Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

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270910
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby 270910 » Thu May 06, 2010 10:47 am

lostjake wrote:Does it really matter if they section stack or not? Considering most people say that the LSAT and UGPA doesn't predict Law school GPA why does it matter?


It would matter mathematically if 60% of a section had scholarships that would disappear if they failed to finish in the top 30%.

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lostjake
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby lostjake » Thu May 06, 2010 10:56 am

Maybe? You'd need hard data to back that up. Its possible that if sections weren't stack that 100% of people could lose their scholarship. Maybe the school is doing people a favor by section stacking?

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lostjake
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby lostjake » Thu May 06, 2010 11:06 am

A good example would be taking three sections and say the cut off point was top 30%. Lets say 33% of the people are offered scholarships and grades are totally random. 100 people per section.

Example 1: Totally section stacked
Section A: Contains 100% scholarship--> 30% retain scholarship (30 people)
Section B: -->0%
Section C: -->0%

Example 2: No section stacking
Section A: Contains 33 people with scholarship * .3 (odds of getting top 30%) --> 9.9% (9.9 people) of being top 30%
Section B: Same
Section C: Contains 34 people with scholarship *.3(odds of getting top 30%) --> 10.2% (10.2 people)

Same for both

Although in example 2 all people with scholarship could lose it?

Clair1331
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby Clair1331 » Thu May 06, 2010 11:17 am

[quote="lostjake"]A good example would be taking three sections and say the cut off point was top 30%. Lets say 33% of the people are offered scholarships and grades are totally random. 100 people per section.

Example 1: Totally section stacked
Section A: Contains 100% scholarship--> 30% retain scholarship (30 people)
Section B: -->0%
Section C: -->0%

Example 2: No section stacking
Section A: Contains 33 people with scholarship * .3 (odds of getting top 30%) --> 9.9% (9.9 people) of being top 30%
Section B: Same
Section C: Contains 34 people with scholarship *.3(odds of getting top 30%) --> 10.2% (10.2 people)

Same for both

Although in example 2 all people with scholarship could lose it?[/quote]

Your example is by random chance; all the people in every section has an equal chance of being in the top 30%, which may or may not be true. It might be more likely that those with scholarships will work significantly harder, giving them a higher likelihood of being in the top third.

icydash
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby icydash » Thu May 06, 2010 11:27 am

lostjake wrote:A good example would be taking three sections and say the cut off point was top 30%. Lets say 33% of the people are offered scholarships and grades are totally random. 100 people per section.

Example 1: Totally section stacked
Section A: Contains 100% scholarship--> 30% retain scholarship (30 people)
Section B: -->0%
Section C: -->0%

Example 2: No section stacking
Section A: Contains 33 people with scholarship * .3 (odds of getting top 30%) --> 9.9% (9.9 people) of being top 30%
Section B: Same
Section C: Contains 34 people with scholarship *.3(odds of getting top 30%) --> 10.2% (10.2 people)

Same for both

Although in example 2 all people with scholarship could lose it?


I'm not sure that I fully believe your UGPA/LSAT combination have -no- effect on how well you do your 1L year in law school. While you can't put an exact number on it, I'm sure the people with higher UGPA/LSAT combinations (and scholarships sometimes) tend to do better overall their 1L year than their peers with lower #s. Whether there's a direct correlation, or something more indirect like "people with higher LSAT/UGPA combos work harder and thus do better" I can't say.... But it would still seem that the scholarship student with a 3.7 and 166 has a higher chance of success at BLS.

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sophistry
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby sophistry » Thu May 06, 2010 12:02 pm

Just FYI - Last year 47% of students lost at least some portion of their scholarship after 1L. BLS gave out scholarships to 44% of students (all with the "top 40%" stipulation). BLS provided these statistics.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu May 06, 2010 12:07 pm

sophistry wrote:Just FYI - Last year 47% of students lost at least some portion of their scholarship after 1L. BLS gave out scholarships to 44% of students (all with the "top 40%" stipulation). BLS provided these statistics.



So somewhere around half of all scholarship recipients lose their scholarships?

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bernie shmegma
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby bernie shmegma » Thu May 06, 2010 12:15 pm

hombredulce wrote:
sophistry wrote:Just FYI - Last year 47% of students lost at least some portion of their scholarship after 1L. BLS gave out scholarships to 44% of students (all with the "top 40%" stipulation). BLS provided these statistics.



So somewhere around half of all scholarship recipients lose their scholarships?


At least some of it, apparently.

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Thu May 06, 2010 12:22 pm

hombredulce wrote:
sophistry wrote:Just FYI - Last year 47% of students lost at least some portion of their scholarship after 1L. BLS gave out scholarships to 44% of students (all with the "top 40%" stipulation). BLS provided these statistics.



So somewhere around half of all scholarship recipients lose their scholarships?


It isn't all or nothing. If you are in the top40% you keep the whole thing, if you are in the top 55% you keep 80% of your money, and if you are in the top 65% you get to keep just 55%. If you fall into the bottom 35% you lose your whole amount. You can regain your scholarship through maintaining the higher % of the class in your 2L year.

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sophistry
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby sophistry » Thu May 06, 2010 12:29 pm

Mr. Pablo wrote:
hombredulce wrote:
sophistry wrote:Just FYI - Last year 47% of students lost at least some portion of their scholarship after 1L. BLS gave out scholarships to 44% of students (all with the "top 40%" stipulation). BLS provided these statistics.



So somewhere around half of all scholarship recipients lose their scholarships?


It isn't all or nothing. If you are in the top40% you keep the whole thing, if you are in the top 55% you keep 80% of your money, and if you are in the top 65% you get to keep just 55%. If you fall into the bottom 35% you lose your whole amount. You can regain your scholarship through maintaining the higher % of the class in your 2L year.


Right. Sorry, should have included the remainder: 27% last year lost all of their scholarships.

270910
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby 270910 » Thu May 06, 2010 12:50 pm

sophistry wrote:Right. Sorry, should have included the remainder: 27% last year lost all of their scholarships.


Brooklyn Law School: We may not get you a good legal job, but we will leave you impressed with our ability to take money from you.

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ovinus
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby ovinus » Thu May 06, 2010 2:46 pm

Here is a quote from BLS website about Merit Scholarship Renewal (this information is also written in the letter sent to a scholarship recipient).

"Original merit scholarships are renewable in full for each subsequent year of enrollment, provided that you maintain a cumulative academic rank within the upper 40% of your graduating class (all full-time and part-time students with a common anticipated graduation date) at the end of each spring semester."

Can somebody, please explain to me why it even matters which section you are in if your ranking is being compared to ALL students in the full-time and part-time division? It really doesn't matter, unless there is something I totally misunderstood.

270910
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby 270910 » Thu May 06, 2010 2:50 pm

ovinus wrote:Here is a quote from BLS website about Merit Scholarship Renewal (this information is also written in the letter sent to a scholarship recipient).

"Original merit scholarships are renewable in full for each subsequent year of enrollment, provided that you maintain a cumulative academic rank within the upper 40% of your graduating class (all full-time and part-time students with a common anticipated graduation date) at the end of each spring semester."

Can somebody, please explain to me why it even matters which section you are in if your ranking is being compared to ALL students in the full-time and part-time division? It really doesn't matter, unless there is something I totally misunderstood.


Because you're curved against your section.

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Fri May 07, 2010 12:08 am

I'm not sure how rational or reasonable this is going to sound, but I'm going to try anyway:
I am going to attend BLS with a significant scholarship. I am doing it for a variety of reasons, not the least being that it provides me the best opportunity to do what I want ( I don't have many other options due to my unusual circumstance, its a long story and it isn't really worth recounting ). I look at it this way (and this may not work for other people, but it works for me): If I do well enough to keep my scholarship then I should have a decent shot at landing a legal job, if I do not do well enough to keep my scholarship at BLS then I doubt that I would have done well enough at any school within my reach to land a legal job.
I probably feel that way because it's my best opportunity, and I might feel different if I were faced with a choice between say, GWU and BLS (to live and work in NYC- not necessarily biglaw, but because I love NYC ), but I'm not. I just feel like if I do well, I will do well anywhere, but if I suck I will suck anywhere.
I think it comes down to the level of confidence you have in yourself and your school options and the opportunities that those schools represent.
I doubt this post resolves anything, but I though I would go for it.

Northsurfer01
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Re: Brooklyn Law: Is Section Stacking a Real Problem?

Postby Northsurfer01 » Fri May 07, 2010 12:46 am

T14_Scholly wrote:Who posts questions for their friends on TLS? I think OP is talking about himself.


Naw, I'm a 2L at UConn.




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