Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

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JG Hall
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby JG Hall » Sun May 09, 2010 6:19 pm

I could be wrong, but all the parenting stuff aside, just be prepared to not really be close to most of your classmates. And given that you're moving to a city with no family/friend network and raising two kids, the entire prospect seems a bit like a lonely existence. I'm not saying that single parents aren't capable of making friends and having social lives -- just warning you that the main pool of perspective friends is a tad limited.

Edit: those that are older/with kids seem to be pretty established in New York prior to the start of law school, or are here with a SO who can pull a lot of weight.

krj02004
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby krj02004 » Sun May 09, 2010 6:33 pm

JG Hall wrote:I could be wrong, but all the parenting stuff aside, just be prepared to not really be close to most of your classmates. And given that you're moving to a city with no family/friend network and raising two kids, the entire prospect seems a bit like a lonely existence. I'm not saying that single parents aren't capable of making friends and having social lives -- just warning you that the main pool of perspective friends is a tad limited.

Edit: those that are older/with kids seem to be pretty established in New York prior to the start of law school, or are here with a SO who can pull a lot of weight.



Yeah... went through that already during Undergrad with my daughter when she was a baby. I had here right in the middle of the semester and came back 2 weeks later... my entire social life changed and so did my so-called friends. It was a difficult adjustment at first, but now I'm used to it. It's no biggied. I have plenty of friends of the "outside" that aren't in school that I network with and my kids play with their kids, etc.... This whole thing is a process and I know for 3 years going ot school and then spending the remaining time at home with my kids is going to be my life.


I'm perfectly OK with that... plenty of tiem to socialize when I'm out of school and my kids get older.

Renzo
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby Renzo » Sun May 09, 2010 6:39 pm

krj02004 wrote:
JG Hall wrote:I could be wrong, but all the parenting stuff aside, just be prepared to not really be close to most of your classmates. And given that you're moving to a city with no family/friend network and raising two kids, the entire prospect seems a bit like a lonely existence. I'm not saying that single parents aren't capable of making friends and having social lives -- just warning you that the main pool of perspective friends is a tad limited.

Edit: those that are older/with kids seem to be pretty established in New York prior to the start of law school, or are here with a SO who can pull a lot of weight.



Yeah... went through that already during Undergrad with my daughter when she was a baby. I had here right in the middle of the semester and came back 2 weeks later... my entire social life changed and so did my so-called friends. It was a difficult adjustment at first, but now I'm used to it. It's no biggied. I have plenty of friends of the "outside" that aren't in school that I network with and my kids play with their kids, etc.... This whole thing is a process and I know for 3 years going ot school and then spending the remaining time at home with my kids is going to be my life.


I'm perfectly OK with that... plenty of tiem to socialize when I'm out of school and my kids get older.

This will definitely, 100% certainly be less true in law school. Per capita, there will be far more older students, married students and parents than in undergrad. Still a small minority, but way more than undergrad.

Pearalegal
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby Pearalegal » Sun May 09, 2010 10:50 pm

lostjake wrote:Not really, its a great assumption, because I assume that 1L-3 she's going to have the baby sitter raise her kids because of school requirements, and then she's going to have about 200-300K in debt after. Now she can either get that big law job and then she'll work 12 hours a day and over weekends and have the same baby sitter raise her kids or she won't get the job and have 200K of debt hanging over her head and the kids will still be the poorest kids in school. I'm not seeing any benefit at all for her kids.


What an astonishingly astute observation. I really touched on a lot of concerns regarding this situation I hadn't thought of.

As the daughter of a mom who worked hellish hours and sacrificed a lot of her personal life in order to give me the sort of life she wanted for me, I guess I just overlooked all of these pitfalls.

First of all, I didn't realize that using the help of a babysitter made you a bad parent. Silly me. My mom hired a babysitter whenever she needed to make sure I was always safe and happy, and I obviously have deep-seated resentful feelings towards my mom for doing so. I certainly never, ever admired her for making my safety and happiness a priority when she had to study or work late hours to support me. Also, totally always felt like the person who came in for a few hours every few days or so to help me with homework or dinner was TOTALLY raising me as opposed to my mom.

When my mom had to work weekends to put money in my college fund, in order to give me the incredible gift of an almost debt-free college education...that use of a babysitter was SUCH a burden on me and really showed her shortfallings as a parent.

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lostjake
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby lostjake » Mon May 10, 2010 11:46 am

I was going to leave this thread alone, as it's pretty obvious that my advice isn't going to be considered. This thread wasn't an actual question so much as a 'I'm going to do A, tell me I'm doing the right thing to make myself feel better' thread. I would encourage the OP to seek the advice of a career guidance or pastor, giving them all of the numbers including real debt, years to complete, time away from home, and job prospects. TLS is more of a sounding board for those dead set on going to law school, most of which are 'special flowers' quite different from everyone else. The recent article saying that ~85% of people think they will find employment while only ~15% of their peers will says something about this. Now on to your post.

Also, totally always felt like the person who came in for a few hours every few days or so to help me with homework or dinner was TOTALLY raising me as opposed to my mom.


Maybe you didn't read the thread, but this person is going to be going to law school, in which classes are held more often than a few hours every few days or so. Bed times for children her age should be around 7pm, you could stretch that to 8 pm, but not past. Lets look at the timeline of a day:

Wake up 7am spend an hour with the kids before heading out for your 10am class
Finish your last class at 4, spend an hour getting home its now 5pm. So total you're spending 2-3 hours a day with your toddlers. As I'm sure most of the parents know when your kids are toddlers is probably the most important time in their life, as far as learning values and how fast they grow, and the OP is going to be spending 3-4 hours a day with them and the nanny would be spending 8 hours a day with them. Its not hard to see where most of the 'parenting' is coming from. Feel free to dispute this with some factual info, rather than how your mom had a baby sitter and now you're fine.

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SaintClarence27
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby SaintClarence27 » Mon May 10, 2010 12:19 pm

lostjake wrote:I was going to leave this thread alone, as it's pretty obvious that my advice isn't going to be considered. This thread wasn't an actual question so much as a 'I'm going to do A, tell me I'm doing the right thing to make myself feel better' thread. I would encourage the OP to seek the advice of a career guidance or pastor, giving them all of the numbers including real debt, years to complete, time away from home, and job prospects. TLS is more of a sounding board for those dead set on going to law school, most of which are 'special flowers' quite different from everyone else. The recent article saying that ~85% of people think they will find employment while only ~15% of their peers will says something about this. Now on to your post.

Also, totally always felt like the person who came in for a few hours every few days or so to help me with homework or dinner was TOTALLY raising me as opposed to my mom.


Maybe you didn't read the thread, but this person is going to be going to law school, in which classes are held more often than a few hours every few days or so. Bed times for children her age should be around 7pm, you could stretch that to 8 pm, but not past. Lets look at the timeline of a day:

Wake up 7am spend an hour with the kids before heading out for your 10am class
Finish your last class at 4, spend an hour getting home its now 5pm. So total you're spending 2-3 hours a day with your toddlers. As I'm sure most of the parents know when your kids are toddlers is probably the most important time in their life, as far as learning values and how fast they grow, and the OP is going to be spending 3-4 hours a day with them and the nanny would be spending 8 hours a day with them. Its not hard to see where most of the 'parenting' is coming from. Feel free to dispute this with some factual info, rather than how your mom had a baby sitter and now you're fine.


So your contention is that any parent with toddlers who works a 9-5 job is a bad parent? Or is that line only drawn for women?

Renzo
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby Renzo » Mon May 10, 2010 12:24 pm

lostjake wrote: I would encourage the OP to seek the advice of a career guidance or pastor, giving them all of the numbers including real debt, years to complete, time away from home, and job prospects.

You lost me here. I'm supposed to go ask a priest for financial advising and career outlook information?

fortissimo
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby fortissimo » Mon May 10, 2010 12:40 pm

Biglaw is not guaranteed from Columbia. So unless you are willing to shell out 250k+ with the risk of not landing a high paying job (including COL, to be honest, it will probably be more), then go for it.

This isn't HYS. This is fucking Columbia. I wouldn't spend over 200k (and I am not spending over 200k) to go to law school, let alone 250k. I don't have kids. I am probably less debt averse as a non-parent because I don't have mouths to feed and don't have to worry as much about being broke and living in a shitty apartment, but seriously...who the fuck wants to shell out 250k when the chance at a high paying job isn't even guaranteed. This is law school, not med school. Lawyers are disposable.

I don't really think it's just about the time she spends with her kids. Both my parents worked full-time and I spent most of my life at school/babysitter, so whatever, but it's about the massive amount of debt the OP will be in with no guaranteed high paying job. Unless the OP is fine with using LRAP/IBR, getting a shitty PI job with low pay, dedicating 10+ years to this job, then whatever, go for it. But a high paying job is far from guaranteed. And I don't know how much time the OP can dedicate to studying as a single parent with toddlers to make good grades. A lot of male parents at my school can put in a ton of time to study because they just basically toss their child to their wives, but as a single parent (a mother, arguably a much harder job than a father) it will be much more difficult.

holborn
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby holborn » Mon May 10, 2010 12:51 pm

SaintClarence27 wrote:
lostjake wrote:I was going to leave this thread alone, as it's pretty obvious that my advice isn't going to be considered. This thread wasn't an actual question so much as a 'I'm going to do A, tell me I'm doing the right thing to make myself feel better' thread. I would encourage the OP to seek the advice of a career guidance or pastor, giving them all of the numbers including real debt, years to complete, time away from home, and job prospects. TLS is more of a sounding board for those dead set on going to law school, most of which are 'special flowers' quite different from everyone else. The recent article saying that ~85% of people think they will find employment while only ~15% of their peers will says something about this. Now on to your post.

Also, totally always felt like the person who came in for a few hours every few days or so to help me with homework or dinner was TOTALLY raising me as opposed to my mom.


Maybe you didn't read the thread, but this person is going to be going to law school, in which classes are held more often than a few hours every few days or so. Bed times for children her age should be around 7pm, you could stretch that to 8 pm, but not past. Lets look at the timeline of a day:

Wake up 7am spend an hour with the kids before heading out for your 10am class
Finish your last class at 4, spend an hour getting home its now 5pm. So total you're spending 2-3 hours a day with your toddlers. As I'm sure most of the parents know when your kids are toddlers is probably the most important time in their life, as far as learning values and how fast they grow, and the OP is going to be spending 3-4 hours a day with them and the nanny would be spending 8 hours a day with them. Its not hard to see where most of the 'parenting' is coming from. Feel free to dispute this with some factual info, rather than how your mom had a baby sitter and now you're fine.


So your contention is that any parent with toddlers who works a 9-5 job is a bad parent? Or is that line only drawn for women?


oh snap

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bceagles182
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby bceagles182 » Mon May 10, 2010 12:55 pm

NYC is a fine place to raise kids but only if you have the money to put them through private schools. There are certain areas that are much more kid friendly than others (but they're more expensive). If you need help with that then I'm happy to give you more information.
Last edited by bceagles182 on Mon May 10, 2010 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SaintClarence27
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby SaintClarence27 » Mon May 10, 2010 12:56 pm

Renzo wrote:
lostjake wrote: I would encourage the OP to seek the advice of a career guidance or pastor, giving them all of the numbers including real debt, years to complete, time away from home, and job prospects.

You lost me here. I'm supposed to go ask a priest for financial advising and career outlook information?


He wants the pastor to tell her that she should stay home with the children, ideally barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

Renzo
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby Renzo » Mon May 10, 2010 1:04 pm

SaintClarence27 wrote:
Renzo wrote:
lostjake wrote: I would encourage the OP to seek the advice of a career guidance or pastor, giving them all of the numbers including real debt, years to complete, time away from home, and job prospects.

You lost me here. I'm supposed to go ask a priest for financial advising and career outlook information?


He wants the pastor to tell her that she should stay home with the children, ideally barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

Yeah, I know. I just wanted him to say that.

krj02004
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby krj02004 » Mon May 10, 2010 1:26 pm

Dear lostjake... you are truly that: LOST. I think it a wise decision for you to leave this thread... I didn't ask about anyone's opinion on what a women's "place" is if she has children. It was about choosing a law school. I am going... that is a fact. There is nothing and NO ONE who is going to change my mind.

But thank you for motivating me more to succeed in school. It's a-holes like you that drive me to succeed and keep proving you wrong... not that i need to prove anything to people like you.

God I feel sorry for your future wife. Do society a favor and don't procreate!

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lostjake
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby lostjake » Mon May 10, 2010 1:48 pm

.
Last edited by lostjake on Mon May 10, 2010 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

holborn
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby holborn » Mon May 10, 2010 1:55 pm

lostjake wrote:Using a quotation mark would seem to imply that I stated what I thought your "place" was, which I did not. Thank you for the insult about my children. My wife is currently pregnant, and is a senior engineer, and wants to stay at home with our kids. I can make insults too: Hopefully your future decisions will be better than the ones that have left you divorced and with two toddlers, wondering if taking on 300K worth of debt is a good idea.

Maybe you should see a pastor, unless you're too closed minded to take advice from anyone besides the people on this forum.


congrats to you and your wife. However i fail to see why what might be right for your family (her staying home) is the only appropriate or right decision for every family.

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SaintClarence27
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby SaintClarence27 » Mon May 10, 2010 2:03 pm

lostjake wrote:Using a quotation mark would seem to imply that I stated what I thought your "place" was, which I did not. Thank you for the insult about my children. My wife is currently pregnant, and is a senior engineer, and wants to stay at home with our kids. I can make insults too: Hopefully your future decisions will be better than the ones that have left you divorced and with two toddlers, wondering if taking on 300K worth of debt is a good idea.

Maybe you should see a pastor, unless you're too closed minded to take advice from anyone besides the people on this forum.


Perhaps the advice that you all too freely gave was not what she was asking for. She wasn't asking if she should go to Law School. She wasn't asking if law school was going to be a detriment to her children. She was asking about the family-friendliness and cost of the Columbia area. Then you thought it was important to place your 1950 values system on her, then FURTHER thought it prudent to blame her for getting pregnant and divorced in the first place. Nice. I'm not surprised that your wife "wants" to stay home with the kids.

Perhaps you should see a pastor about your misogynistic tendencies. Even better - how about a therapist?

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lostjake
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby lostjake » Mon May 10, 2010 2:04 pm

I never said that staying at home was always the right thing to do, I was speaking in this specific case, where the OP is going to be taking on so much debt for a chance at a job. Her decision is going to be not only affecting her, but her children and their future. It seems she has her mind made up, and I wish her luck. Keep us posted on how its going, I'm always open to being proven wrong.

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lebob
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby lebob » Mon May 10, 2010 2:17 pm

i think lost jake's stuff could be kinda taken wrong,
i'm not supporting him, but come on cut him some slack, he just gave an honest opinion,

misogynistic??? seriously???

anyway, let's be happy yayayay

krj02004
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby krj02004 » Mon May 10, 2010 3:28 pm

lostjake wrote:I never said that staying at home was always the right thing to do, I was speaking in this specific case, where the OP is going to be taking on so much debt for a chance at a job. Her decision is going to be not only affecting her, but her children and their future. It seems she has her mind made up, and I wish her luck. Keep us posted on how its going, I'm always open to being proven wrong.



Can you be open to just going away? Your comments are plain rude, unappreciated, and off-topic. You don't know me, my family, my value system, or why I am divorced (not that it is any of your business). Why don't you apply your Christian values to your own life. In fact I will leave you with advice from the best "Pastor" that ever lived: "Judge Not...."

I see you may have already reflected on those specific words of wisdom since you've deleted your previous offensive comment.

Pearalegal
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby Pearalegal » Mon May 10, 2010 3:31 pm

SaintClarence27 wrote:
lostjake wrote:
Maybe you didn't read the thread, but this person is going to be going to law school, in which classes are held more often than a few hours every few days or so. Bed times for children her age should be around 7pm, you could stretch that to 8 pm, but not past. Lets look at the timeline of a day:

Wake up 7am spend an hour with the kids before heading out for your 10am class
Finish your last class at 4, spend an hour getting home its now 5pm. So total you're spending 2-3 hours a day with your toddlers. As I'm sure most of the parents know when your kids are toddlers is probably the most important time in their life, as far as learning values and how fast they grow, and the OP is going to be spending 3-4 hours a day with them and the nanny would be spending 8 hours a day with them. Its not hard to see where most of the 'parenting' is coming from. Feel free to dispute this with some factual info, rather than how your mom had a baby sitter and now you're fine.


So your contention is that any parent with toddlers who works a 9-5 job is a bad parent? Or is that line only drawn for women?


My response in their response. Its great that you and your wife have the ability to have a parent at home, but most people don't have that option.

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paratactical
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby paratactical » Mon May 10, 2010 3:41 pm

Shame you didn't start a thread asking if it was a bad idea to pop out two kids on your own where someone could have taught you about condoms.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Mon May 10, 2010 3:45 pm

paratactical wrote:Shame you didn't start a thread asking if it was a bad idea to pop out two kids on your own where someone could have taught you about condoms.

or abortions amirite

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JTX
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby JTX » Mon May 10, 2010 3:46 pm

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:
paratactical wrote:Shame you didn't start a thread asking if it was a bad idea to pop out two kids on your own where someone could have taught you about condoms.

or abortions amirite


sell kids, finance school. when you land BigLaw, just buy them back.

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Clint Eastwood
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby Clint Eastwood » Mon May 10, 2010 3:49 pm

Pick a part-time program in a cheaper area.

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JTX
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Re: Columbia Law...Bad idea to move a family there?

Postby JTX » Mon May 10, 2010 3:50 pm

Clint Eastwood wrote:Pick a part-time program in a cheaper area.



would you say that to a single man with 2 toddlers? you are a sexist pig.




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