Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

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zreinhar
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Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby zreinhar » Sat May 01, 2010 12:43 pm

So my work just told me that they entirely pay for my MSEE from USC (online) ~40k, which I will start this summer. I am also starting at Georgia State PT this fall. The plan is to take 2 classes over the summer when I have no law classes and one class a semester when I have law school classes. Thoughts? Insults? I was previously open to the idea of transferring from GSU (and yes I know all the rules about going to a scholo expecting to transfer) but given that I will be trying to take engineering and law classes concurrently, I serioulst doubt (much more than my normal serious doubt) that I will be able to be in a position to do that...

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Aeroplane
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby Aeroplane » Sat May 01, 2010 12:48 pm

Are you going to be working FT too?

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zreinhar
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby zreinhar » Sat May 01, 2010 12:56 pm

Yeah, 7am-4pm... that will give me time to get to GSU at night, and I can do the MSEE work (one class isn't all that much work) on lunch breaks and whatever is left over on the weekends with my GSU assignments, for example this fall I have K's, Prop, a legal bib class (pass/fail) and an LRW class, Ill be taking that along with control systems onoine (A class I already took during undergrad) so it'll be a little easier.

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Aeroplane
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby Aeroplane » Sat May 01, 2010 12:59 pm

Just my opinion, YMMV.

Taking two MS classes while working is doable. I've done it.

Taking 2 law school classes + legal research + 1 online MS class would be totally doable I think for someone who wasn't working or was working part-time (<20 hrs/week).

What you are proposing is doable IMO if and only if you absolutely don't care about your law school grades or your MS grades and just want to obtain both degrees.

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legalease9
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby legalease9 » Sat May 01, 2010 1:01 pm

Your chances of doing well in either school are very low if you overwork yourself this much. You will pass, sure, but I'm not sure half-assing a law degree (and you WILL half ass it if you are working full time and doing engineering school), makes the law degree worth it. Crap Grades from Georgia State will not get you any jobs. I'm not sure as to the value of crap-but-passing grades from an engineering school.

It sounds like you are trying to go down two career paths at the same time. You should really make a decision as to which career you want to do, and focus upon that. Not to say such a decision will be easy...

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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby 270910 » Sat May 01, 2010 1:03 pm

legalease9 wrote:Your chances of doing well in either school are very low if you overwork yourself this much. You will pass, sure, but I'm not sure half-assing a law degree (and you WILL half ass it if you are working full time and doing engineering school), makes the law degree worth it. Crap Grades from Georgia State will not get you any jobs. I'm not sure as to the value of crap-but-passing grades from an engineering school.

It sounds like you are trying to go down two career paths at the same time. You should really make a decision as to which career you want to do, and focus upon that. Not to say such a decision will be easy...

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legalease9
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby legalease9 » Sat May 01, 2010 1:05 pm

Oh, and how do you like your current job? Is it Engineering work? If you like it I would choose Engineering over law, simply because you have a locked in job with an employer that is pleased enough with you to invest 40k in educating you. Law prospects will not be this golden.

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Matthies
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby Matthies » Sat May 01, 2010 1:13 pm

It can be done, and you can still do well. I was part-time ad many of my classmates worked fulltime and many 60+ hours a week, one did all this as well as being a single mother of 3 and finishing her MS while doing 1st year. She graduated 2nd in the class. You need to be A- extremely good at time management, B - quicker at picking up this stuff, C - be willing to have little life outside school for the first 1.5 years, after that 2L, 3L, and 4L really don't take much work if you know what you're doing, to still get top grades.

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zreinhar
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby zreinhar » Sat May 01, 2010 1:17 pm

disco_barred wrote:
legalease9 wrote:Your chances of doing well in either school are very low if you overwork yourself this much. You will pass, sure, but I'm not sure half-assing a law degree (and you WILL half ass it if you are working full time and doing engineering school), makes the law degree worth it. Crap Grades from Georgia State will not get you any jobs. I'm not sure as to the value of crap-but-passing grades from an engineering school.

It sounds like you are trying to go down two career paths at the same time. You should really make a decision as to which career you want to do, and focus upon that. Not to say such a decision will be easy...


I have, Im gonna do IP law (actuall taking the Patent Bar in a month) Hence, the MSEE and the JD. Also, for reference, I will not be doing the MSEE my entire Law School Career. Only the equivalent of the first year. As far as handling the courseload and working, I obivoulsy did undergrad engineering and finished my degree taking between 8-12 hours (plus labs) while working full time and it wasnt hard at all. I realize law school is a different animal, given this I will be working much harder than I did at my UG. Also, I will only be trying to get the MSEE (read, dont care about grades, just want a >3.0) And will be working hard fore the law school stuff. I guess the real benefit here is that I have a little leeway, at GSU PT the 1L takes up two years, 4 semesters. So if I bomb my first semester than I will probably change my plans and just focus on law school, but if I can somehow manage, then I'll stay...

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dextermorgan
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby dextermorgan » Sat May 01, 2010 1:20 pm

You have balls sir.

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zreinhar
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby zreinhar » Sat May 01, 2010 1:23 pm

legalease9 wrote:Oh, and how do you like your current job? Is it Engineering work? If you like it I would choose Engineering over law, simply because you have a locked in job with an employer that is pleased enough with you to invest 40k in educating you. Law prospects will not be this golden.


Haha, yeah I really do like my job, but I have been in engineering now for close to 3 years and am already getting tired of it. I also have IP experience and am doing part time IP work for a local bio-tech company. So I know I will like it, and I have work exp too. (hence the seeming lack of worry about law school) Im going to really try my all to get a student associateship with finnegan here in atlanta, but if that doesnt pan out, then oh well.

Matthies wrote:It can be done, and you can still do well. I was part-time ad many of my classmates worked fulltime and many 60+ hours a week, one did all this as well as being a single mother of 3 and finishing her MS while doing 1st year. She graduated 2nd in the class. You need to be A- extremely good at time management, B - quicker at picking up this stuff, C - be willing to have little life outside school for the first 1.5 years, after that 2L, 3L, and 4L really don't take much work if you know what you're doing, to still get top grades.


Yhea, but I also understand how anecdotal these are and how much weight to put in them. A little background might help. I am a borderline insomniac. I sleep about 4 hours a night. So I have alot of free time. Thats one of the reasons I think I can handle this. The other is that I am really passionate about this stuff. I have really enjoyed what I have read through already pertaining to law and LS. (GTM, Delaneys and LSC) I have also read through cases and stuff just so I can see what it's like when I have to really do it. and Motivation won't be a problem. Lastly, the real big point here is that I am NOT going to go into any real debt pursuing it. Thats the only reason Im considering it.

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DOOM
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby DOOM » Sat May 01, 2010 1:24 pm

the only comment I feel qualified to make is to just keep in mind some of the difficulties of your online coursework. Without a regularly scheduled lecture or discussion meetup of any kind its very easy to put things off, especially given the flexibility provided to you in choosing when you take exams or turn in assignments.

It's very easy for things to start piling up and interfering with your real world work or law school classes. Even if the MSEE classes are easy, there is always some level of time that needs to be invested and if its put off to an inappropriate period in your law school semester it can hurt.

Just something to keep in mind, especially seeing as how your plate already looks pretty full without the online MSEE work.

I, personally, would never take a graded online course ever again. but if you can motivate yourself to stay on task, more power to you.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby dextermorgan » Sat May 01, 2010 1:27 pm

DOOM wrote:the only comment I feel qualified to make is to just keep in mind some of the difficulties of your online coursework. Without a regularly scheduled lecture or discussion meetup of any kind its very easy to put things off, especially given the flexibility provided to you in choosing when you take exams or turn in assignments.

It's very easy for things to start piling up and interfering with your real world work or law school classes. Even if the MSEE classes are easy, there is always some level of time that needs to be invested and if its put off to an inappropriate period in your law school semester it can hurt.

Just something to keep in mind, especially seeing as how your plate already looks pretty full without the online MSEE work.

I, personally, would never take a graded online course ever again. but if you can motivate yourself to stay on task, more power to you.

I've taken more than my fair share of online course, and I notice that students always seem to start slacking off by the end. If you are used to online classes they can be fun, although I don't think you learn as much.

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legalease9
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby legalease9 » Sat May 01, 2010 1:27 pm

zreinhar wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
legalease9 wrote:Your chances of doing well in either school are very low if you overwork yourself this much. You will pass, sure, but I'm not sure half-assing a law degree (and you WILL half ass it if you are working full time and doing engineering school), makes the law degree worth it. Crap Grades from Georgia State will not get you any jobs. I'm not sure as to the value of crap-but-passing grades from an engineering school.

It sounds like you are trying to go down two career paths at the same time. You should really make a decision as to which career you want to do, and focus upon that. Not to say such a decision will be easy...


I have, Im gonna do IP law (actuall taking the Patent Bar in a month) Hence, the MSEE and the JD. Also, for reference, I will not be doing the MSEE my entire Law School Career. Only the equivalent of the first year. As far as handling the courseload and working, I obivoulsy did undergrad engineering and finished my degree taking between 8-12 hours (plus labs) while working full time and it wasnt hard at all. I realize law school is a different animal, given this I will be working much harder than I did at my UG. Also, I will only be trying to get the MSEE (read, dont care about grades, just want a >3.0) And will be working hard fore the law school stuff. I guess the real benefit here is that I have a little leeway, at GSU PT the 1L takes up two years, 4 semesters. So if I bomb my first semester than I will probably change my plans and just focus on law school, but if I can somehow manage, then I'll stay...


If you want to do IP law, why not do the Engineering, get it out of the way, and reapply to law school next year. Your extra degree will be a nice soft, and you will either out-perform or equally perform this year's cycle. You could also see if they would allow you to defer your Georgia state PT start while you get your Engineering schooling.

Or for another option, can you avoid doing Engineering school your first year and do it as a 2L or 3L. Law school gets objectively easier each year you are in. And your grades get objectively less important, although never unimportant. 1L is the WORST time to do anything besides law school. 2L and 3L time you have more freedom.

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zreinhar
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby zreinhar » Sat May 01, 2010 1:28 pm

DOOM wrote:the only comment I feel qualified to make is to just keep in mind some of the difficulties of your online coursework. Without a regularly scheduled lecture or discussion meetup of any kind its very easy to put things off, especially given the flexibility provided to you in choosing when you take exams or turn in assignments.

It's very easy for things to start piling up and interfering with your real world work or law school classes. Even if the MSEE classes are easy, there is always some level of time that needs to be invested and if its put off to an inappropriate period in your law school semester it can hurt.

Just something to keep in mind, especially seeing as how your plate already looks pretty full without the online MSEE work.

I, personally, would never take a graded online course ever again. but if you can motivate yourself to stay on task, more power to you.


Yeah, I would NOT take this on without already having had (grammar?) taken a few online classes. My UG started offering them in a beta sesne to see how well they worked and I learned better from them (the benefit of being able to see every second of every class whenever I wante made studying alot easier. The HW and Exams through USC aren't a do-on-your own time kind of thing. you take the class with on campus students and have all the same deadlines. Except a little more flexibility with regards to when you actually take the final.So I know what to expect from my online courses

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DOOM
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby DOOM » Sat May 01, 2010 1:35 pm

Also, your BSEE is an excellent engineering degree to have for IP law as it is. while getting the master's might give you a leg up against a similarly qualified applicant with just a BS, i still think your law school performance will matter a great deal more (along with which law school you go to, undergrad engineering program (which USC is great in), your undergrad GPA, and work experience)

You need to be sure that you really need the MSEE. Even if it seems easy/inexpensive to get given your circumstances, think about what you actually want when you graduate law school. Ex: hard IP work at a boutique. Could you do without the masters? What could you gain from the extra time you could put into better law school grades, journals, etc.?

Point is, while engineers are in demand, none are in nearly as much demand as EEs. If you want to be a patent/IP lawyer, focus on law school and skip the masters. you won't need it. if you wan't to leave some other kinds of doors open, then that might be another story.

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zreinhar
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby zreinhar » Sat May 01, 2010 1:38 pm

DOOM wrote:Also, your BSEE is an excellent engineering degree to have for IP law as it is. while getting the master's might give you a leg up against a similarly qualified applicant with just a BS, i still think your law school performance will matter a great deal more (along with which law school you go to, undergrad engineering program (which USC is great in), your undergrad GPA, and work experience)

You need to be sure that you really need the MSEE. Even if it seems easy/inexpensive to get given your circumstances, think about what you actually want when you graduate law school. Ex: hard IP work at a boutique. Could you do without the masters? What could you gain from the extra time you could put into better law school grades, journals, etc.?


This is where the MSEE comes in. I want to an UG no one knows, and my major was electrical engineering technology. Which some people think is like a technician degree. (my work exp says otherwise, but hey, some people don't see past the degree name) So if I got to USC I get the prestige, major, and leg up on another potential associate who may just have the BSEE. Plus I heard that eng work exp is always good to have when going into IP.

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zreinhar
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby zreinhar » Sat May 01, 2010 6:16 pm

Bump?

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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby ENGINEERD » Sat May 01, 2010 6:31 pm

I'm only a 0'L so take what I say with a grain of salt...

I am currently in a PT MSME program and I will be entering law school in the fall. If I were you I would defer Law school for a year, and try to take at least two, maybe three, EE classes a semester (including summer). Now you will have roughly 6 class done (about half of your masters). The following year I would start law school and put off taking EE classes until the summer. After you finish 1L I think you could manage concurrently working on both programs or you could finish you EE class during the summers. If you are talking about University of Southern California I would diffidently give priority to this program. USC is ranked in the top 10 for graduate engineering.

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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby 270910 » Sat May 01, 2010 6:49 pm

zreinhar wrote:Bump?


The answer is still 'no, this idea is fatally flawed and not justifiable under any circumstances'. Let me know if you need to hear it again, I'm happy to re-type it.

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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby Danneskjöld » Sat May 01, 2010 6:51 pm

zreinhar wrote:
DOOM wrote:Also, your BSEE is an excellent engineering degree to have for IP law as it is. while getting the master's might give you a leg up against a similarly qualified applicant with just a BS, i still think your law school performance will matter a great deal more (along with which law school you go to, undergrad engineering program (which USC is great in), your undergrad GPA, and work experience)

You need to be sure that you really need the MSEE. Even if it seems easy/inexpensive to get given your circumstances, think about what you actually want when you graduate law school. Ex: hard IP work at a boutique. Could you do without the masters? What could you gain from the extra time you could put into better law school grades, journals, etc.?


This is where the MSEE comes in. I want to an UG no one knows, and my major was electrical engineering technology. Which some people think is like a technician degree. (my work exp says otherwise, but hey, some people don't see past the degree name) So if I got to USC I get the prestige, major, and leg up on another potential associate who may just have the BSEE. Plus I heard that eng work exp is always good to have when going into IP.


There are a lot (not "alot") of false assumptions in this statement. But I laughed pretty hard when I read that you were getting an online degree to increase your prestige. Seriously though... this is an awful idea. This type of online degree is used to parlay a school prestige into dollars and offer nothing in the way of employment benefits. There may possibly be employment benefits in the EE world, if your employer, for example, based pay or advancement on the basis of holding an MS. But that's not how law works.

Answer these questions and think hard about the basis for your assumptions (i.e., is there any actual evidence, even anecdotally from a legal employer to believe your assumptions are correct?)

Why do you think a legal employer, even in IP, would care about your online MSEE at all? Do you realize how bad this will play if it ever comes out in an interview that your MS was an online degree? Do you not think it will be obvious given the overlap in timing that your degree from a school in another state was an online degree?

My final advice, which I am quite sure you will not understand but I feel compelled to give: Do not go to law school! Stay at your current job because there is no legal job waiting for you on the other end. I don't mean just a bad job, but literally no legal job. This is a ruinous financial decision for so many reasons.
Last edited by Danneskjöld on Sat May 01, 2010 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Renzo
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby Renzo » Sat May 01, 2010 6:51 pm

disco_barred wrote:
zreinhar wrote:Bump?


The answer is still 'no, this idea is fatally flawed and not justifiable under any circumstances'. Let me know if you need to hear it again, I'm happy to re-type it.

And I'm happy to quote it.

I'd personally defer law school, take the free MS.

09042014
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby 09042014 » Sat May 01, 2010 7:03 pm

zreinhar wrote:
DOOM wrote:Also, your BSEE is an excellent engineering degree to have for IP law as it is. while getting the master's might give you a leg up against a similarly qualified applicant with just a BS, i still think your law school performance will matter a great deal more (along with which law school you go to, undergrad engineering program (which USC is great in), your undergrad GPA, and work experience)

You need to be sure that you really need the MSEE. Even if it seems easy/inexpensive to get given your circumstances, think about what you actually want when you graduate law school. Ex: hard IP work at a boutique. Could you do without the masters? What could you gain from the extra time you could put into better law school grades, journals, etc.?


This is where the MSEE comes in. I want to an UG no one knows, and my major was electrical engineering technology. Which some people think is like a technician degree. (my work exp says otherwise, but hey, some people don't see past the degree name) So if I got to USC I get the prestige, major, and leg up on another potential associate who may just have the BSEE. Plus I heard that eng work exp is always good to have when going into IP.


Differ your law school a year. MSEE from USC is going to be difficult, and if you don't put time into studying you will get fucked. Your EET from a no name school won't compare to a MSEE from a real school. It will be harder than you are assuming.

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zreinhar
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby zreinhar » Sat May 01, 2010 7:06 pm

I'm gonna say bump again just to see if he actually re quote what was said, but thanks all for the advice.... I'm sure you'll hear how it goes

09042014
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Re: Law School and Engineering School at the same time?

Postby 09042014 » Sat May 01, 2010 7:13 pm

zreinhar wrote:I'm gonna say bump again just to see if he actually re quote what was said, but thanks all for the advice.... I'm sure you'll hear how it goes


huh?
Last edited by 09042014 on Sat May 01, 2010 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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