T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

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GirlInTx
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T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 7:49 pm

I'm sure this has already been discussed here, but what is everyone's opinion on taking a free ride from a T4 school v. paying sticker for one of the lower T30 schools? (Boston, W&M, GWU)

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vanwinkle
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby vanwinkle » Fri May 07, 2010 7:52 pm

Free ride at many T4s is a waste of three years of your life. You'll be unemployable, unless you have connections to law practice already.

The question worth asking is typically T30 at sticker vs. not attending law school at all. There are pros and cons to both of these options, but really they're the only two that make sense ITE, unless you already have a job waiting for you.

Oh, and third possibility: If you can get into a T30 you can probably get significant money at a T2, and not have to worry about T4 schools.

imchuckbass58
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby imchuckbass58 » Fri May 07, 2010 7:53 pm

1) Where is the T4

2) Where is the T30

3) Where do you want to practice

4) What sort of work do you want to do

This is impossible to answer with out the above information. That said most people will probably say the T30 just from reflex (or "neither")

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 7:55 pm

vanwinkle wrote:Free ride at many T4s is a waste of three years of your life. You'll be unemployable, unless you have connections to law practice already.

The question worth asking is typically T30 at sticker vs. not attending law school at all. There are pros and cons to both of these options, but really they're the only two that make sense ITE, unless you already have a job waiting for you.

Oh, and third possibility: If you can get into a T30 you can probably get significant money at a T2, and not have to worry about T4 schools.


I realize 99% of the people here are hard up about "T14 or nothing" but c'mon. You really think its a better option to not attend law school at all then to pay sticker at a school like GWU?

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 8:00 pm

1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.
Last edited by GirlInTx on Fri May 07, 2010 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby bk1 » Fri May 07, 2010 8:02 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:Free ride at many T4s is a waste of three years of your life. You'll be unemployable, unless you have connections to law practice already.

The question worth asking is typically T30 at sticker vs. not attending law school at all. There are pros and cons to both of these options, but really they're the only two that make sense ITE, unless you already have a job waiting for you.

Oh, and third possibility: If you can get into a T30 you can probably get significant money at a T2, and not have to worry about T4 schools.


I realize 99% of the people here are hard up about "T14 or nothing" but c'mon. You really think its a better option to not attend law school at all then to pay sticker at a school like GWU?


Pretty sure you misread him.

Anyways, I would say T30 at sticker unless it is a T4 that is strong in its region and is a region where you want to be.
Last edited by bk1 on Fri May 07, 2010 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby vanwinkle » Fri May 07, 2010 8:02 pm

GirlInTx wrote:I realize 99% of the people here are hard up about "T14 or nothing" but c'mon. You really think its a better option to not attend law school at all then to pay sticker at a school like GWU?

Possibly. I said there are pros and cons to both sides, choosing between T30 at sticker and not attending, it depends on a few factors. What are your expectations when you graduate? Are you fully aware of what the job market is like right now? Do you have a job right now that pays well enough to support you?

If your goal is to get a JD and make bank kickin' back at a law firm, then yes, I think it's a better option to not go. A lot of people have unrealistic expectations like that. They think it's going to be like Boston Legal. You don't get to just stand around and smoke cigars with Captain Kirk at $900 an hour. Even if you're willing to put in the work to get paid, a lot of BigLaw firms just aren't hiring right now. At sticker you could end up going $180K into debt and working your ass off for three years to get a degree that doesn't get you anywhere near the kind of pay or benefits you actually wanted going in, or depending on how poorly you do, any job at all.

So it can be a better option to not attend, depending on the circumstances.

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Regionality
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Regionality » Fri May 07, 2010 8:04 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:Free ride at many T4s is a waste of three years of your life. You'll be unemployable, unless you have connections to law practice already.

The question worth asking is typically T30 at sticker vs. not attending law school at all. There are pros and cons to both of these options, but really they're the only two that make sense ITE, unless you already have a job waiting for you.

Oh, and third possibility: If you can get into a T30 you can probably get significant money at a T2, and not have to worry about T4 schools.


I realize 99% of the people here are hard up about "T14 or nothing" but c'mon. You really think its a better option to not attend law school at all then to pay sticker at a school like GWU?


Also sticker at W&M may be cheaper if they're in-state....furthermore some T30 public schools like Iowa, Davis, and maybe other states allow for the possibility of gaining residency and getting the equivalent of thousands in scholarships....worth considering as well. (I'm deposited at Iowa and after the first year one can get in-state and save 20k/yr)

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eandy
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby eandy » Fri May 07, 2010 8:06 pm

GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.


Really dude, you can get into a T14 if you apply early and really get a 177 on your LSAT. Get your score, then come back and ask. You are wasting all of our time right now.

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Regionality
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Regionality » Fri May 07, 2010 8:07 pm

eandy wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.


Really dude, you can get into a T14 if you apply early and really get a 177 on your LSAT. Get your score, then come back and ask. You are wasting all of our time right now.


WTF this is all hypothetical?

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vanwinkle
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby vanwinkle » Fri May 07, 2010 8:09 pm

GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.

South Texas will only place in the Houston market, if even there right now. GWU is not going to give you strong placement opportunities for corporate practice in either Houston or Chicago, going there makes almost no sense whatsoever. If you want to practice in Chicago you should be aiming desperately for schools like ND or UIUC, or maybe IU-B.

Understand that "corporate" for people fresh out of law school typically means "BigLaw associate". This is true for a couple reasons: BigLaw firms dwarf smaller firms in terms of how much hiring they do per year, and smaller firms sometimes fill their ranks exclusively with people who went to BigLaw and got some experience first. And the BigLaw hiring model is in chaos right now, with even a T30 school not being any guarantee of success in finding jobs.

Now may not be the time for you to go to law school. However, other posters are correct, if you can get into the high 170s on the actual LSAT, you have a chance at T14 schools even with that low GPA. Then you'll have some options for practicing in Chicago or Houston that you won't with the schools you're looking at now.

It's practically impossible to give sound advice without a real LSAT score. But for now, know that your LSAT score means everything, and your worthwhile options are severely limited if you don't get a high score.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 8:31 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:1) Where is the T4

The T4 would probably be South Texas. Their 25th/75th is 150/156 and I'm scoring at 177-178 on my PTs. Taking the exam in October. My GPA will hurt me. It's a 3.62 according to my University, but I have grades replaced from my freshmen year of partying so my LSAC is 2.82.

2) Where is the T30

I am considering GWU, assuming I can get in. I'm definitely not expecting $$. I'll just be happy with an acceptance due to my GPA. I realize GWU isn't Harvard, but surely a JD from GWU won't look bad on a resume.

3) Where do you want to practice

Houston or Chicago.

4) What sort of work do you want to do

Corporate.

South Texas will only place in the Houston market, if even there right now. GWU is not going to give you strong placement opportunities for corporate practice in either Houston or Chicago, going there makes almost no sense whatsoever. If you want to practice in Chicago you should be aiming desperately for schools like ND or UIUC, or maybe IU-B.

Understand that "corporate" for people fresh out of law school typically means "BigLaw associate". This is true for a couple reasons: BigLaw firms dwarf smaller firms in terms of how much hiring they do per year, and smaller firms sometimes fill their ranks exclusively with people who went to BigLaw and got some experience first. And the BigLaw hiring model is in chaos right now, with even a T30 school not being any guarantee of success in finding jobs.

Now may not be the time for you to go to law school. However, other posters are correct, if you can get into the high 170s on the actual LSAT, you have a chance at T14 schools even with that low GPA. Then you'll have some options for practicing in Chicago or Houston that you won't with the schools you're looking at now.

It's practically impossible to give sound advice without a real LSAT score. But for now, know that your LSAT score means everything, and your worthwhile options are severely limited if you don't get a high score.


I was already told by a few on TLS that I have slim to none chances at ND b/c of my GPA even if I get a 177.

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bk1
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby bk1 » Fri May 07, 2010 8:35 pm

From what I can recall, ND is very GPA-heavy. On the other hand, I believe that UIUC is fairly splitter-friendly.

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Always Credited
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 8:36 pm

lol @ this entirely hypothetical thread. Return with a real LSAT, ye heathen.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 8:43 pm

Always Credited wrote:lol @ this entirely hypothetical thread. Return with a real LSAT, ye heathen.


I will return with one in October and I'm sure you won't be saying that then. ;)

I am generally very good with standardized tests. I did well on my SATs (1480 back when it was 1600) considering I didn't prep for them like I am for the LSAT. I had one of the top TAKS scores in my HS class of about 900 students. I'm confident that I can get up to a 180 on my PTs since I'm waiting till October now to take the actual exam. I didn't register for any summer courses and chose to graduate in December so that I'd have all summer to study hard for this thing. I'm not expecting a perfect score, but I think a 177 is a realistic goal for me.

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Always Credited
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 8:47 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
Always Credited wrote:lol @ this entirely hypothetical thread. Return with a real LSAT, ye heathen.


I will return with one in October and I'm sure you won't be saying that then. ;)

I am generally very good with standardized tests. I did well on my SATs (1480 back when it was 1600) considering I didn't prep for them like I am for the LSAT. I had one of the top TAKS scores in my HS class of about 900 students. I'm confident that I can get up to a 180 on my PTs since I'm waiting till October now to take the actual exam. I didn't register for any summer courses and chose to graduate in December so that I'd have all summer to study hard for this thing. I'm not expecting a perfect score, but I think a 177 is a realistic goal for me.


Heathen only because posting with hypothetical LSATs is considered blasphemous in these parts. But your scores are great; score 170+ for reals, and you won't actually be facing the decision you're currently posting about, I promise.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 8:49 pm

Always Credited wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:
Always Credited wrote:lol @ this entirely hypothetical thread. Return with a real LSAT, ye heathen.


I will return with one in October and I'm sure you won't be saying that then. ;)

I am generally very good with standardized tests. I did well on my SATs (1480 back when it was 1600) considering I didn't prep for them like I am for the LSAT. I had one of the top TAKS scores in my HS class of about 900 students. I'm confident that I can get up to a 180 on my PTs since I'm waiting till October now to take the actual exam. I didn't register for any summer courses and chose to graduate in December so that I'd have all summer to study hard for this thing. I'm not expecting a perfect score, but I think a 177 is a realistic goal for me.


Heathen only because posting with hypothetical LSATs is considered blasphemous in these parts. But your scores are great; score 170+ for reals, and you won't actually be facing the decision you're currently posting about, I promise.


Did you overlook my GPA?

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Always Credited
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 8:51 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
Always Credited wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:
Always Credited wrote:lol @ this entirely hypothetical thread. Return with a real LSAT, ye heathen.


I will return with one in October and I'm sure you won't be saying that then. ;)

I am generally very good with standardized tests. I did well on my SATs (1480 back when it was 1600) considering I didn't prep for them like I am for the LSAT. I had one of the top TAKS scores in my HS class of about 900 students. I'm confident that I can get up to a 180 on my PTs since I'm waiting till October now to take the actual exam. I didn't register for any summer courses and chose to graduate in December so that I'd have all summer to study hard for this thing. I'm not expecting a perfect score, but I think a 177 is a realistic goal for me.


Heathen only because posting with hypothetical LSATs is considered blasphemous in these parts. But your scores are great; score 170+ for reals, and you won't actually be facing the decision you're currently posting about, I promise.


Did you overlook my GPA?


Some higher schools will take splitters, especially if your LSAT is beastly. UVA/NU are T14's who have taken sub-3.0 GPA's. If you manage a 177, you'll have some very good choices in front of you. Most of the T14 is likely out without significant work experience, but T20+UVA/NU isn't out of the question entirely.

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Doritos
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Doritos » Fri May 07, 2010 8:55 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
Always Credited wrote:
GirlInTx wrote:
Always Credited wrote:lol @ this entirely hypothetical thread. Return with a real LSAT, ye heathen.


I will return with one in October and I'm sure you won't be saying that then. ;)

I am generally very good with standardized tests. I did well on my SATs (1480 back when it was 1600) considering I didn't prep for them like I am for the LSAT. I had one of the top TAKS scores in my HS class of about 900 students. I'm confident that I can get up to a 180 on my PTs since I'm waiting till October now to take the actual exam. I didn't register for any summer courses and chose to graduate in December so that I'd have all summer to study hard for this thing. I'm not expecting a perfect score, but I think a 177 is a realistic goal for me.


Heathen only because posting with hypothetical LSATs is considered blasphemous in these parts. But your scores are great; score 170+ for reals, and you won't actually be facing the decision you're currently posting about, I promise.


Did you overlook my GPA?


There are several people on this very board who are attending lower end T14's with sub 3.0 GPA. They have 170+ LSATs and if you are able to get into the high 170's like the 177 you threw around you have a shot with an ED at the T14. But like everyone says until you get a real LSAT this is all moot

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BigA
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby BigA » Fri May 07, 2010 9:00 pm

Do you even know... Northwestern is the most splitter-friendly of all T14 schools, and perfect for the market you are looking for. 175+ would give you a good shot there at least.

This thread makes no sense. People who score 175+ don't go to T4s

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Always Credited
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 9:02 pm

BigA wrote:Do you even know... Northwestern is the most splitter-friendly of all T14 schools, and perfect for the market you are looking for. 175+ would give you a good shot there at least.

This thread makes no sense. People who score 175+ don't go to T4s


Or if they do, their Common Sense to Book Smarts ratio is radically out of proportion.

motiontodismiss
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby motiontodismiss » Fri May 07, 2010 9:10 pm

TTTT or HYSC?

With a 173+ there's no way you'll end up at a TTTT.
Last edited by motiontodismiss on Fri May 07, 2010 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

acdisagod
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby acdisagod » Fri May 07, 2010 9:11 pm

Please please pelase go to GW or another T30. Law school is expensive but it will be hard to find a non shitlaw job out of a T4. You will spend much of your awake life at work, put yourself in position to get a job you want to do. the extra 150K for the T30 is pretty insignificant when you realize you will be working for 40 + years.

GirlInTx
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby GirlInTx » Fri May 07, 2010 9:13 pm

motiontodismiss wrote:TTTT or HYSC?

With a 173+ there's no way you'll end up at a TTTT.



My ex somehow did. Free ride at California Western. He's a 3L right now so it hasn't been confirmed, but I'm thinking it was a dumb decision. He had the LSAT score and the GPA to go anywhere. I'm much more limited.

motiontodismiss
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Re: T30 sticker v. T4 free-ride

Postby motiontodismiss » Fri May 07, 2010 9:14 pm

GirlInTx wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:TTTT or HYSC?

With a 173+ there's no way you'll end up at a TTTT.



My ex somehow did. Free ride at California Western. He's a 3L right now so it hasn't been confirmed, but I'm thinking it was a dumb decision. He had the LSAT score and the GPA to go anywhere. I'm much more limited.


That DEFINITELY was a dumb decision. Top 30>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TTTT. Period. End of story.




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