Yet another Illinois vs. WUSTL poll Forum

[jman77]

Hey guys,

Didn't think it would come to this, but with the 1st deposit at Illinois coming up this Friday, I need some input to help choose between these 2 fine schools.

I have never been to either campus and will probably not get a chance to visit due to my work schedule. I have no strong geographic preference, but push comes to shove, would be pleased if I could go back to SoCal after law school. Earnings potential after law school is pretty important. I have comparable scholarships from each school, and any difference is materially insignificant.

Thanks in advance!

Edit: I would also have to potentially forfeit the $200 1st deposit at WUSTL if I don't withdraw by Friday.

[FuManChusco]

cheaper = better

[romothesavior]

Are you an IL resident? If yes, then it is about a push. If not, then take the money at Wash U.

edit: I don't think you can be an IL resident and get over 100k from UIUC, since they only give scholarships up to full tuition and in-state tuition is 33k. So you must be OOS, so take Wash U. They are peer schools and I would take the money.

Do you have any preferences for St. Louis/Champaign? Preferences on the campuses?

[jman77]

cheaper = better

Thanks for the feedback... but which one would be cheaper? I've heard that COL in Champaign and St. Louis are comparable. T&F at Illinois is around $40K, while T&F at WUSTL is around $43-$44K, so the difference in scholarship amount pretty much evens out on a net basis.

[romothesavior]

cheaper = better

Thanks for the feedback... but which one would be cheaper? I've heard that COL in Champaign and St. Louis are comparable. T&F at Illinois is around $40K, while T&F at WUSTL is around $43-$44K, so the difference in scholarship amount pretty much evens out on a net basis.

I think Illinois places a little better in Cali than Wash U but I'm not positive on that. The WC does seem to be a weakness for Wash U.

The reason I ask about preferences in campus/location is that Champaign and St. Louis are VERY different places to live. They are comprable in terms of COL, but Champaign is a college town in the middle of nowhere, whereas St. Louis (while not a bustling metropolis) is at least a city with some culture and some things to do.

[jman77]

Are you an IL resident? If yes, then it is about a push. If not, then take the money at Wash U.

edit: I don't think you can be an IL resident and get over 100k from UIUC, since they only give scholarships up to full tuition and in-state tuition is 33k. So you must be OOS, so take Wash U. They are peer schools and I would take the money.

Do you have any preferences for St. Louis/Champaign? Preferences on the campuses?

Yes, I am OOS (CA). I honestly don't have firsthand experience with the respective cities and campuses to have a preference, one way or the other. Would've loved to have been able to visit, but work just made that virtually impossible.

I have actually read some of your posts and from what I understand, Illinois is more of a "country" setting while WUSTL is more city. I think I could live in either.

The determining factor for me here would probably be earnings potential coming out of either school...

[jman77]

cheaper = better

Thanks for the feedback... but which one would be cheaper? I've heard that COL in Champaign and St. Louis are comparable. T&F at Illinois is around $40K, while T&F at WUSTL is around $43-$44K, so the difference in scholarship amount pretty much evens out on a net basis.

I think Illinois places a little better in Cali than Wash U but I'm not positive on that. The WC does seem to be a weakness for Wash U.

The reason I ask about preferences in campus/location is that Champaign and St. Louis are VERY different places to live. They are comprable in terms of COL, but Champaign is a college town in the middle of nowhere, whereas St. Louis (while not a bustling metropolis) is at least a city with some culture and some things to do.

In terms of weather/climate, is one location preferable to the other (keeping in mind that I've been in SoCal for the entirety of my stay in the United States so far and I grew up in a tropical country).

[romothesavior]

cheaper = better

Thanks for the feedback... but which one would be cheaper? I've heard that COL in Champaign and St. Louis are comparable. T&F at Illinois is around $40K, while T&F at WUSTL is around $43-$44K, so the difference in scholarship amount pretty much evens out on a net basis.

I think Illinois places a little better in Cali than Wash U but I'm not positive on that. The WC does seem to be a weakness for Wash U.

The reason I ask about preferences in campus/location is that Champaign and St. Louis are VERY different places to live. They are comprable in terms of COL, but Champaign is a college town in the middle of nowhere, whereas St. Louis (while not a bustling metropolis) is at least a city with some culture and some things to do.

In terms of weather/climate, is one location preferable to the other (keeping in mind that I've been in SoCal for the entirety of my stay in the United States so far and I grew up in a tropical country).

St. Louis gets hotter in the summers (and not necessarily temp wise, but it is humid as hell) and probably is a little warmer in the winter. The weather difference is really quite small though.

I encourage you to come with me to Wash U, if for no other reason than you have my nickname and my favorite number in your handle.

[djgoldbe]

cheaper = better

Thanks for the feedback... but which one would be cheaper? I've heard that COL in Champaign and St. Louis are comparable. T&F at Illinois is around $40K, while T&F at WUSTL is around $43-$44K, so the difference in scholarship amount pretty much evens out on a net basis.

I think Illinois places a little better in Cali than Wash U but I'm not positive on that. The WC does seem to be a weakness for Wash U.

The reason I ask about preferences in campus/location is that Champaign and St. Louis are VERY different places to live. They are comprable in terms of COL, but Champaign is a college town in the middle of nowhere, whereas St. Louis (while not a bustling metropolis) is at least a city with some culture and some things to do.

In terms of weather/climate, is one location preferable to the other (keeping in mind that I've been in SoCal for the entirety of my stay in the United States so far and I grew up in a tropical country).

Weather wise I don't think you're really going to notice that much of a difference. Maybe a few degrees warmer and a bit more humid in St. Louis. But QOL wise Champaign is... very limited in terms of stuff to do. The undergrad is pretty dominated by college bars / frats. As someone who went to school at USC and grew up in IL and has lots of friends at champaign, I can say that St Louis is a far better QOL (although higher COL) if you are remotely interested in similar cosmopolitan setting. If college sports are something you enjoy, perhaps that is a plus for UoI. But just make sure you understand that Champaign is literally a small town plopped on a corn field setting, while St. Louis is a legitimate city.

[DerrickRose]

Champaign isn't "country" so much as its "college town-y". Pluses and minuses are of course associated therewith.

And the cost of living is WAY lower than STL.

Plus Illinois places better on the West Coast (though not nearly as well as UCLA/USC/UCI/UCD/UCH, are those other options?)

[romothesavior]

Champaign isn't "country" so much as its "college town-y". Pluses and minuses are of course associated therewith.

And the cost of living is WAY lower than STL.

Plus Illinois places better on the West Coast (though not nearly as well as UCLA/USC/UCI/UCD/UCH, are those other options?)

No, it is not.

But I agree Illinois places well on the WC.

[djgoldbe]

Yes with a 167 and 3.9 I would be shocked if you didn't get some $ to USC. If you plan on going back to SoCal after you graduate, I would negotiate your WUSTL scholly with USC and get ~20k per year and run with that.

[DerrickRose]

No, it is not.

If you want to live close to WashU you are in a relatively pricey area. If you don't, you're going to incur additional transportation costs. The little things, groceries, drinks, going out to the movies, etc are all going to cost that little bit more.

Housing everywhere in CU is cheap as dirt, the buses will take you everywhere for free, and pretty much everywhere else you go, you'll be like the guy in that Staples commercial. "WOW, THATS A LOW PRICE!"

Maybe "WAY less" is overstating it, but there is no doubt that Champaign is cheaper than University City.

[SaintClarence27]

No, it is not.

If you want to live close to WashU you are in a relatively pricey area. If you don't, you're going to incur additional transportation costs. The little things, groceries, drinks, going out to the movies, etc are all going to cost that little bit more.

Housing everywhere in CU is cheap as dirt, the buses will take you everywhere for free, and pretty much everywhere else you go, you'll be like the guy in that Staples commercial. "WOW, THATS A LOW PRICE!"

Maybe "WAY less" is overstating it, but there is no doubt that Champaign is cheaper than University City.

I'm curious as to WUSTLs stated COL, so I looked it up. They post 17,000 room/board/other (not including fees, books, etc.) UIllinois posts $14,400 for the same. So it's at least a *little* different. Also, if you're not like me with car loan and significant credit card debt, I'd be surprised if you couldn't live at UIllinois for significantly cheaper than that.

[NayBoer]

WashU. Money is basically a push and WUSTL clearly has more geographic mobility.

[NayBoer]

Plus Illinois places better on the West Coast (though not nearly as well as UCLA/USC/UCI/UCD/UCH, are those other options?)

Wait, where do you get that? NALP says Illinois places 6.4% Pacific and WashU places 8.4% Pacific. Sounds like a small market for both.

Illinois places over 2/3 in the Chicago region, and 72% into the Midwest. WashU places 27% into the St. Louis region and 46% into the Midwest. Neither one is a California powerhouse, but how can you say Illinois is better anywhere outside Illinois? I'm not even convinced it's better for Chicago.

[jman77]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I am currently leaning towards WUSTL, which is in line with the poll results so far. However, I'd have to say it's 60-40 at this time.

I grew up in a college town environment back in my home country (mom and dad were in academia), so I am not really averse to going back to such a setting. On the other hand, I have also found that I enjoy city life and all the trappings it offers.

It's really a tough call, but rankings and perceived mobility, based on personal research and feedback, have given WUSTL the slight edge.

Of course, a USC/UCLA acceptance (they're taking their sweet time) and/or BU scholarship money would definitely muddy things up even further. I just feel a bit under the gun right now due to the Illinois deposit date on Friday, which just so happens to coincide with the lapse of the refundability period for the WUSTL 1st deposit. I don't think I want to be in the hole for $700 considering the uncertainty, but $500 is acceptable and $200 is definitely an amount I am willing to eat.

[JCougar]

I'll second the college town versus big city difference. Illinois has a great sports program (especially compared to where I've went to school before). UC is a college town through and through. It seemed like a very fun place to be, but the fun seemed to be on campus/directly related to the university. With that said, you can take the train/bus into Chicago pretty cheaply on the weekends if you wish.

WUSTL has division 3 sports teams, and campus comes off as a more subdued, studious place. But although St. Louis isn't exactly a teeming metropolis or a cosmopolitan mecca, it holds its own, and if you need a big city for your social and extracurricular outlets, you'll be able to find it there for a very low COL.

But COL is low both places, and placement in California is a wash. I strongly reccomend you visit both places. It could be easily done in a weekend, as they're not that far apart. I don't think you could go wrong at either, and it probably boils down to personal preference.

[NayBoer]

To be clear, U City isn't really 'city life.' The area around WashU is somewhat suburban.

UCLA/USC are better if you want California, but the money is enough to not be ignored. Don't take BU over these other options. I'd say BU full ride is probably no better for CA than WashU or Illinois full ride, and statistically is worse (only 4% pacific).

[JOThompson]

WashU. Money is basically a push and WUSTL clearly has more geographic mobility.

This.

[DerrickRose]

I'm curious as to WUSTLs stated COL, so I looked it up. They post 17,000 room/board/other (not including fees, books, etc.) UIllinois posts $14,400 for the same.... I'd be surprised if you couldn't live at UIllinois for significantly cheaper than that.

You can. I am doing it right now. $11,000 MAYBE.

[SaintClarence27]

I'm curious as to WUSTLs stated COL, so I looked it up. They post 17,000 room/board/other (not including fees, books, etc.) UIllinois posts $14,400 for the same.... I'd be surprised if you couldn't live at UIllinois for significantly cheaper than that.

You can. I am doing it right now. $11,000 MAYBE.

Senior year I was student teaching, which precluded working. Granted, this was 1997, but I lived for a year on less than $4500. With a used car - so that included gas. I see no reason that a single student who was willing to have a roommate would have to spend over 9 or 10K. Now, you might not want to, but it definitely can be done.

[romothesavior]

No, it is not.

If you want to live close to WashU you are in a relatively pricey area. If you don't, you're going to incur additional transportation costs. The little things, groceries, drinks, going out to the movies, etc are all going to cost that little bit more.

Housing everywhere in CU is cheap as dirt, the buses will take you everywhere for free, and pretty much everywhere else you go, you'll be like the guy in that Staples commercial. "WOW, THATS A LOW PRICE!"

Maybe "WAY less" is overstating it, but there is no doubt that Champaign is cheaper than University City.

The difference in rent is negligible. My roommate and I found a few places for about $400 per person per month, which is what I pay now at my undergrad (I go to school just up the road from you Derrick Rose... in the rectum of Illinois). These places are all in nice neighborhoods and are within walking distance of Wash U. Single BRs are obviously a bit more expensive, but I think you could keep it to about 600-700 if you keep a keen eye on craiglslist and padmapper.

[jman77]

To be clear, U City isn't really 'city life.' The area around WashU is somewhat suburban.

UCLA/USC are better if you want California, but the money is enough to not be ignored. Don't take BU over these other options. I'd say BU full ride is probably no better for CA than WashU or Illinois full ride, and statistically is worse (only 4% pacific).

I don't really have a particularly strong geographic preference, but have some preference for SoCal, if only because my family's here and this is the only place I've lived in since coming to the US. Between staying in SoCal and incurring significant debt and moving while avoiding debt, I gravitate towards the latter. I would consider BU if they offer me enough money because 1) it gives me an opening into Boston and perhaps New York and 2) they seem to place rather well in BigLaw. As I said in a previous post, earnings potential is the primary consideration for me, money matters (COA) being equal.

I guess you can explain my relative neutrality about location by the fact that I didn't grow up here and I have already made a big geographic move by coming here in the first place.

Edit: Earnings potential is oversimplified. ROI would be the more valid factor.

And again, thanks for all the feedback, truly appreciate them.

[jman77]

I'll second the college town versus big city difference. Illinois has a great sports program (especially compared to where I've went to school before). UC is a college town through and through. It seemed like a very fun place to be, but the fun seemed to be on campus/directly related to the university. With that said, you can take the train/bus into Chicago pretty cheaply on the weekends if you wish.

WUSTL has division 3 sports teams, and campus comes off as a more subdued, studious place. But although St. Louis isn't exactly a teeming metropolis or a cosmopolitan mecca, it holds its own, and if you need a big city for your social and extracurricular outlets, you'll be able to find it there for a very low COL.

But COL is low both places, and placement in California is a wash. I strongly reccomend you visit both places. It could be easily done in a weekend, as they're not that far apart. I don't think you could go wrong at either, and it probably boils down to personal preference.

You're right, visiting each campus would be the ideal thing to do and would probably settle this question for me once I experienced each school firsthand. However, work has been tough to get away from these past couple of months, and next week would already be too late since the deposit deadlines for both schools is Friday.