T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

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GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 9:15 pm

motiontodismiss wrote:TTTT or HYSC?

With a 173+ there's no way you'll end up at a TTTT.


I don't have unlimited funds and my chances at $ from top schools are unlikely.

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Always Credited
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 9:16 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:TTTT or HYSC?

With a 173+ there's no way you'll end up at a TTTT.



My ex somehow did. Free ride at California Western. He's a 3L right now so it hasn't been confirmed, but I'm thinking it was a dumb decision. He had the LSAT score and the GPA to go anywhere. I'm much more limited.


Glad he's your ex.




a/s/l?

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 9:19 pm

Always Credited wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:TTTT or HYSC?

With a 173+ there's no way you'll end up at a TTTT.



My ex somehow did. Free ride at California Western. He's a 3L right now so it hasn't been confirmed, but I'm thinking it was a dumb decision. He had the LSAT score and the GPA to go anywhere. I'm much more limited.


Glad he's your ex.




a/s/l?


Haha!

He had over $100k in undergrad loans from Michigan so I think the thought of adding another $150-$200k was just unbearable. When you're six figures in debt, anything with the word free in front of it starts to look pretty good.

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vanwinkle
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby vanwinkle » Fri May 07, 2010 9:22 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:TTTT or HYSC?

With a 173+ there's no way you'll end up at a TTTT.

I don't have unlimited funds and my chances at $ from top schools are unlikely.

Due to the weak job market the conventional wisdom is to go to the best school you can and take loans. If you can get into a T14 school, attending at sticker is wiser than attending a T30 with $ right now, if your goal is BigLaw. Just take the loans and make the best of your opportunity.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 9:24 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:TTTT or HYSC?

With a 173+ there's no way you'll end up at a TTTT.

I don't have unlimited funds and my chances at $ from top schools are unlikely.

Due to the weak job market the conventional wisdom is to go to the best school you can and take loans. If you can get into a T14 school, attending at sticker is wiser than attending a T30 with $ right now, if your goal is BigLaw. Just take the loans and make the best of your opportunity.


I'll probably end up doing that. I wish I had a shot at UT since I'd have in-state tuition and anyone in TX with a UT law degree is gold. I hate my shitty LSAC gpa. :(

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Doritos
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Doritos » Fri May 07, 2010 9:32 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:TTTT or HYSC?

With a 173+ there's no way you'll end up at a TTTT.


I don't have unlimited funds and my chances at $ from top schools are unlikely.


IBR/LRAP to the rescue if biglaw doesn't work out. I would look into the LRAPs of the schools you apply to. There happens to be a thread on this very forum comparing T14 LRAPs. Right this way...viewtopic.php?f=15&t=114958&p=2852957#p2852957

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 9:42 pm

Doritos wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:TTTT or HYSC?

With a 173+ there's no way you'll end up at a TTTT.


I don't have unlimited funds and my chances at $ from top schools are unlikely.


IBR/LRAP to the rescue if biglaw doesn't work out. I would look into the LRAPs of the schools you apply to. There happens to be a thread on this very forum comparing T14 LRAPs. Right this way...viewtopic.php?f=15&t=114958&p=2852957#p2852957


Awesome link. Thanks.

If I go anywhere besides Houston, I'm on my own. If I practice here I know several people who can get me in the door at some of big firms. A close family friend is partner at Fulbright & Jaworski, brother-in-law is a lawyer, and two uncles are lawyers. I'm hoping that finding a job won't be a huge problem for me.

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vanwinkle
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby vanwinkle » Fri May 07, 2010 9:48 pm

GirlInTx wrote:If I go anywhere besides Houston, I'm on my own. If I practice here I know several people who can get me in the door at some of big firms. A close family friend is partner at Fulbright & Jaworski, brother-in-law is a lawyer, and two uncles are lawyers. I'm hoping that finding a job won't be a huge problem for me.

This certainly changes things considerably. It might make South Texas make sense. You'd still need to push yourself and do well there, but unlike a lot of people, you might have a chance at success if you did.

However, you should at least aim for a high LSAT score and U of H, if not higher. Keep in mind that going T14 anywhere in the country is going to make you attractive to employers in Houston when you graduate.

09042014
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby 09042014 » Fri May 07, 2010 9:49 pm

GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.


Graduate. Get a job work for a year, then apply to Northwestern via ED.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 9:53 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:If I go anywhere besides Houston, I'm on my own. If I practice here I know several people who can get me in the door at some of big firms. A close family friend is partner at Fulbright & Jaworski, brother-in-law is a lawyer, and two uncles are lawyers. I'm hoping that finding a job won't be a huge problem for me.

This certainly changes things considerably. It might make South Texas make sense. You'd still need to push yourself and do well there, but unlike a lot of people, you might have a chance at success if you did.

However, you should at least aim for a high LSAT score and U of H, if not higher. Keep in mind that going T14 anywhere in the country is going to make you attractive to employers in Houston when you graduate.


I would consider STCL if it were free. I won't pay for a T3/T4. I'd rather just not go at all.

U of H Law Center is considered a very good school here so I'd be happy to go there. The only problem is I don't want to be confined to working in Houston, nor do I want to have to depend on family connections to get me a job. I'd like to think I can do it on merit and networking that doesn't include my relatives. I guess we'll see how I do come October then I'll know where I stand. At this point, I'm leaning more towards sticker price at a top school regardless of what my connections are.

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vanwinkle
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby vanwinkle » Fri May 07, 2010 9:54 pm

GirlInTx wrote:At this point, I'm leaning more towards sticker price at a top school regardless of what my connections are.

Well, if you do this you kind of get the best of both worlds. You've got your family connections to rely on and the chance of going wherever else you want.

Good luck, and keep studying. 170+ is not out of reach!

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 10:00 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.


Graduate. Get a job work for a year, then apply to Northwestern via ED.


I really don't want to put off law school any longer than I have to. I'm going to be 23 in a month since I took a year off after my freshmen year of prioritizing partying and sex with my bf over attending class. If I lack the work experience, then I think NU might just be out of the question for me. Although it's probably not a good idea, I have two close friends in HR and I'm pretty close to my old boss. I could probably get away with "fluffing" my resume.

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Always Credited
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 10:02 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.


Graduate. Get a job work for a year, then apply to Northwestern via ED.


I really don't want to put off law school any longer than I have to. I'm going to be 23 in a month since I took a year off after my freshmen year of prioritizing partying and sex with my bf over attending class. If I lack the work experience, then I think NU might just be out of the question for me. Although it's probably not a good idea, I have two close friends in HR and I'm pretty close to my old boss. I could probably get away with "fluffing" my resume.


Too much info, or not enough info? I'm torn.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 10:04 pm

Always Credited wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.


Graduate. Get a job work for a year, then apply to Northwestern via ED.


I really don't want to put off law school any longer than I have to. I'm going to be 23 in a month since I took a year off after my freshmen year of prioritizing partying and sex with my bf over attending class. If I lack the work experience, then I think NU might just be out of the question for me. Although it's probably not a good idea, I have two close friends in HR and I'm pretty close to my old boss. I could probably get away with "fluffing" my resume.


Too much info, or not enough info? I'm torn.


I guess that was TMI. I probably need to come up with a better excuse for my freshman grades between now and October so I can write an addendum.
Last edited by GirlInTx on Fri May 07, 2010 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

legalized
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby legalized » Fri May 07, 2010 10:41 pm

GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.


If you go to south texas you will be working in Houston then, I assume, because I doubt a texas T4 has any reach/pull in Chicago.

And no matter what pay you get in Houston, you will have gone for free. Now: how is South Texas's reputation in the Houston market? Is it first, second, last on the Houston totem pole?

Houston's cost of living is also better than Chicago's, no?

Free-ride I say! That way whether job prospects rise or sink on the other end, you have a bill of $0 to repay!

legalized
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby legalized » Fri May 07, 2010 10:42 pm

Always Credited wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.


Graduate. Get a job work for a year, then apply to Northwestern via ED.


I really don't want to put off law school any longer than I have to. I'm going to be 23 in a month since I took a year off after my freshmen year of prioritizing partying and sex with my bf over attending class. If I lack the work experience, then I think NU might just be out of the question for me. Although it's probably not a good idea, I have two close friends in HR and I'm pretty close to my old boss. I could probably get away with "fluffing" my resume.


Too much info, or not enough info? I'm torn.


LMAO you are too much.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 10:43 pm

legalized wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.


If you go to south texas you will be working in Houston then, I assume, because I doubt a texas T4 has any reach/pull in Chicago.

And no matter what pay you get in Houston, you will have gone for free. Now: how is South Texas's reputation in the Houston market? Is it first, second, last on the Houston totem pole?

Houston's cost of living is also better than Chicago's, no?

Free-ride I say! That way whether job prospects rise or sink on the other end, you have a bill of $0 to repay!


Houston is dirt cheap if you don't mind the terrible weather and the lacking scenery.

STCL has a decent reputation in Houston, which is good considering the legal market is huge here. BUT UT, UH, SMU, and Baylor grads will always get looked at first IMO.

Edit: UT and UH really are the best law schools for anyone that wants to work in Houston. UH has pretty high admission standards for being a T2 and is well respected here. I think the problem is STCL has such low numbers and every student there is probably a UH reject. A large majority of the students enroll there with the intention of transferring to UH if they can keep a high class rank.

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eagles86
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby eagles86 » Sat May 08, 2010 12:04 am

Take the T30, the TLS crowd is ridiculously debt- averse. For most things, you have to take a risk to get a higher reward! Not everything is guaranteed like the T10 is in terms of job prospects. Of course avoiding overpriced schools like Seton Hall can be smart but i wouldnt hesitate paying sticker somewhere like GW. I go for it on 4th down and dont mind educated risks though. A lot of the elite t14 grads will never admit it but are emotionally insecure and as a result get personal satisfaction by putting down non T20 schools and think any job paying below 160K at the start is shitlaw.

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vanwinkle
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 08, 2010 12:07 am

eagles86 wrote:Take the T30, the TLS crowd is ridiculously debt- averse. For most things, you have to take a risk to get a higher reward! Not everything is guaranteed like the T10 is in terms of job prospects. Of course avoiding overpriced schools like Seton Hall can be smart but i wouldnt hesitate paying sticker somewhere like GW. I go for it on 4th down and dont mind educated risks though. A lot of the elite t14 grads will never admit it but are emotionally insecure and as a result get personal satisfaction by putting down non T20 schools and think any job paying below 160K at the start is shitlaw.

No.

09042014
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby 09042014 » Sat May 08, 2010 12:14 am

OP consider St Johns if you are looking for a full ride. They gave one to someone with your numbers this year.

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Regionality
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Regionality » Sat May 08, 2010 12:23 am

vanwinkle wrote:
eagles86 wrote:Take the T30, the TLS crowd is ridiculously debt- averse. For most things, you have to take a risk to get a higher reward! Not everything is guaranteed like the T10 is in terms of job prospects. Of course avoiding overpriced schools like Seton Hall can be smart but i wouldnt hesitate paying sticker somewhere like GW. I go for it on 4th down and dont mind educated risks though. A lot of the elite t14 grads will never admit it but are emotionally insecure and as a result get personal satisfaction by putting down non T20 schools and think any job paying below 160K at the start is shitlaw.

No.


Care to substantiate your terse rejection? Surprise me with something other than "No.".

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Always Credited
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Always Credited » Sat May 08, 2010 12:24 am

Regionality wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
eagles86 wrote:Take the T30, the TLS crowd is ridiculously debt- averse. For most things, you have to take a risk to get a higher reward! Not everything is guaranteed like the T10 is in terms of job prospects. Of course avoiding overpriced schools like Seton Hall can be smart but i wouldnt hesitate paying sticker somewhere like GW. I go for it on 4th down and dont mind educated risks though. A lot of the elite t14 grads will never admit it but are emotionally insecure and as a result get personal satisfaction by putting down non T20 schools and think any job paying below 160K at the start is shitlaw.

No.


Care to substantiate your terse rejection? Surprise me with something other than "No.".


I'm going with vanwinkle on this one.

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Doritos
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Doritos » Sat May 08, 2010 12:26 am

eagles86 wrote: A lot of the elite t14 grads will never admit it but are emotionally insecure and as a result get personal satisfaction by putting down non T20 schools and think any job paying below 160K at the start is shitlaw.


How do you know the emotional state of a lot of "elite t14 grads"? Seems like you would have to know a lot of people on a pretty personal level

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vanwinkle
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby vanwinkle » Sat May 08, 2010 12:29 am

Regionality wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
eagles86 wrote:Take the T30, the TLS crowd is ridiculously debt- averse. For most things, you have to take a risk to get a higher reward! Not everything is guaranteed like the T10 is in terms of job prospects. Of course avoiding overpriced schools like Seton Hall can be smart but i wouldnt hesitate paying sticker somewhere like GW. I go for it on 4th down and dont mind educated risks though. A lot of the elite t14 grads will never admit it but are emotionally insecure and as a result get personal satisfaction by putting down non T20 schools and think any job paying below 160K at the start is shitlaw.

No.

Care to substantiate your terse rejection? Surprise me with something other than "No.".

There are like eight things wrong with that paragraph. I'm not going to waste my time rebutting them all.

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Regionality
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Regionality » Sat May 08, 2010 12:30 am

Always Credited wrote:
Regionality wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
eagles86 wrote:Take the T30, the TLS crowd is ridiculously debt- averse. For most things, you have to take a risk to get a higher reward! Not everything is guaranteed like the T10 is in terms of job prospects. Of course avoiding overpriced schools like Seton Hall can be smart but i wouldnt hesitate paying sticker somewhere like GW. I go for it on 4th down and dont mind educated risks though. A lot of the elite t14 grads will never admit it but are emotionally insecure and as a result get personal satisfaction by putting down non T20 schools and think any job paying below 160K at the start is shitlaw.

No.


Care to substantiate your terse rejection? Surprise me with something other than "No.".


I'm going with vanwinkle on this one.


Many people on TLS think that if one cannot guarantee themselves a top law firm job that will for sure pay off their student debt in just a couple years it's not worth it to go to law school. These are such ridiculous claims. Plenty of people want to be lawyers because their careers are boring as crap and they want something that actually challenges themselves. It isn't all a purely financial investment for everyone...some people actually are passionate about issues.

Furthermore, taking on 100k+ in debt to get a JD (and for most of these threads the JD is coming from a T50, just not a T14 law school) is not an obviously terrible investment. I think that many folk on TLS think that if ones first legal job out of law school isn't able to pay off 30%+ of your student loans then they are destined to a life of indebted poverty...this is ridiculous. A legal career could easily be 30+ years...and that career would be nothing if someone didn't go to their "measly" T50 law school.

T50 law school + 50-75k yr after school + 30 year long career + 100k+ in debt DOES NOT EQUAL a bad decision.




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