UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

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jaymoney
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UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby jaymoney » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:15 pm

thanks! deleted.
Last edited by jaymoney on Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

showNprove
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby showNprove » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:40 pm

You don't need to worry about the intellectual level of any of these schools.

I think it's a coin flip between Chicago and UVA. I may get blasted for speaking in absolutes, but Chicago is, generally, a better school than NYU. The fact that it's cheaper makes it a slam dunk between the two of them. If you can make that conclusion, then you only have to weigh the value of Chicago versus UVA's scholarship.

For NYC biglaw--as opposed to academia or clerkships--I'd probably take the money, but it's a very close call.

astro1819
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby astro1819 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:48 pm

jaymoney wrote:I know I definitely want to do Biglaw in NYC...Being in NYC after graduation is very important to me....Socially and location-wise, I think NYU would be ideal
Can anyone advise? Thanks!


Sounds like you really want to be in New York and that you're more of a city person. If you really want to be there, then the 100k difference over a lifetime is not that much (I know, I know, it's still A LOT). If you want to big law, you'll make it back. Law school is 3 years of your life, do what makes you happy. UVA (which is where I'll be attending) and Chicago are great schools, but you won't go wrong with NYU if it's where you want to be.

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gossipgirl
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby gossipgirl » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:50 pm

astro1819 wrote:
jaymoney wrote:I know I definitely want to do Biglaw in NYC...Being in NYC after graduation is very important to me....Socially and location-wise, I think NYU would be ideal
Can anyone advise? Thanks!


Sounds like you really want to be in New York and that you're more of a city person. If you really want to be there, then the 100k difference over a lifetime is not that much (I know, I know, it's still A LOT). If you want to big law, you'll make it back. Law school is 3 years of your life, do what makes you happy. UVA (which is where I'll be attending) and Chicago are great schools, but you won't go wrong with NYU if it's where you want to be.


+1

I think because you think NYU is a better fit for you and you want to do NYC BigLaw, you should take on the additional debt.

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glowhard
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby glowhard » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:32 pm

showNprove wrote:You don't need to worry about the intellectual level of any of these schools.

I think it's a coin flip between Chicago and UVA. I may get blasted for speaking in absolutes, but Chicago is, generally, a better school than NYU. The fact that it's cheaper makes it a slam dunk between the two of them. If you can make that conclusion, then you only have to weigh the value of Chicago versus UVA's scholarship.

For NYC biglaw--as opposed to academia or clerkships--I'd probably take the money, but it's a very close call.


wtf.

A) it's definitely not better for what OP wants to do
B) i know chicago ranked above nyu this year, but don't you have to go back over 10 years to find chicago above nyu? not saying nyu is better, but THEY ARE PEER SCHOOLS.

showNprove
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby showNprove » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:50 pm

glowhard wrote:
showNprove wrote:You don't need to worry about the intellectual level of any of these schools.

I think it's a coin flip between Chicago and UVA. I may get blasted for speaking in absolutes, but Chicago is, generally, a better school than NYU. The fact that it's cheaper makes it a slam dunk between the two of them. If you can make that conclusion, then you only have to weigh the value of Chicago versus UVA's scholarship.

For NYC biglaw--as opposed to academia or clerkships--I'd probably take the money, but it's a very close call.


wtf.

A) it's definitely not better for what OP wants to do
B) i know chicago ranked above nyu this year, but don't you have to go back over 10 years to find chicago above nyu? not saying nyu is better, but THEY ARE PEER SCHOOLS.

The formula that US News uses to make its ranking, and therefore their ranking, is not gospel. Chicago wins in general biglaw placement, clerkships, and academia. Period. I agree NYU might be better for NYC biglaw, but definitely not $90k better.

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im_blue
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby im_blue » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:54 pm

glowhard wrote:
showNprove wrote:You don't need to worry about the intellectual level of any of these schools.

I think it's a coin flip between Chicago and UVA. I may get blasted for speaking in absolutes, but Chicago is, generally, a better school than NYU. The fact that it's cheaper makes it a slam dunk between the two of them. If you can make that conclusion, then you only have to weigh the value of Chicago versus UVA's scholarship.

For NYC biglaw--as opposed to academia or clerkships--I'd probably take the money, but it's a very close call.


wtf.

A) it's definitely not better for what OP wants to do
B) i know chicago ranked above nyu this year, but don't you have to go back over 10 years to find chicago above nyu? not saying nyu is better, but THEY ARE PEER SCHOOLS.

Who said anything about rankings? Chicago 45k beats NYU sticker for biglaw (even in NYC), clerkships, and academia.

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Rand M.
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby Rand M. » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:56 pm

showNprove wrote:
glowhard wrote:
showNprove wrote:You don't need to worry about the intellectual level of any of these schools.

I think it's a coin flip between Chicago and UVA. I may get blasted for speaking in absolutes, but Chicago is, generally, a better school than NYU. The fact that it's cheaper makes it a slam dunk between the two of them. If you can make that conclusion, then you only have to weigh the value of Chicago versus UVA's scholarship.

For NYC biglaw--as opposed to academia or clerkships--I'd probably take the money, but it's a very close call.


[strike]wtf.

A) it's definitely not better for what OP wants to do
B) i know chicago ranked above nyu this year, but don't you have to go back over 10 years to find chicago above nyu? not saying nyu is better, but THEY ARE PEER SCHOOLS.[/strike]

The formula that US News uses to make its ranking, and therefore their ranking, is not gospel. Chicago wins in general biglaw placement, clerkships, and academia. Period. I agree NYU might be better for NYC biglaw, but definitely not $90k better.

jaymoney
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby jaymoney » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:12 pm

showNprove wrote: I agree NYU might be better for NYC biglaw, but definitely not $90k better.


Actually, that may or may not be true. I talked to some biglaw lawyers who seem to think that Chicago has a "scarcity" advantage when it comes to NYC hiring -- in other words, out of a class of 200, 100 might want to stay in Chicago/other, 50 might do clerkships or public interest or etc., and only 50 or so might be potentially interested in NYC biglaw. If each of the V100 firms want "law school diversity" and want one Chicago grad each, your chances aren't too bad.

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glowhard
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby glowhard » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:33 pm

Rand M. wrote:
showNprove wrote:
glowhard wrote:
showNprove wrote:You don't need to worry about the intellectual level of any of these schools.

I think it's a coin flip between Chicago and UVA. I may get blasted for speaking in absolutes, but Chicago is, generally, a better school than NYU. The fact that it's cheaper makes it a slam dunk between the two of them. If you can make that conclusion, then you only have to weigh the value of Chicago versus UVA's scholarship.

For NYC biglaw--as opposed to academia or clerkships--I'd probably take the money, but it's a very close call.


[strike]wtf.

A) it's definitely not better for what OP wants to do
B) i know chicago ranked above nyu this year, but don't you have to go back over 10 years to find chicago above nyu? not saying nyu is better, but THEY ARE PEER SCHOOLS.[/strike]

The formula that US News uses to make its ranking, and therefore their ranking, is not gospel. Chicago wins in general biglaw placement, clerkships, and academia. Period. I agree NYU might be better for NYC biglaw, but definitely not $90k better.



The difference between NYU and Chicago for OP is 45k, not 90k. I'm not saying NYU is 45k better than Chicago for NYC BigLaw- I'm not even saying NYU is a better school than Chicago. I'm just saying that THEY ARE PEER SCHOOLS. and OP shouldn't make any decision based on a TLS poster saying that according to him and the few stats he chose to look at, Chicago is hands-down a better school. And yeah, I was relying on US News... the only rankings people ever cite.

edit: saw Rand doing some anti-NYU trolling on other threads, so I'm officially bowing out of this conversation...
Last edited by glowhard on Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rand M.
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby Rand M. » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:34 pm

jaymoney wrote:
showNprove wrote: I agree NYU might be better for NYC biglaw, but definitely not $90k better.


Actually, that may or may not be true. I talked to some biglaw lawyers who seem to think that Chicago has a "scarcity" advantage when it comes to NYC hiring -- in other words, out of a class of 200, 100 might want to stay in Chicago/other, 50 might do clerkships or public interest or etc., and only 50 or so might be potentially interested in NYC biglaw. If each of the V100 firms want "law school diversity" and want one Chicago grad each, your chances aren't too bad.


Either way, showNprove's point is that you're not losing anything significant enough, w/r/t NYC placement, for it to be a deciding factor.

I don't really see any reason why Chicago is not TCR, unless you just have an overwhelming love for the environment of another school, in which case you should go to that school.

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jsarna1
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby jsarna1 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:46 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe UVA does well in NYC BigLaw too. ITE, I wouldn't take on additional debt unless you have to. It's not like UVA is a shitty school... and that's a nice chunk of change. My vote is take the money and run.

I know my personal choice went money over a little bit more prestige.

nice-and-cool
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby nice-and-cool » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:58 pm

jsarna1 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe UVA does well in NYC BigLaw too. ITE, I wouldn't take on additional debt unless you have to. It's not like UVA is a shitty school... and that's a nice chunk of change. My vote is take the money and run.

I know my personal choice went money over a little bit more prestige.


What are your numbers? just out of curiosity.

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jsarna1
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby jsarna1 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:00 pm

nice-and-cool wrote:
jsarna1 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe UVA does well in NYC BigLaw too. ITE, I wouldn't take on additional debt unless you have to. It's not like UVA is a shitty school... and that's a nice chunk of change. My vote is take the money and run.

I know my personal choice went money over a little bit more prestige.


What are your numbers? just out of curiosity.


low 170s, mid 3.7s out of Notre Dame

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remotelyfeasible
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby remotelyfeasible » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:08 pm

NYU is offering 45,000 less than Chicago, and has a higher cost of living. Given that both schools place about the same in NYC BigLaw, I would pick Chicago over NYU.

However, UVA places decently in NYC BigLaw, although worse than NYU/Chicago. It will also leave you with the least debt. Further, UVA better fits your hating cold criteria, since Chicago is freezing.

Each extra 50k of debt may amount to a year or more of needing to work in BigLaw. So, you would need to spend half as long working stupid-long BigLaw hours with a UVA degree than a NYU degree, assuming you can get the grades to get BigLaw from UVA.

I'd hate to come out of law school needing to work BigLaw for 4+ years in times when top Vault firms are not afraid of Lathaming first years.

I would choose UVA.

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vanwinkle
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:28 pm

UVA at 90k vs. NYU sticker, UVA wins hands-freaking-down. After you add in COL differences you're talking about a degree that's at least 100K cheaper for practically equivalent job placement. The only contest here is UVA vs. Chicago.

Chicago is the better school all around. It places better in clerkships and academia, and the scarcity argument is valid. However, UVA's placement in NYC is historically pretty strong also, and because it sends so many people to DC and around the country, you're not competing with your classmates for NYC quite so much there either.

Plus, the thing about freezing your ass off in Chicago is credited. Random 100-year blizzards aside, UVA is the warmer place to be. Also, it wins the COL matchup against living in Chicago, as well.

I don't think you can go wrong between UVA and Chicago. If you want more than just BigLaw, you should seriously consider Chicago, but if that's all you're after, you should really consider UVA and escaping law school with considerably less debt.

showNprove
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby showNprove » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:31 pm

glowhard wrote:The difference between NYU and Chicago for OP is 45k, not 90k. I'm not saying NYU is 45k better than Chicago for NYC BigLaw- I'm not even saying NYU is a better school than Chicago. I'm just saying that THEY ARE PEER SCHOOLS. and OP shouldn't make any decision based on a TLS poster saying that according to him and the few stats he chose to look at, Chicago is hands-down a better school. And yeah, I was relying on US News... the only rankings people ever cite.

edit: saw Rand doing some anti-NYU trolling on other threads, so I'm officially bowing out of this conversation...

I typed $90k, but I meant $45k. My statement still stands with the new figure: NYU is "definitely not $45k better."

Chicago is better. Hands down.

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Rand M.
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby Rand M. » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:06 pm

glowhard wrote:The difference between NYU and Chicago for OP is 45k, not 90k. I'm not saying NYU is 45k better than Chicago for NYC BigLaw- I'm not even saying NYU is a better school than Chicago. I'm just saying that THEY ARE PEER SCHOOLS. and OP shouldn't make any decision based on a TLS poster saying that according to him and the few stats he chose to look at, Chicago is hands-down a better school. And yeah, I was relying on US News... the only rankings people ever cite.

edit: saw Rand doing some anti-NYU trolling on other threads, so I'm officially bowing out of this conversation...


It's really not trolling, it's just true. You cite nothing but a rankings system that you probably don't even properly understand. I was mostly crossing out everything you said because it just seemed so extreme. Starting with "wtf"? Why? The fact is that you have no argument for why C and N are peer schools. The data is just not on your side on this one. So, just maybe, in this instance, bowing out is TCR for you.

As for the OP: you are in an enviable position and would benefit by choosing Chicago or UVa. Neither would damage your prospects enough to not be worth the money. NYU is not worth the extra money to most. If it is just that serious to you, then have at it and enjoy NYU. For most people it is just not worth 45k and 90k more.

jaymoney
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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby jaymoney » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:36 pm

Thanks, all, for the input! I'm thinking if I can get over the mental/physical barrier of freezing my ass off, I'm probably leaning towards Chicago, mostly because I think I feel more secure re: job opportunities, but I'd still have a more manageable amount of debt. Thanks to everyone for your comments, and I agree with whomever said that Chicago and NYU are peer institutions -- I don't think it's worth splitting hairs over which one is marginally better and the other.

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Re: UVA (90k) or Chicago (45k) or NYU

Postby legalnoeagle » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:04 pm

Given the OP's goals, Chicago wins this battle. It's not even close.
The cold will suck, and the school atmosphere/environment might suck, too, but this is law school; you'll be marginally miserable wherever you enroll. :wink:




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