14 and I've been saying what I have been based on personal observations of how people here are struggling to find work. There are plenty of current law students on here willing to share the same kinds of stories. Assuming things will magically be "better" in 3 years is naive at best and idiotic at worst.


Typical. You say people at your T14 are "struggling" to find work, but you have yet to give any statistics (even at your very own school) about employment rates 9 months after graduation in the current year. It SHOULD be a "struggle" to find work, no matter the economy. People need to balance many things to find a job that fits for them. It is such typical T14-sense-of-entitlement-mentality that leads you to think that a struggle at a T14 to find a job is some sort of unfair burden.

Please, besides your anecdotal evidence and observations, give statistics that mean something so we know how bad it really is for you and your peers. Then we could maybe extrapolate to lower ranked law schools. But I think that for you and your fellow T14ers that finding a job won't be a problem at all in the end (9 months out). Let's not forget too that just because you don't get your dream job now doesn't mean you won't land a dream job a year from now after you work your embarrassingly pathetic 50-75k/yr job now.

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DerrickRose
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby DerrickRose » Sat May 08, 2010 2:23 pm

mafrench wrote:Its not. 90% of the people on here are prospective students with nothing better to do than worry about law school and their lsat scores. The kids actually in law school are busy being law students and studying their asses off, not talking shit to people who are sincerely looking for advice. I think in theory this forum could be a great place to receive advice, but most people are to caught up in themselves and the doom and gloom theories of how bad the legal market is. Yes the legal market sucks but in 3 years when you graduate it will be better. Everyone is having trouble getting jobs right now so most people just need to be thankful they have an opportunity to get a JD while things are getting better.


Well I'm a 1L (who should be studying right now, but this is important), but I feel pretty strongly that many of the 0L's that post here have a pretty strong handle on what is going on in the job market. In a lot of ways they are more knowledgeable since they can spend all day pouring over the NALP directory and Above The Law while poor law students like me have to, y'know, study.

Anyway, with respect to the bolded, that statement may well be factually correct, but it just does not reflect the reality with which law students are faced. I am attending a T25 with a big scholarship and I still feel like going into 60k of debt is the most profligate, irresponsible thing I've ever done. Going into 200k+ debt, especially at a worse school, is a whole other universe entirely.

Its this simple: If you pay sticker at ANY school (with a few in-state bargain exceptions), in order to service your debt upon graduation you MUST get Biglaw. Otherwise you are attached to IBR for the next 10 years, clinging to a job and only being able to create savings for yourself by the time you are in your late 30's. Not good times.

And as far as Biglaw is concerned, people who are considering law school at sticker cost for the class of 2013 are going to face their one and only chance of financial success in their lives in the early fall of 2011. Whatever "recovery" you are expecting has to have happened by then or it is irrelevant to the financial prospects of indebted law students.

As far as the "T4" aspect of this thread, my distaste for shamefully overpriced law schools that have no justifiable reason to exist can wait for another time. But I must tell you as a law student who is in it for real now, having every time I fill my car up with gas add on to a tab that I am going to have to pay back in full, it puts into perspective how deplorably bad of a choice going to any but the very top law schools at full price is.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat May 08, 2010 2:24 pm

Regionality wrote:[strike]Typical. You say people at your T14 are "struggling" to find work, but you have yet to give any statistics (even at your very own school) about employment rates 9 months after graduation in the current year. It SHOULD be a "struggle" to find work, no matter the economy. People need to balance many things to find a job that fits for them. It is such typical T14-sense-of-entitlement-mentality that leads you to think that a struggle at a T14 to find a job is some sort of unfair burden.

Please, besides your anecdotal evidence and observations, give statistics that mean something so we know how bad it really is for you and your peers. Then we could maybe extrapolate to lower ranked law schools. But I think that for you and your fellow T14ers that finding a job won't be a problem at all in the end (9 months out). Let's not forget too that just because you don't get your dream job now doesn't mean you won't land a dream job a year from now after you work your embarrassingly pathetic 50-75k/yr job now.[/strike]



No one cares

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Regionality
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Regionality » Sat May 08, 2010 2:25 pm

D. H2Oman wrote:
Regionality wrote:[strike]Typical. You say people at your T14 are "struggling" to find work, but you have yet to give any statistics (even at your very own school) about employment rates 9 months after graduation in the current year. It SHOULD be a "struggle" to find work, no matter the economy. People need to balance many things to find a job that fits for them. It is such typical T14-sense-of-entitlement-mentality that leads you to think that a struggle at a T14 to find a job is some sort of unfair burden.

Please, besides your anecdotal evidence and observations, give statistics that mean something so we know how bad it really is for you and your peers. Then we could maybe extrapolate to lower ranked law schools. But I think that for you and your fellow T14ers that finding a job won't be a problem at all in the end (9 months out). Let's not forget too that just because you don't get your dream job now doesn't mean you won't land a dream job a year from now after you work your embarrassingly pathetic 50-75k/yr job now.[/strike]



No one cares


Lazy and wrong.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Sat May 08, 2010 2:27 pm

DerrickRose wrote:
mafrench wrote:Its not. 90% of the people on here are prospective students with nothing better to do than worry about law school and their lsat scores. The kids actually in law school are busy being law students and studying their asses off, not talking shit to people who are sincerely looking for advice. I think in theory this forum could be a great place to receive advice, but most people are to caught up in themselves and the doom and gloom theories of how bad the legal market is. Yes the legal market sucks but in 3 years when you graduate it will be better. Everyone is having trouble getting jobs right now so most people just need to be thankful they have an opportunity to get a JD while things are getting better.


Well I'm a 1L (who should be studying right now, but this is important), but I feel pretty strongly that many of the 0L's that post here have a pretty strong handle on what is going on in the job market. In a lot of ways they are more knowledgeable since they can spend all day pouring over the NALP directory and Above The Law while poor law students like me have to, y'know, study.

Anyway, with respect to the bolded, that statement may well be factually correct, but it just does not reflect the reality with which law students are faced. I am attending a T25 with a big scholarship and I still feel like going into 60k of debt is the most profligate, irresponsible thing I've ever done. Going into 200k+ debt, especially at a worse school, is a whole other universe entirely.

Its this simple: If you pay sticker at ANY school (with a few in-state bargain exceptions), in order to service your debt upon graduation you MUST get Biglaw. Otherwise you are attached to IBR for the next 10 years, clinging to a job and only being able to create savings for yourself by the time you are in your late 30's. Not good times.

And as far as Biglaw is concerned, people who are considering law school at sticker cost for the class of 2013 are going to face their one and only chance of financial success in their lives in the early fall of 2011. Whatever "recovery" you are expecting has to have happened by then or it is irrelevant to the financial prospects of indebted law students.

As far as the "T4" aspect of this thread, my distaste for shamefully overpriced law schools that have no justifiable reason to exist can wait for another time. But I must tell you as a law student who is in it for real now, having every time I fill my car up with gas add on to a tab that I am going to have to pay back in full, it puts into perspective how deplorably bad of a choice going to any but the very top law schools at full price is.


The best response yet.

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DerrickRose
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby DerrickRose » Sat May 08, 2010 2:31 pm

Regionality wrote:But I think that for you and your fellow T14ers that finding a job won't be a problem at all in the end (9 months out).

Wow, I think there's a job in career services for you in the end.


Let's not forget too that just because you don't get your dream job now doesn't mean you won't land a dream job a year from now after you work your embarrassingly pathetic 50-75k/yr job now.


Two flaming flying fallacies in that statement:
1. That Biglaw is the "dream job" of T14ers. False. It is the only available means to pay off their debt, and a launching point into the upper echelon of the legal industry.

2. Once you strike out at OCI, there is no turning back. Judging, academia, DoJ, you name it, is virtually shut off forever once you can't wiggle your way into one of those big firms as a 2L. There is a rich and vibrant life outside the confines of the legal Illuminati, but don't kid yourself. Once you're out, you're out.

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Doritos
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Doritos » Sat May 08, 2010 2:32 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
mafrench wrote:Yes tls is pretty pathetic at times. There are a lot of people on here who have very warped views on law school. The people talking to you on this site represent a very small percentage of those who apply to law school every year and most of them have no law school experience and are applying to law school just like you. Take your LSAT and do your research and you will do just fine. If you can score a high score, i think you will be surprised at the responses you get from schools despite your gpa.


Thank god. I was actually about to start reconsidering if this website was an accurate representation of the typical law school student body.


mafrench wrote:Its not. 90% of the people on here are prospective students with nothing better to do than worry about law school and their lsat scores. The kids actually in law school are busy being law students and studying their asses off, not talking shit to people who are sincerely looking for advice. I think in theory this forum could be a great place to receive advice, but most people are to caught up in themselves and the doom and gloom theories of how bad the legal market is. Yes the legal market sucks but in 3 years when you graduate it will be better. Everyone is having trouble getting jobs right now so most people just need to be thankful they have an opportunity to get a JD while things are getting better.


Ok I usually try to stay out of internet quibbles but what's going on here? First, mafrench you say a lot of people on here have "warped views on law school". What are these warped views? For a view to be warped I would assume there is a standard and correct view. What view is that? TLS is not perfect but I have learned a ton about the admissions process, the legal market, law school, etc. from this forum. Countless people give invaluable insight into the law school world and legal world to us 0Ls free of charge. You say "90% of people on here at prospectives with nothing better to do than worry about law school and their lsat scores". You say this like it's a bad thing lol. I really enjoy this place because there are lots of other 0L's like me who take the time to do in depth research about admissions standards at schools, employment prospects, cost-benefit analysis of schools, market saturation, etc. I call this due diligence and I welcome it.

You also say most are caught up in doom and gloom theories and how bad the legal market is. I ask what is wrong with that? We are talking about putting up a substantial amount of money, give up 3 years of our lives, and enter into a very specific field. What is wrong with analyzing the market. Also before you dismiss these doom and gloom theories take a trip to the legal employment subforum. It's sobering and real. There are plenty of fantastic posters who are in law school, and even some who are working in the legal field right now, who are giving insight into the market. Have you been through an OGI? Are you a practicing attorney? You can disagree with people's take on the current state of the legal field, their recommendation of which school you should attend, or even think that h20man isn't hilarious (which he is) but please get off your high horse and don't insult the entire forum.

And girlintx...what's with that comment? If you don't want our help don't ask. No one is making you stay here. There is a lot of internet out there and you don't have to come here. Try --LinkRemoved-- or http://www.xoxohth.com/main.php?forum_id=2 if our replies are so repugnant.




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