T2 vs T4 need help choosing

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bella
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T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby bella » Thu May 06, 2010 10:54 pm

my dilemma...do you pick a T4 provisionally accredited school in an area with a growing economy or do you pick a T2 school in an area experiencing employment gridlock?????

Charlotte vs Gonzaga

Any help or advise is appreciated

fwaam
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby fwaam » Thu May 06, 2010 11:00 pm

I'm going to predict the rest of this thread right now. 90% of the answers will be, "Neither. Retake the LSAT." And there's something to be said for that--poor job prospects out of both of those schools.

If you insist on starting this fall, avoid schools that are provisionally accredited, if for no other reason than that they have no alumni network. They probably don't even have the resources to offer you money. You didn't mention a scholarship, so if it's the same price either way, you'll want the better-ranked school.

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DerrickRose
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby DerrickRose » Thu May 06, 2010 11:13 pm

fwaam wrote:"Neither. Retake the LSAT." And there's something to be said for that--poor job prospects out of both of those schools.

bella
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby bella » Thu May 06, 2010 11:20 pm

Charlotte offered a 12500/yr scholarship Gonzaga a 7000/yr scholarship....not retaking the lsat so if that's anyones advise just skip it :) and I'm not exactly looking for work at a huge law firm, so not worried about that.

lawschoollll
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby lawschoollll » Thu May 06, 2010 11:22 pm

If retaking is an option, choose it. If not, poke around the Legal Employment subforum on this site and just make sure you are 100% aware what you are getting into before you commit to a T2/3 (this goes double if you don't have any scholarship money).

Edit: what are the scholarships contingent on?

icydash
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby icydash » Thu May 06, 2010 11:27 pm

I really understand not wanting to retake the LSAT.... It's a horrible, horrible test. I also understand wanting to rush into law school and not properly doing enough research (I did this my first admissions cycle and almost made a really horrible mistake.) However, given the small scholarships you have at both the aforementioned schools, I really can't in good conscience tell you to go to either one. You're going to come out of LS with a massive amount of debt from both schools, and literally no job prospects (especially not from the T4 / not-yet-accredited school). Like I'm not kidding: You will not get a job where you can pay off the debt you'll have. Period.

Sorry, but people here are going to have to knock you over the head with the truth, even if you really, REALLY don't want to hear it: retake the LSAT. You'd be amazed at the difference in your options/life 5 LSAT points can make.

EDIT: And Gonzaga is ranked 100, so for all intensive purposes, it's really a T3.
Last edited by icydash on Thu May 06, 2010 11:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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creamedcats
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby creamedcats » Thu May 06, 2010 11:28 pm

DerrickRose wrote:
fwaam wrote:"Neither. Retake the LSAT." And there's something to be said for that--poor job prospects out of both of those schools.


Man, the job market is so bad right now...I have a huge scholarship at a high T2, and there are days where I think it might not be worth it. If I wasn't actually really interested in this stuff, I would go work at a startup instead.

Forget the T4 in any circumstance. Forget the T2 without money. Retake the LSAT. It's a few hours of your life (and, hopefully, some tens of hours of prep) for huge financial gain.

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webbylu87
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby webbylu87 » Thu May 06, 2010 11:36 pm

bella wrote:Charlotte offered a 12500/yr scholarship Gonzaga a 7000/yr scholarship....not retaking the lsat so if that's anyones advise just skip it :) and I'm not exactly looking for work at a huge law firm, so not worried about that.


Honestly, you need to retake or reconsider law school. Have you thoroughly researched the employment prospects from these schools and how you will handle the debt burden? I'm going into a large amount of debt for a T25 (Soon to be T20, UIUC? Yes?) and I'm freaking out about these things even considering I don't want biglaw either. You need some healthy fear in your life regarding the debt/job prospects. If you don't have that, something is very wrong.

I have a feeling that very few people on TLS are going to offer you advice you want to hear in this situation.

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DerrickRose
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby DerrickRose » Thu May 06, 2010 11:45 pm

webbylu87 wrote: (Soon to be T20, UIUC? Yes?)


If Illinois needs to be ridiculously shady about gaming their statistics like WUSTL to get into the T20 I say screw that.

Danteshek
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby Danteshek » Thu May 06, 2010 11:48 pm

Don't go to a for profit law school.

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webbylu87
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby webbylu87 » Thu May 06, 2010 11:49 pm

DerrickRose wrote:
webbylu87 wrote: (Soon to be T20, UIUC? Yes?)


If Illinois needs to be ridiculously shady about gaming their statistics like WUSTL to get into the T20 I say screw that.


Fair. The only reason I got in at Illinois (and with $ no less) is because Dean Pless doesn't game the stats like WUSTL does. I can appreciate this sentiment.

dispatch
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby dispatch » Thu May 06, 2010 11:52 pm

Danteshek wrote:Don't go to a for profit law school.

+1 (That's what Charlotte is, in case you didn't know)

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Always Credited
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 12:04 am

webbylu87 wrote:
DerrickRose wrote:
webbylu87 wrote: (Soon to be T20, UIUC? Yes?)


If Illinois needs to be ridiculously shady about gaming their statistics like WUSTL to get into the T20 I say screw that.


Fair. The only reason I got in at Illinois (and with $ no less) is because Dean Pless doesn't game the stats like WUSTL does. I can appreciate this sentiment.


Right - Pless won't game the stats, but the OCS will do it sure as shit. Plausible deniability, motherfucker.

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Grizz
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby Grizz » Fri May 07, 2010 12:06 am

--ImageRemoved--

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DerrickRose
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby DerrickRose » Fri May 07, 2010 12:08 am

Always Credited wrote:
webbylu87 wrote:
DerrickRose wrote:
webbylu87 wrote: (Soon to be T20, UIUC? Yes?)


If Illinois needs to be ridiculously shady about gaming their statistics like WUSTL to get into the T20 I say screw that.


Fair. The only reason I got in at Illinois (and with $ no less) is because Dean Pless doesn't game the stats like WUSTL does. I can appreciate this sentiment.


Right - Pless won't game the stats, but the OCS will do it sure as shit. Plausible deniability, motherfucker.


Other way around really. The admissions office knows the splitter game, but Career Services is more honest than most. Which is a bummer sometimes, but the truth is better than the alternative.

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Always Credited
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 12:12 am

Yeah...I meant more on the exit side of things. Gaming employment data is so easy its almost lulz at this point...its sad how few people actually even take the time to look at response rates. Or what exactly (legal jobs? non-legal jobs?) is actually included in the survey, and therefore the data.

I didn't commit to a school until I went there, looked at a copy of the actual exit survey to see what was asked and how it was asked, verified all the given numbers/statistics to be accurate, and found out reasons for anything less than a 100% response rate.

Research FTW!

icydash
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby icydash » Fri May 07, 2010 12:30 am

Always Credited wrote:I didn't commit to a school until I went there, looked at a copy of the actual exit survey to see what was asked and how it was asked, verified all the given numbers/statistics to be accurate, and found out reasons for anything less than a 100% response rate.

Research FTW!

Wow...you have WAY too much time on your hands :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Now can we please get this thread back on track with encouraging the OP to retake?

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Always Credited
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby Always Credited » Fri May 07, 2010 12:35 am

icydash wrote:
Always Credited wrote:I didn't commit to a school until I went there, looked at a copy of the actual exit survey to see what was asked and how it was asked, verified all the given numbers/statistics to be accurate, and found out reasons for anything less than a 100% response rate.

Research FTW!

Wow...you have WAY too much time on your hands :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Now can we please get this thread back on track with encouraging the OP to retake?


I agree. On both items.

Case2L
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby Case2L » Fri May 07, 2010 9:23 am

If you have to go to one or the other, go to Gonzaga. The campus is nice, that part of the country is beautiful, and they have a pretty good basketball program for a mid-major. I've been to Spokane, it really is a lovely city with a decent sized population in the metro area. Most UW-Seattle grads don't bother moving out there, and the only competition for miles is U of Idaho.

bella
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby bella » Fri May 07, 2010 6:16 pm

Case2L wrote:If you have to go to one or the other, go to Gonzaga. The campus is nice, that part of the country is beautiful, and they have a pretty good basketball program for a mid-major. I've been to Spokane, it really is a lovely city with a decent sized population in the metro area. Most UW-Seattle grads don't bother moving out there, and the only competition for miles is U of Idaho.



WOW a helpful response...Thanks for all the retake advise but its not happening...

Case2L does the lack of competition in Spokane make up for slower economic growth? NC Charlotte and Raleigh among others, are said to have growing economies...how much should this factor into my decision?

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Grizz
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby Grizz » Fri May 07, 2010 6:47 pm

bella wrote:WOW a helpful response...Thanks for all the retake advise but its not happening...

Case2L does the lack of competition in Spokane make up for slower economic growth? NC Charlotte and Raleigh among others, are said to have growing economies...how much should this factor into my decision?


In a school with barely any alums competing with the regional powerhouses of UNC and Wake, a growing economy will not save you, especially since there are people from UNC and Wake who would be happy to take ANY job, including the small firms/govt. jobs that you wold presumably be competing for from Charlotte. I can't speak about Gonzaga, but going to Charlotte, an unranked TTTT that costs an absurd $30,000 plus cost of living ranks up there with subprime mortgages on the scale of bad ideas. Even with your scholarship, you're looking at almost $100,000 in debt from this diploma mill, for a miniscule shot that you will make anywhere near enough to pay it back and/or keep you off food stamps. Charlotte was a bad idea pre-recession, and it's a bad idea now. I implore you to retake.

fwaam
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby fwaam » Fri May 07, 2010 9:13 pm

rad law wrote:
bella wrote:WOW a helpful response...Thanks for all the retake advise but its not happening...

Case2L does the lack of competition in Spokane make up for slower economic growth? NC Charlotte and Raleigh among others, are said to have growing economies...how much should this factor into my decision?


In a school with barely any alums competing with the regional powerhouses of UNC and Wake, a growing economy will not save you, especially since there are people from UNC and Wake who would be happy to take ANY job, including the small firms/govt. jobs that you wold presumably be competing for from Charlotte. I can't speak about Gonzaga, but going to Charlotte, an unranked TTTT that costs an absurd $30,000 plus cost of living ranks up there with subprime mortgages on the scale of bad ideas. Even with your scholarship, you're looking at almost $100,000 in debt from this diploma mill, for a miniscule shot that you will make anywhere near enough to pay it back and/or keep you off food stamps. Charlotte was a bad idea pre-recession, and it's a bad idea now. I implore you to retake.


+1. Jobs aren't so easy to come by right now. And everything you've heard about Charlotte's economy was pre-recession. You do realize the city is dominated by banking right?

Again: retaking really is your best option. If you aren't willing to put in the time to do that, how are you ever going to have the persistence and determination to get a job, let alone succeed as a lawyer?

But if you absolutely refuse to retake, be aware that Charlotte Law will get you nowhere but into debt. Thus, Gonzaga is the better of the two (poor) options.

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gwuorbust
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby gwuorbust » Fri May 07, 2010 11:11 pm

Case2L wrote:If you have to go to one or the other, go to Gonzaga. The campus is nice, that part of the country is beautiful, and they have a pretty good basketball program for a mid-major. I've been to Spokane, it really is a lovely city with a decent sized population in the metro area. Most UW-Seattle grads don't bother moving out there, and the only competition for miles is U of Idaho.


very solid advice.. make a life choice based off a college sports team :roll:

Colton
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby Colton » Fri May 07, 2010 11:19 pm

If its really down to these two and you're going to go to one, make it Gonzaga. Unless I'm wrong Charlotte is one of those for-profit law schools. Which makes it a horrendous idea.

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smartin
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Re: T2 vs T4 need help choosing

Postby smartin » Fri May 07, 2010 11:21 pm

OP, what's your aversion to retaking the LSAT?




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