Full tuition vs. better schools

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dylsco
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Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby dylsco » Wed May 05, 2010 5:59 pm

I have received the Kennedy Fellowship at the University of the Pacific McGeorge School of Law and it covers full tuition and tuition and lodging in Austria to take a class taught by Justice Anthony Kennedy. However, I am also in at American University, in a joint JD/MA program with their School of International Service, UNC - Chapel Hill and Notre Dame. I know I want to work on the east coast, probably DC, but not sure if I want to practice law in the private or public sector. A partner at a top 100 law firm in DC said I would have no problem getting to DC from McGeorge, but I am still skeptical. Should I take the full ride and become a fellow, go to the best school or go to the school in DC that would also give me a masters from a top 10 international affairs program?

amichig
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby amichig » Wed May 05, 2010 6:02 pm

Sorry, but I'd go to Notre Dame. Many more opportunities if you're set on DC.

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Snoopy1216
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby Snoopy1216 » Wed May 05, 2010 6:03 pm

amichig wrote:Sorry, but I'd go to Notre Dame. Many more opportunities [strike]if you're set on DC.[/strike]


+1, FTFY

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DerrickRose
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby DerrickRose » Wed May 05, 2010 6:15 pm

dylsco wrote:A partner at a top 100 law firm in DC said I would have no problem getting to DC from McGeorge


Give me more detail on that.

fwaam
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby fwaam » Wed May 05, 2010 6:17 pm

From what I've heard, American's job prospects are kinda lousy--there are several better schools in the DC area. And UNC is not a good call if you don't want to work in NC (especially if you're paying out-of-state tuition). So it seems like this one is really between Notre Dame and McGeorge.

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General Tso
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby General Tso » Wed May 05, 2010 6:19 pm

give us more details on why you think the MA in International Affairs will be a smart financial move and a smart career move. FYI - most employers stop counting the number of degrees on your wall at 2.

you are crazy if you don't attend UNC or ND. Probably ND. And you are crazy for even considering American and even more so for considering McGeorge.

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tadams86
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby tadams86 » Wed May 05, 2010 6:21 pm

McGeorge boasts quite a large DC alumni. I have no idea how big and/or accurate this is, but going to school for free is cool. Obviously ND has the name recognition. This is a tough call, good luck.

dylsco
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby dylsco » Wed May 05, 2010 6:24 pm

A partner at crowell & moring (a transnational law firm) in the DC office said that I would have little trouble going to DC from Mcgeorge, and when I posed this question to her she chose McGeorge. She said that everyone will know Kennedy has taught at McGeorge and that with it high ranking in international law and advocacy law, if i am near the top of my class, I should be able to get to DC. Additionally she said that anything that can distinguish yourself is a plas and while graduating from a more prestigious university helps, there are literally hundreds with that distinction, However, being a fellow will distinguish myself from most other individuals.

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DerrickRose
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby DerrickRose » Wed May 05, 2010 6:27 pm

dylsco wrote:A partner at crowell & moring (a transnational law firm) in the DC office said that I would have little trouble going to DC from Mcgeorge, and when I posed this question to her she chose McGeorge. She said that everyone will know Kennedy has taught at McGeorge and that with it high ranking in international law and advocacy law, if i am near the top of my class, I should be able to get to DC. Additionally she said that anything that can distinguish yourself is a plas and while graduating from a more prestigious university helps, there are literally hundreds with that distinction, However, being a fellow will distinguish myself from most other individuals.


This ends with you being top 20% at McGeorge and that guy sending you an e-mail that just says "LOL PWNED" as he hires a UVa grad for the job you think you can get.

Nat1018
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby Nat1018 » Wed May 05, 2010 6:28 pm

How much $$ did you get from ND and American? How much debt are you willing to take on?

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General Tso
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby General Tso » Wed May 05, 2010 6:32 pm

DerrickRose wrote:
dylsco wrote:A partner at crowell & moring (a transnational law firm) in the DC office said that I would have little trouble going to DC from Mcgeorge, and when I posed this question to her she chose McGeorge. She said that everyone will know Kennedy has taught at McGeorge and that with it high ranking in international law and advocacy law, if i am near the top of my class, I should be able to get to DC. Additionally she said that anything that can distinguish yourself is a plas and while graduating from a more prestigious university helps, there are literally hundreds with that distinction, However, being a fellow will distinguish myself from most other individuals.


This ends with you being top 20% at McGeorge and that guy sending you an e-mail that just says "LOL PWNED" as he hires a UVa grad for the job you think you can get.


Yeah, the scenario that lady told you involves you being top 5 at McGeorge (not top 5%, top 5 students). I attend a T1 CA school and have heard that the competition at CA T2s is brutal since everybody wants to transfer up.

Anecdotal, but I actually KNOW a guy at McGeorge trying to do international law. He is top 10% and on law review. His only 2L job offer? Unpaid internship in BANGALORE. Now that's international law for you! :lol:

dylsco
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby dylsco » Wed May 05, 2010 6:33 pm

I wanted to get a MA in international affairs, because my long term goal is to get into international policy development, not solely practice law. And American's School of International Service is the number one applied to school for international affairs programs and I feel it may be easier to enter the world of NGOs and think tanks with a masters concerning what I ultimately wish to be working in.

I got no money from any of the other schools. So I will be taking on the full debt roughly 150-180k. American will be 60k+ more because it is a four year program.

And if I do finish only in the top 20% then I don't really deserve to get a good job in DC, but that's left to be seen.
Last edited by dylsco on Wed May 05, 2010 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Informative
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby Informative » Wed May 05, 2010 6:33 pm

Minimizing debt is a pretty attractive thing ITE.

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General Tso
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby General Tso » Wed May 05, 2010 6:36 pm

dylsco wrote:I wanted to get a MA in international affairs, because my long term goal is to get into international policy development, not solely practice law. And American's School of International Service is the number one applied to school for international affairs programs and I feel it may be easier to enter the world of NGOs and think tanks with a masters concerning what I ultimately wish to be working in.

I got no money from any of the other schools. So I will be taking on the full debt. American will be 60k+ more because it is a four year program.

And if I do finish only in the top 20% then I don't really deserve to get a good job in DC, but that's left to be seen.


"the number 1 applied to"??? That's like saying Cooley is a great law school because it takes 1000 1Ls per year.

Look, if you want to do 'international policy and development', don't go to law school. Retake the GRE, get some international NGO experience, and apply for SAIS, SIPA, and KSG. The route you are taking is going to create more debt and more harm than benefit. You should only go to law school if you want to practice law. In the US.

dylsco
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby dylsco » Wed May 05, 2010 6:44 pm

SIS is a top 10 program for masters, and i got into SAIS after taking my GRE but decided i would prefer the law school route, american would comprise both routes. But what I take from your comments, as pertaining to my question, is don't go to american.

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General Tso
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby General Tso » Wed May 05, 2010 6:50 pm

dylsco wrote:SIS is a top 10 program for masters, and i got into SAIS after taking my GRE but decided i would prefer the law school route, american would comprise both routes. But what I take from your comments, as pertaining to my question, is don't go to american.


I wouldn't go to American. My impression is that "Top 10" means little in this international affairs sector. For international law, its pretty much T14 or bust, and I'm pretty sure that international affairs is "T3" or bust. SAIS is regarded as the #1 (or at least #2 compared to KSG) international affairs program in the country, maybe the world. A foreign service officer that came to my UG said that even Georgetown school of foreign service grads have fallen into disfavor with the federal government.

If I were you, I'd start SAIS and try to get into GULC or GW for law school on a concurrent basis. I am not sure if they would take you because they each have their own international affairs schools, but it's probably worth a shot.

eth3n
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby eth3n » Wed May 05, 2010 8:39 pm

General Tso wrote:Anecdotal, but I actually KNOW a guy at McGeorge trying to do international law. He is top 10% and on law review. His only 2L job offer? Unpaid internship in BANGALORE. Now that's international law for you! :lol:

This needs to be quoted for anyone outside of t6 that hopes to enter "international law" after graduation (assuming they don't speak mandarin cause damn there seem to be a lot of those jobs available). Bangalore... XD

Nat1018
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby Nat1018 » Wed May 05, 2010 8:50 pm

eth3n wrote:
General Tso wrote:Anecdotal, but I actually KNOW a guy at McGeorge trying to do international law. He is top 10% and on law review. His only 2L job offer? Unpaid internship in BANGALORE. Now that's international law for you! :lol:

This needs to be quoted for anyone outside of t6 that hopes to enter "international law" after graduation (assuming they don't speak mandarin cause damn there seem to be a lot of those jobs available). Bangalore... XD


There are various facets to international law...not just working in a foreign country. With "private" international law, you probably wont ever have to leave the country.

yabbadabbado
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Re: Full tuition vs. better schools

Postby yabbadabbado » Wed May 05, 2010 8:55 pm

General Tso wrote:Look, if you want to do 'international policy and development', don't go to law school. Retake the GRE, get some international NGO experience, and apply for SAIS, SIPA, and KSG. The route you are taking is going to create more debt and more harm than benefit. You should only go to law school if you want to practice law. In the US.


Agreed. Law school is a waste of time and $ for this sort of thing out of pretty much ANY law school, much less the ones you are considering.




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