Washington and Lee Vs. Illinois Forum

[DerrickRose]

Can I use the results from Law School Numbers as a negotiating tool?

I rejected a full scholarship from Hofstra. But other than that, no offers.. wait-lists and rejections.

My problem was that I aimed too high T20 and lower, with the exception of UF, UIUC, W&L, Hofstra, and UM. But I do not like UM, Hofstra or UF.

You definitely need to reapply and give some more thought to a better list of schools.

What are your goals and where to you want to be living when you achieve them?

[dispatch]

Can I use the results from Law School Numbers as a negotiating tool?

I rejected a full scholarship from Hofstra. But other than that, no offers.. wait-lists and rejections.

My problem was that I aimed too high T20 and lower, with the exception of UF, UIUC, W&L, Hofstra, and UM. But I do not like UM, Hofstra or UF.

I wouldn't quote lawschoolnumbers.com to an adcom, but I do think you could mention the full ride at Hofstra. Unless you already turned Hofstra down. Then it's not much of a bargaining tool.

Just say you're choosing between the two schools and money is an important issue. I bet if either school has any money left to give (and this late, that's a big if) they'd be happy to buy your GPA.

[fish35]

Can I use the results from Law School Numbers as a negotiating tool?

I rejected a full scholarship from Hofstra. But other than that, no offers.. wait-lists and rejections.

My problem was that I aimed too high T20 and lower, with the exception of UF, UIUC, W&L, Hofstra, and UM. But I do not like UM, Hofstra or UF.

You definitely need to reapply and give some more thought to a better list of schools.

What are your goals and where to you want to be living when you achieve them?

I know that I made a bad decision but thought I had a chance at Cornell, USC, UCLA.

My only goals are to get a job in corporate law, which I guess, translates into big law. I don't mind living somewhere like Chicago or DC. I am from the south so I don't know how much I will like living in Chicago during the winter, I have no idea how cold it can get.

I am not going to reapply, I will start school in 2010 and I will be contacting the admins in both schools soon.

[jmhendri]

You won't get money at W&L. They tell people flat out, no negotiating. I've heard of a few people with good numbers and leverage who ended up with the same answer.

I might just reaply in your position too. I'm beyond excited about Lexington, but if I thought I had half a chance at a T14 I might just wait it out for practicality's sake.

[fish35]

I wouldn't quote lawschoolnumbers.com to an adcom, but I do think you could mention the full ride at Hofstra. Unless you already turned Hofstra down. Then it's not much of a bargaining tool.

Just say you're choosing between the two schools and money is an important issue. I bet if either school has any money left to give (and this late, that's a big if) they'd be happy to buy your GPA.

I already withdrew from Hofstra. I will try and see if I can get any scholarship offers. I was just glad that I was accepted to both schools. I did not realize my numbers would get me money.

[fish35]

You won't get money at W&L. They tell people flat out, no negotiating. I've heard of a few people with good numbers and leverage who ended up with the same answer.

I might just reaply in your position too. I'm beyond excited about Lexington, but if I thought I had half a chance at a T14 I might just wait it out for practicality's sake.

I don't think I have a chance at a T14. Only wait-lists are at UVA & Columbia, rejected : Berkley, Duke, NYU, Yale, Harvard, UCLA, USC. I spent my money on my 1st deposits for UIUC and W&L, so I can't travel to either. I will wish for a scholarship and if not......no idea.

[FuManChusco]

This PDF isn't new and has 2008 in the file name, not 2009

Weird. Could have sworn I linked to something else. Edited original post. Thanks.

[DerrickRose]

Can I use the results from Law School Numbers as a negotiating tool?

I rejected a full scholarship from Hofstra. But other than that, no offers.. wait-lists and rejections.

My problem was that I aimed too high T20 and lower, with the exception of UF, UIUC, W&L, Hofstra, and UM. But I do not like UM, Hofstra or UF.

You definitely need to reapply and give some more thought to a better list of schools.

What are your goals and where to you want to be living when you achieve them?

I know that I made a bad decision but thought I had a chance at Cornell, USC, UCLA.

My only goals are to get a job in corporate law, which I guess, translates into big law. I don't mind living somewhere like Chicago or DC. I am from the south so I don't know how much I will like living in Chicago during the winter, I have no idea how cold it can get.

I am not going to reapply, I will start school in 2010 and I will be contacting the admins in both schools soon.

When I hear "corporate law" I hear, "I am going to law school for the money". Which is fine from a moral perspective, but in your case, horrendous from a financial perspective.

If you are Biglaw-or-bust, or are just generally looking at law school as a financial investment, you need to make absolutely sure of one of two things:
1. You go to a T14
2. You get significant scholarship assistance.

I got the latter from Illinois. I troll on here for them a lot because they're my alma mater and I love going to law school here, but I will be the first one to tell you that if you are looking at this from a money perspective Illinois is not worth sticker (and neither is W&L)

I can hear from your responses that you are a little strapped for cash. I'm imagining you thinking that law school is your path to financial success. I cannot stress to you enough that unless you fulfill one of the two qualifications above (and even sometimes if you do) that is NOT the case.

[creamedcats]

Strongly agreeing with the above. Why so desperate to go this year?

[domeafavor]

I made this exact choice last week, but I was fortunate enough to get $$ from Illinois. I visited both, and Illinois definitely seemed like it would be more fun and lively. The students were awesome and friendly. W&L is in a beautiful location, but I can't say much else for it. I don't want to pile on, but your numbers would have gotten you some $ had you applied earlier. I'd say contact Dean Pless and see if maybe he can do something for you, because I'm pretty sure W&L is tapped out.

Good luck!

[JCougar]

How old are you? Will it really set back your life plans if you can't go this year?

Seriously, you are throwing money down the drain by going this year when you could retake the LSAT and get near-full rides from the schools you are talking about. Just a two point increase in LSAT score and you can go for free to these places.

I can understand about the job thing sucking, but is it really worth spending an extra $100,000 just to go to school this year instead of next? Neither of these schools are a great bet for corporate law, so you can't count on anything more than a $60,000 salary after you graduate. Remember, in law school, you are not competing with the kind of people you competed with in undergrad to get your 3.91. You're competing with everybody else from other schools that got 3.91.

[fish35]

How old are you? Will it really set back your life plans if you can't go this year?

Seriously, you are throwing money down the drain by going this year when you could retake the LSAT and get near-full rides from the schools you are talking about. Just a two point increase in LSAT score and you can go for free to these places.

I can understand about the job thing sucking, but is it really worth spending an extra $100,000 just to go to school this year instead of next? Neither of these schools are a great bet for corporate law, so you can't count on anything more than a $60,000 salary after you graduate. Remember, in law school, you are not competing with the kind of people you competed with in undergrad to get your 3.91. You're competing with everybody else from other schools that got 3.91.

I am 28. But the sentiment is reapply next year. It's too late for th June Lsat, and I am not certain I will do much better on the LSAT. Should I sign up for the oct. Test and apply the day I get my scores?

If I were to not accept school this year, I will try and find a tutor or class that will help me improve my score. I am worried about the practice tests. I know if I retake them my scores will be skwed because I will remeber the answers.

Also, can I defer my acceptances and tell them why I am deferring?

I know it's not certain that I will get a good job and that the competition is higher but are the job prospects really that bad, even if I were in say the top 10%?

[JCougar]

How old are you? Will it really set back your life plans if you can't go this year?

Seriously, you are throwing money down the drain by going this year when you could retake the LSAT and get near-full rides from the schools you are talking about. Just a two point increase in LSAT score and you can go for free to these places.

I can understand about the job thing sucking, but is it really worth spending an extra $100,000 just to go to school this year instead of next? Neither of these schools are a great bet for corporate law, so you can't count on anything more than a $60,000 salary after you graduate. Remember, in law school, you are not competing with the kind of people you competed with in undergrad to get your 3.91. You're competing with everybody else from other schools that got 3.91.

I am 28. But the sentiment is reapply next year. It's too late for th June Lsat, and I am not certain I will do much better on the LSAT. Should I sign up for the oct. Test and apply the day I get my scores?

If I were to not accept school this year, I will try and find a tutor or class that will help me improve my score. I am worried about the practice tests. I know if I retake them my scores will be skwed because I will remeber the answers.

Also, can I defer my acceptances and tell them why I am deferring?

I know it's not certain that I will get a good job and that the competition is higher but are the job prospects really that bad, even if I were in say the top 10%?

You can definitely defer your acceptances. I'd like to add, though, that it's not too late to get some surprise scholarship money. Just because schools won't negotiate now doesn't mean they won't decide to give you money later on as their full schollies get pulled off the waitlists at better schools.

So there's no need to withdraw just yet -- but I would seriously start thinking about applying next year. You can take the October LSAT and still apply pretty early. Early enough that you'll still have optimal chances at those schools. You don't have to improve that much; with your GPA, a 166-167 is full-ride territory at Illinois and W&L, plus it will get you into the bottom of the T14. Or you can apply as soon as schools start accepting applications just so that they have your file all put together. They will see that you are signed up for a future LSAT, and will wait until they get that score to review your file, but if you have everything else in before that, you'll go complete the second they recieve that score update.

[fish35]

I would like to thank everyone for their advice.

I registered for the June LSAT. I think that last time I took the test I over-studied and that affected my performance, I pted in the 170's until test week... So I may have been worn out. I have all my strategies and test ideas still memorized so I feel like pts is all I need.

If I do better I will reapply. If not I will hopefully be able to negotiate money. I think that this is the best path for me.

Once again, thank you everyone for your guidance!!!

[JCougar]

I would like to thank everyone for their advice.

I registered for the June LSAT. I think that last time I took the test I over-studied and that affected my performance, I pted in the 170's until test week... So I may have been worn out. I have all my strategies and test ideas still memorized so I feel like pts is all I need.

If I do better I will reapply. If not I will hopefully be able to negotiate money. I think that this is the best path for me.

Once again, thank you everyone for your guidance!!!

Good luck!

With a pretty good score under your belt, that should take some of the pressure off and you should be able to knock it out of the park. That's pretty much what happened with me. I studied far less for my retakes, but I improved my score quite a bit simply because I was less nervous.

[creamedcats]

Glad you're retaking. Start studying today, and study hard. If you're working, take some time off. I know it's 'just a test' but the results have outsized importance. Powerscore bibles are the way to go. Good luck!

[KMaine]

You made the right decision. With only a tiny improvement, you should get significantly more $ and have a great shot at some amazing schools. Good luck!

[motiontodismiss]

1.) Forget about transferring. This should have zero impact on your decision.
2.) Here is the NLJ 250 Chart. It lists the percentage of graduates hired by NLJ 250 firms. Pretty sure this is from 2009. http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf
As you can see, Illinois is #25 with 26.7% of their graduates hired by NLJ 250 firms.
W&L is at #36 with 19.3% being hired.
3.) This is probably because Illinois does well in Chicago.
4.) ITE you probably shouldn't bank on biglaw from either of these schools. It very well could happen, but sticker is a high price to pay for the chance. What are your numbers?
5.) I voted Illinois
6.) IBDR (In Before Derrick Rose)

Thank you for the reply.
1) I really don't plan on transferring but just put that question in out of curiosity.
2). Both percentages are about what I thought they would be.
3). What about DC for W&L?
4). GPA 3.91 LSAT 165.
5). Thanks.
6). Derrick Rose is the man. I'm a heat fan but wanted to see Wade go to the Bulls so him and Rose can win a championship.......

Retake the LSAT and reapply. For the love of God.

Otherwise, UIUC.