OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

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mafrench
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OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby mafrench » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:20 pm

So i was set on OU and then the dean at Tulsa called and offered me full tuition and books. I already talked to OU and all they can offer is the 8k a year. I was prepared to take on the debt at OU but graduating with little to no debt is an awesome opportunity as well. My concerns are Tulsa's placement vs OUs in OK as well as the reputation of OU over Tulsa, but it seems like Tulsa would really vouch for me in the hiring process. Any thoughts or insight would be greatly appreciated....

mafrench
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby mafrench » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:16 pm

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Mellojello7
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby Mellojello7 » Sat May 01, 2010 12:37 am

I think Tulsa is a great option if you would like to work in Tulsa. OU would certainly place better in OKC and probably the rest of Oklahoma. That should be the biggest consideration in your decision IMO.

If you have a stipulation attached to your Tulsa scholarship (such as you must place in the top X%) I would make sure that it is reasonable. Otherwise, I would lean towards Tulsa in this one. Graduating debt free sounds quite nice in the current legal environment.

I would be happy to answer any questions you have about life at Tulsa. I am about to finish my undergrad there.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby NU_Jet55 » Sat May 01, 2010 12:52 am

Tough decision. Knowing what I know about Ou, Ou would be less risk in terms of getting a job-they own the Okc market, consistently beat out tu in Tulsa, and they place well in Dallas and Wichita. You're as close to guaranteed a job coming out of Ou as you can be from a t2. Tulsa, on the other hand, if something crazy happens and you end up below median good luck finding a decent job. They have suuuuch a small alumni base, both from ls and undergrad.

Just out of curiosity, what are your stats?

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dvd
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby dvd » Sat May 01, 2010 2:09 am

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mafrench
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby mafrench » Sat May 01, 2010 3:47 am

157 lsat 3.35 GPA strong softs i was an ncaa all american, played professionally for a while and started and sold a very successful business while in undergrad. I have a very strong bias towards corporate and business law and i know OU owns the business market in OK so thats one of my concerns. But there is also i lot of concentrated money in Tulsa and they own that market. My scholarship at tulsa has a stipulation of a 3.0. I dont think this is bad because i play to bust my ass in law school. I just dont know if top of my class at Tulsa would match some of the job prospects that top of my class at OU would.

mafrench
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby mafrench » Sat May 01, 2010 3:48 am

dvd wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Tough decision. Knowing what I know about Ou, Ou would be less risk in terms of getting a job-they own the Okc market, consistently beat out tu in Tulsa, and they place well in Dallas and Wichita. You're as close to guaranteed a job coming out of Ou as you can be from a t2. Tulsa, on the other hand, if something crazy happens and you end up below median good luck finding a decent job. They have suuuuch a small alumni base, both from ls and undergrad.

Just out of curiosity, what are your stats?


Do not go to Tulsa over OU. Period.



Why?

mafrench
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby mafrench » Sat May 01, 2010 12:30 pm

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dvd
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby dvd » Sat May 01, 2010 1:53 pm

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Mellojello7
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby Mellojello7 » Sat May 01, 2010 2:59 pm

I really wouldn't count on doing corporate law coming from a school in Oklahoma. There aren't many huge firms in Oklahoma that do that type of work.

TU is far from a great law school but they have made advances. They made the biggest jump in the rankings of any school in the country.

I just think its extreme to say that going to TU for free is unfathomable. Btw, I think the 3.0 sounds reasonable but go ahead and ask what the curve/median is, just to make sure.

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Sat May 01, 2010 3:16 pm

First, Tulsa's bar passage rate has consistently been in the 85-90% range over the last four years. An aberration on one or two sittings is almost certainly just that. Second, bar passage shouldn't be a focus. Schools don't really prepare you for passage - BarBri does - and LSAT correlates with bar passage very well. Thus, whether you go to Tulsa or OU, you'll have the same (very high) likelihood of passing the bar.

However, given Tulsa's very low curve (2.5-2.7 median), a 3.0 requirement is about top 33% (or maybe even a bit tougher) and nowhere near a guaranteed renewal. If you didn't hit a 3.0, then you'd be paying more for a definitively worse school. Don't get me wrong, Tulsa isn't as bad as it gets, but OU is significantly better and more well-respected. Go to OU. Don't look back.

mafrench
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby mafrench » Sun May 02, 2010 1:00 pm

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Sun May 02, 2010 1:11 pm

mafrench wrote: I just dont know if top of my class at Tulsa would match some of the job prospects that top of my class at OU would.


^First, no matter what school you go to, I don't think it's generally a good idea to assume you will be at the top of your class. I personally know someone with a 160+ going to Tulsa (crappy GPA, but full ride, likes OK a lot). It is plausible that there will be others there with full-rides also looking to seize the top spot. And don't underestimate people who don't hit the class medians... really and truly. Some of them pull of suprise "upsets" if you will, of the class curve from time to time.

That said, what is the ultimate cost difference? An actual number would be great. You sound like you are already in-state in OK, so how much would OU actually cost you?

mafrench
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby mafrench » Sun May 02, 2010 1:44 pm

Im not assuming im going to be top of my class, i just think it would be pointless to spend 3 years of my life and a lot of money on law school and not bust my ass. When i say top of my class i do not mean the 1 spot, i mean top 10 to 20%. As far as the money goes im not in state at OU i just have this strange draw to the state and think it has a lot of potential to grow. I realize neither is a stellar school, but for my purposes and what i would like to accomplish long term in OK they are appropriate for me. My goal is to get the best possible job in a prestigious firm in OK. Everyone hates on the OK legal market but the reality is they have 6 or 7 firms in the state with 100+ attorneys with offices all over the midwest and associates start at 110k according to nalp. While thats not the sought after 160k big firm job, i promise you 110k will get you much farther in OK than 160 will in NYC. As far as the cost go OU will coast me about 90k and i figure living expenses in Tulsa will be about 45k. If i gain OK residency after 1L year it will drop to around 80k, there are also 68 scholarships available to OU law students once they to get there so while its an outside shot there is always the chance for some help there.

mafrench
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby mafrench » Sun May 02, 2010 2:14 pm

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You Gotta Have Faith
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby You Gotta Have Faith » Sun May 02, 2010 2:30 pm

I'm not quite sure what response you are looking for. I (and I imagine many others on here) have a limited knowledge of the legal market in OK. There's nothing wrong with it if you want to end up in OK. Since you mention these firms in OK from nalp that you are attracted to, I think an obvious move would be to go to those firms' sites and see how many attorneys there are Tulsa/OU/OKC/elsewhere. You can also cold call and explain (very briefly) the decision you are going to make. I've found that while most attorneys don't ever want to bash anyone or any school with such a random talk, they generally give pretty honest advice. That'd be a good starting point for you.

keg411
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby keg411 » Sun May 02, 2010 3:57 pm

OP, based on what you've said, go to OU.

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dvd
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby dvd » Sun May 02, 2010 4:09 pm

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roundabout
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby roundabout » Mon May 03, 2010 6:59 am

Don't know anything about OK law, but doesn't Tulsa have some unique stuff, like if you're interested in indigenous rights? It might depend on what you want to do.

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0 and 16
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby 0 and 16 » Mon May 03, 2010 12:31 pm

I've heard Oklahoma City University School of Law is really a good value too.

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dvd
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby dvd » Mon May 03, 2010 1:42 pm

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blerg
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby blerg » Mon May 03, 2010 1:55 pm

dvd wrote:
mafrench wrote:
dvd wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:Tough decision. Knowing what I know about Ou, Ou would be less risk in terms of getting a job-they own the Okc market, consistently beat out tu in Tulsa, and they place well in Dallas and Wichita. You're as close to guaranteed a job coming out of Ou as you can be from a t2. Tulsa, on the other hand, if something crazy happens and you end up below median good luck finding a decent job. They have suuuuch a small alumni base, both from ls and undergrad.

Just out of curiosity, what are your stats?


Do not go to Tulsa over OU. Period.



Why?


Let me preface this with the fact that I live in Tulsa, and know plenty of TU law professors. Tulsa is a terrible law school, with horrible bar passage rates, and a bunch of deadwood professors. It is slowly getting better, but only very slowly. OU is going to beat Tulsa for any job in Oklahoma, any day of the week. Realize that even with a full ride at Tulsa you will be sacrificing three years of your life and whatever your cost of living is. If you are actually worried about making money, then go to OU. If you have personal reasons for staying in Tulsa, okay, then maybe it's an option, but Norman isn't that far away.


+1

I'm from Tulsa and went to TU on a full ride for undergrad. Their law school is BS (their undergrad isn't great either but I'm VERY debt adverse) and unless you're sitting on a family offer, you're much better off going to OU. PLUS, if you lose your scholarships, OU is much cheaper at sticker.

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dvd
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby dvd » Mon May 03, 2010 2:01 pm

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Case2L
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby Case2L » Mon May 03, 2010 2:35 pm

mafrench wrote:My goal is to get the best possible job in a prestigious firm in OK.


Looks like you have the answer to your dilemma. You have the opportunity to go to the flagship school of the state in which you want to practice, and a scholarship to boot. You have clearly indicated your professional goal, and it's not solo work nor small firm work in Tulsa. I don't see how this decision could be any easier.

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patrickd139
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Re: OU 24k vs Tulsa Full ride....need some insight

Postby patrickd139 » Mon May 03, 2010 5:24 pm

OP: OU Law Student, here. Come to OU. It's worth any increase in debt to get the job prospects. The faculty is superior, facilities are superior, OKC>>>Tulsa and it's the flagship law school in the state. If you bust your ass, you might even be able to get to the Dallas legal market. None of those advantages are present at Tulsa. Tulsa's OCI is severely lacking, they have 2L students studying abroad during their 2L year (lulz).

I could go on for pages. Go to OU. Especially if you're in-state tuition wise. That'd put you right about $8k per year total in tuition. That's one helluva deal in this economy.




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