Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

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McGeorge vs. USD

McGeorge ($75k)
13
54%
USD ($15)
11
46%
 
Total votes: 24

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Great Satchmo
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Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:52 pm

This is going to be the last "what to do" post (if for no other reason, the deposits are due in a few days).

Preface: I prefer the Bay Area/SF, but the only hope of staying is Hastings WL (and I'm on Davis WL, if I get off of either, I'll go). From San Diego, and the more I become objective, the more I realize that it's not a bad place to be (this is coming from an embitterment from growing up there, which has slid away) and my family still lives there, including practicing attorneys.

McGeorge:
- $75k guaranteed in scholarship, plus whatever I can get through performance on top
- Low COL
- Feels like a "safer" bet, lower debt, plus I can focus on jobs in San Francisco but also look for work in Sacramento.
- Not my favorite campus/school, but I feel like it fulfills criteria for lower debt, decent job opportunities, and some access to the Bay Area.

USD:
- $15k (non-renewable, looks like there are sparse opportunity for more money with performance)
- Higher COL, but my parents live there and I could conceivably live with them for a semester here and there to reduce costs if i wanted.
- I have family members that have been practicing law for a while there, and they would certainly provide more opportunity to network for jobs.
- San Diego hasn't been my ideal place, but since I realize unless Hastings takes me, it isn't as bad since I'm not comparing SD to SF anymore.
- Maybe it's ego, but going to the better school in the region, plus one that is known, seems more appealing.

I feel like pragmatism leads me to McGeorge, however I'm starting to worry that I'm hoping too much for getting off a WL or transferring, neither of which I can count on.

I would feel better overall going to a better school like USD, but the scholarship at McGeorge has comforted me (paying all but $15k, plus maybe some COL at USD is a lot) as well as telling myself I can get back to the Bay Area.
Last edited by Great Satchmo on Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Teoeo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Teoeo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:56 pm

If you are deadset on living in San Diego you should go to USD. Otherwise I think McGeorge is the better choice. I wouldn't worry about it not being "the best school" in the region. McGeorge grads do well in Sacramento and only have to really compete with what, about half of Davis' relatively small class each year? Just look at the firms in Sacramento, they are flooded with McGeorge grads.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:03 pm

Teoeo wrote:If you are deadset on living in San Diego you should go to USD. Otherwise I think McGeorge is the better choice. I wouldn't worry about it not being "the best school" in the region. McGeorge grads do well in Sacramento and only have to really compete with what, about half of Davis' relatively small class each year? Just look at the firms in Sacramento, they are flooded with McGeorge grads.


That's the thing, I prefer the Bay Area. I think I may be starting to freak-out that I have to put the waitlists and transferring out of my mind - and that means McGeorge of USD, and somehow I feel like USD is on a different level (including some prestige, which I know, it's no ivy).

McGeorge would offer more opportunity for PI work (I have some interest), but also firm work in the Bay and in Sacramento. San Diego seems to have such a compact market, but I do have family connections. I think the draw of McGeorge is the opportunities in Sacramento/San Francisco (more to the latter), while USD's draw is the school itself.

However, needing to put the money down in a few days, and trying to forget about the prospect of WL's and transferring - I think I'm freaking out a little. I'm not sure if this is a general thing, I've had so many options and now I finally have to commit, or if it's that I'd be more excited about GOING to USD than McGeorge, even though I think McGeorge is the more pragmatic option for the longer term.

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hoopsguy6
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby hoopsguy6 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:04 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:This is going to be the last "what to do" post (if for no other reason, the deposits are due in a few days).

Preface: I prefer the Bay Area/SF, but the only hope of staying is Hastings WL (and I'm on Davis WL, if I get off of either, I'll go). From San Diego, and the more I become objective, the more I realize that it's not a bad place to be (this is coming from an embitterment from growing up there, which has slid away) and my family still lives there, including practicing attorneys.

McGeorge:
- $75k guaranteed in scholarship, plus whatever I can get through performance on top
- Low COL
- Feels like a "safer" bet, lower debt, plus I can focus on jobs in San Francisco but also look for work in Sacramento.
- Not my favorite campus/school, but I feel like it fulfills criteria for lower debt, decent job opportunities, and some access to the Bay Area.

USD:
- $15k (non-renewable, looks like there are sparse opportunity for more money with performance)
- Higher COL, but my parents live there and I could conceivably live with them for a semester here and there to reduce costs if i wanted.
- I have family members that have been practicing law for a while there, and they would certainly provide more opportunity to network for jobs.
- San Diego hasn't been my ideal place, but since I realize unless Hastings takes me, it isn't as bad since I'm not comparing SD to SF anymore.
- Maybe it's ego, but going to the better school in the region, plus one that is known, seems more appealing.

I feel like pragmatism leads me to McGeorge, however I'm starting to worry that I'm hoping too much for getting off a WL or transferring, neither of which I can count on.

I would feel better overall going to a better school like USD, but the scholarship at McGeorge has comforted me (paying all but $15k, plus maybe some COL at USD is a lot) as well as telling myself I can get back to the Bay Area.



If they can hook you up with a job, then USD is a no brainer.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:09 pm

hoopsguy6 wrote:If they can hook you up with a job, then USD is a no brainer.


They are basically in solo practice criminal law - they've definitely done well for themselves, but I'm not sure it's what I'd want to do.

I think, if nothing else, they can put me in contact with people and if I do end up liking criminal law, I guess I could try to work with them if nothing else came up (but this isn't guaranteed, I haven't discussed that possibility with them).

But, if they can get me connections for work that the school wouldn't have any influence with, couldn't I make those same connections after graduating from McGeorge and moving to San Diego?
Last edited by Great Satchmo on Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Teoeo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Teoeo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:10 pm

If you went to a store, would you pay 60k to change your degree from McGeorge to USD WITHOUT improving your chances at a job in the bay area?

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:11 pm

Teoeo wrote:If you went to a store, would you pay 60k to change your degree from McGeorge to USD WITHOUT improving your chances at a job in the bay area?


Well, if I went to USD I'd plan on staying in San Diego (or Southern California, whatever I end up getting a hopefully decent job) for work for the foreseeable future.

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Teoeo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Teoeo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:12 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
Teoeo wrote:If you went to a store, would you pay 60k to change your degree from McGeorge to USD WITHOUT improving your chances at a job in the bay area?


Well, if I went to USD I'd plan on staying in San Diego (or Southern California, whatever I end up getting a hopefully decent job) for work for the foreseeable future.


I am just not convinced that all things being equal USD has much better job prospects, but maybe im off my rocker.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:16 pm

Teoeo wrote:
Great Satchmo wrote:
Teoeo wrote:If you went to a store, would you pay 60k to change your degree from McGeorge to USD WITHOUT improving your chances at a job in the bay area?


Well, if I went to USD I'd plan on staying in San Diego (or Southern California, whatever I end up getting a hopefully decent job) for work for the foreseeable future.


I am just not convinced that all things being equal USD has much better job prospects, but maybe im off my rocker.


I'm not sure either - but for some reason I have this idea that USD >> McGeorge. Maybe it's that I grew up there and I know of USD, or maybe the damn US News rankings have seeped into my head more than I thought.

I know I prefer the Bay, but I can deal with San Diego. However, I don't prefer SD and I would only go if I feel that USD would offer both the better experience in school as well as a shot at better jobs than McGeorge (in their respective areas).

I think this may just be freaking out about finally having to commit...but I just want to explore it before I turn USD down (or, change my mind to USD).

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hoopsguy6
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby hoopsguy6 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:18 pm

USD seems like a much stronger regional school than McGeorge. It's pretty much the only law school in San Diego (besides the tier3/tier4 ones), while McGeorge has to compete with Davis for Sacramento, and Berkeley/Stanford/Hastings/etc for SF.


edit: also, SD >>>>>>>>>>> Sacramento

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Teoeo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Teoeo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:23 pm

hoopsguy6 wrote:USD seems like a much stronger regional school than McGeorge. It's pretty much the only law school in San Diego (besides the tier3/tier4 ones), while McGeorge has to compete with Davis for Sacramento, and Berkeley/Stanford/Hastings/etc for SF.


edit: also, SD >>>>>>>>>>> Sacramento


Is this really fair? I am PRETTY sure UCLA / USC / Boalt and even Irvine grads are going to be looking for jobs in San Diego as well.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:25 pm

Teoeo wrote:
hoopsguy6 wrote:USD seems like a much stronger regional school than McGeorge. It's pretty much the only law school in San Diego (besides the tier3/tier4 ones), while McGeorge has to compete with Davis for Sacramento, and Berkeley/Stanford/Hastings/etc for SF.


edit: also, SD >>>>>>>>>>> Sacramento


Is this really fair? I am PRETTY sure UCLA / USC / Boalt and even Irvine grads are going to be looking for jobs in San Diego as well.


My initial thoughts were that USD blankets San Diego, but after reading some posts from USD students, the top jobs are competed for by UCLA, USC, and other top school graduates. Plus USD students do have to go north toward OC and LA looking for work sometimes.

EDIT: The argument that Boalt and Stanford are in the Bay Area is legitimate, but how many graduates from those two schools stay in the area? I'd be more concerned about the competition from Hastings due to the class size and that a lot of the students stay in San Francisco.

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Teoeo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Teoeo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:34 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
Teoeo wrote:
hoopsguy6 wrote:USD seems like a much stronger regional school than McGeorge. It's pretty much the only law school in San Diego (besides the tier3/tier4 ones), while McGeorge has to compete with Davis for Sacramento, and Berkeley/Stanford/Hastings/etc for SF.


edit: also, SD >>>>>>>>>>> Sacramento


Is this really fair? I am PRETTY sure UCLA / USC / Boalt and even Irvine grads are going to be looking for jobs in San Diego as well.


My initial thoughts were that USD blankets San Diego, but after reading some posts from USD students, the top jobs are competed for by UCLA, USC, and other top school graduates. Plus USD students do have to go north toward OC and LA looking for work sometimes.

EDIT: The argument that Boalt and Stanford are in the Bay Area is legitimate, but how many graduates from those two schools stay in the area? I'd be more concerned about the competition from Hastings due to the class size and that a lot of the students stay in San Francisco.


+10000000

Boalt and Stanford are obviously not regional schools.

pomfiend
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby pomfiend » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:34 pm

What matters more to you - being in as little debt as possible or being happy at the school you choose?

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hoopsguy6
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby hoopsguy6 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:44 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
Teoeo wrote:
hoopsguy6 wrote:USD seems like a much stronger regional school than McGeorge. It's pretty much the only law school in San Diego (besides the tier3/tier4 ones), while McGeorge has to compete with Davis for Sacramento, and Berkeley/Stanford/Hastings/etc for SF.


edit: also, SD >>>>>>>>>>> Sacramento


Is this really fair? I am PRETTY sure UCLA / USC / Boalt and even Irvine grads are going to be looking for jobs in San Diego as well.


My initial thoughts were that USD blankets San Diego, but after reading some posts from USD students, the top jobs are competed for by UCLA, USC, and other top school graduates. Plus USD students do have to go north toward OC and LA looking for work sometimes.

EDIT: The argument that Boalt and Stanford are in the Bay Area is legitimate, but how many graduates from those two schools stay in the area? I'd be more concerned about the competition from Hastings due to the class size and that a lot of the students stay in San Francisco.


Merely pointing out the order that firm jobs go to in Cali: HYS, Berkeley, other t14/UCLA/USC, then a tiny smattering of regional grads who are summa cum laude/order of the coif/etc.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:47 pm

pomfiend wrote:What matters more to you - being in as little debt as possible or being happy at the school you choose?


If it were that simple, I'd go to USD and not worry about it. I think the experience as a student there would be great.

However, 3 years after I start school, I'm going to graduate and have to deal with the debt for decades. If I can bust my ass at McGeorge, I may very well come out with minimal debt (even if I don't, I have guaranteed debt reduction of $75k).

If USD offers opportunity that can negate that concern, then I'm all for it...but I guess I'm just not sure that it does.

pomfiend
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby pomfiend » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:57 pm

Hmm, well McGeorge sounds like a good school and it's in the general area you would prefer to practice in. You would have greater peace of mind coming out with less debt, too. I'm leaning towards McGeorge. Best of luck with your decision.

yo!
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby yo! » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:16 pm

How the hell did you get the strings removed from the Mcgeorge scholarship? I got the Kennedy fellowship, (full tuition, books, summer in Austria) but they wouldn't budge on the top 33 requirement...

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:20 pm

yo! wrote:How the hell did you get the strings removed from the Mcgeorge scholarship? I got the Kennedy fellowship, (full tuition, books, summer in Austria) but they wouldn't budge on the top 33 requirement...


PM'd.

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baboon309
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby baboon309 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:22 pm

yo! wrote:How the hell did you get the strings removed from the Mcgeorge scholarship? I got the Kennedy fellowship, (full tuition, books, summer in Austria) but they wouldn't budge on the top 33 requirement...


You are probablly not URM

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:23 pm

pomfiend wrote:Hmm, well McGeorge sounds like a good school and it's in the general area you would prefer to practice in. You would have greater peace of mind coming out with less debt, too. I'm leaning towards McGeorge. Best of luck with your decision.


And that's the pragmatic side. McGeorge makes sense in a lot of ways.

USD has some points for it, but doesn't seem, at least on paper, to make as much sense.

If everything after the 3 years of school was taken out of the equation, I'd go to USD. However debt is real, and I feel like I'd have a broader set of opportunities from McGeorge (both because of lower debt and because of access to the capital and Bay Area).

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:23 pm

baboon309 wrote:
yo! wrote:How the hell did you get the strings removed from the Mcgeorge scholarship? I got the Kennedy fellowship, (full tuition, books, summer in Austria) but they wouldn't budge on the top 33 requirement...


You are probablly not URM


Neither am I.

star10
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby star10 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:57 pm

I don't think a USD degree would be THAT much more helpful finding a job than a McGeorge degree would. Ranking in the 50's vs 90's isnt that much of a difference, especially when you factor in the cost of attending USD. It seems like you would have connections in SD regardless of going to school there if push came to shove after graduation.

I'm sure you've probably thought of it already, but is retaking an option? I hate to say that because it's such a TLS-answer but maybe if you want prestige/better bay area job options you should retake. It seems like for what you are looking for in a law school (just judging by reading your posts), Hastings is really the best fit for you. Maybe study like hell, pick up a sweet internship, and hold out another year?

I know that's an annoying answer and probably not the one you are looking for...

Edit: assuming you don't get off the UCH/UCD WL

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:08 pm

star10 wrote:I don't think a USD degree would be THAT much more helpful finding a job than a McGeorge degree would. Ranking in the 50's vs 90's isnt that much of a difference, especially when you factor in the cost of attending USD. It seems like you would have connections in SD regardless of going to school there if push came to shove after graduation.

I'm sure you've probably thought of it already, but is retaking an option? I hate to say that because it's such a TLS-answer but maybe if you want prestige/better bay area job options you should retake. It seems like for what you are looking for in a law school (just judging by reading your posts), Hastings is really the best fit for you. Maybe study like hell, pick up a sweet internship, and hold out another year?

I know that's an annoying answer and probably not the one you are looking for...

Edit: assuming you don't get off the UCH/UCD WL


Well, the problem with the retake is that I wasn't PT'ing much higher than I scored (although I wasn't fully committed to studying), and although I feel fairly confident in my abilities, I don't feel like I hit the threshold for being confident enough that I could score high enough to make it worth waiting.

And, even if I raised a few points, I'd be in some places I was out this cycle, and then I'd be upset about not having more money, or that I didn't get into a slightly better school - it's just how I am.

I know the guaranteed money from McGeorge is a good option. USD would be a great place to study law, but I'm concerned about debt and the compact legal market - I think USD may just be a last grab at cold feet on making the decision.

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Teoeo
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Re: Last time - McGeorge ($$) vs. USD ($)

Postby Teoeo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:11 pm

Well, I'll be withdrawing from Hastings soon, so maybe you can have my seat =)




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