Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where to go?

Seton Hall
8
17%
Miami
32
70%
Syracuse
6
13%
 
Total votes: 46

Potential1L2010
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Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Potential1L2010 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:54 pm

Got into these places, I hear Seton Halls median starting salary is 125K in private practice. I met with them and they assured me that this figure is correct. Miami= good weather, solid prospects in the region. Dont know much about syracuse, I'd like to hear your opinions!

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deadpanic
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby deadpanic » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:01 pm

Hate to break it to you, but at sticker, all are awful investments.

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beach_terror
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby beach_terror » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:08 pm

It's odd you got into Miami but didn't get a scholly at Syracuse. Did you do the merit aid essays?

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holydonkey
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby holydonkey » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:11 pm

Potential1L2010 wrote:Got into these places, I hear Seton Halls median starting salary is 125K in private practice. I met with them and they assured me that this figure is correct.
flame......................hmm......

If not flame, would you be interested in the investment opportunity of a life time?

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eagles86
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby eagles86 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:17 pm

I'm sure the "valvoline dean" promised you a brand new BMW as well! Seriously, Seton is known to be a scam and I'm paying sticker at Miami myself.

Potential1L2010
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Potential1L2010 » Wed May 05, 2010 5:35 pm

Why is Seton Hall such a bad investment? People bash SHU here...why

dakatz
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby dakatz » Wed May 05, 2010 5:38 pm

Why not look for lower-priced alternatives that are in the same range of schools? Past the Top 30 or so schools, rankings are largely irrelevant, and you should pick the lowest priced option in the best location. Seems like you are choosing high-priced schools in random locations, which isn't the right approach. Where do you want to ultimately end up? Once you answer this question, look for lower-priced options in that market so that you can minimize your debt.

Informative
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Informative » Wed May 05, 2010 6:34 pm

Easily Miami. Seton hall is horrible. Cuse is fine if you have a full ride and are okay with living in Albany for a few years after graduation.

Potential1L2010
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Potential1L2010 » Fri May 07, 2010 2:48 pm

Can anyone give me pros and cons of each school and explain the seton hall hate?

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Doritos
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Doritos » Fri May 07, 2010 3:24 pm

Potential1L2010 wrote:Can anyone give me pros and cons of each school and explain the seton hall hate?


I do not hate anybody or any school but let's take a look at the employment statistics for Seton...

(This is class of 2008 mind who did their OCI and hiring before ITE crushed our dreams)

They say 100% of the class is reporting employment info but only 66.45% reporting salary

So right off the bat 1/3 of the class is unaccounted for with these stats.

Now you mentioned something about a 125k starting salary. That is the median of the private sector

So of the 66.45% who are reporting their salary 40% are in private practice

So .4*66.45 = 26.58% of the class is now accounted for.

Median means middle so 13.29% of the class is accounted for when this 125k is spoken of. It's a safe bet to assume that those are the top of the class since they are the people most likely to report. Better the grades the more likely one is to come into a big payday on graduation. Surely there are a few people near the top of the class who go into clerkships and Public Interest but it's safe to assume that this 13.29% is approximately the top of the class. So 87% of people going to SHU are not going to see this 125k median salary they speak of. On top of that starting salaries in the legal field are bimodal in distribution. Here is a link for class of 2007...http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_le ... 007-s.html. So a lot of the time if you don't hit the big payday in biglaw there is a steep drop off in salary.

Not to pick on SHU [strike]a lot[/strike] all law schools report their employment statistics this way and it's on you to interpret the data in a meaningful way. hth

Source...http://law.shu.edu/publications/upload/ ... rvices.pdf

edit: Does anybody else find it surprising that they reported nearly 40% of their class doing clerkships?
Last edited by Doritos on Fri May 07, 2010 3:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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holydonkey
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby holydonkey » Fri May 07, 2010 3:26 pm

Potential1L2010 wrote:Can anyone...explain the seton hall hate?
--LinkRemoved--
The law degree that Scott Bullock gained in 2005 from Seton Hall University -- where he says he ranked in the top third of his class -- is a "waste," he says. Some former high-school friends are earning considerably more as plumbers and electricians than the $50,000-a-year Mr. Bullock is making as a personal-injury attorney in Manhattan. To boot, he is paying off $118,000 in law-school debt.
http://T14 Paradise.blogspot.com/20 ... rsity.html
Judicial clerkships accounted for 39.51% of employed SHU grads in 2008! One wonders how many are clerking for Small Claims Court or at the Essex County General Equity Court – or at the Child Support Enforcement Division?

http://www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prel ... =4022616.0
They throw people into one year traffic court clerkships for one year to manipulate their 9 months after graduation employment numbers and then you are on your own, which usually means $30 an hour contract review, which will demolish your resume.

Check out Temporary Attorney and Big Debt Small Law, there should be a few accounts by SH grads...With a full ride you will be in the same bucket, just without loans.

--LinkRemoved--
Let’s knock on Cozen O’Connors door, a huge 550+ attorney Biglaw slop-shop located directly across the street from Seton Hall’s battle-scarred Newark campus:

--LinkRemoved--

Hilarious! Seton Hall is conspicuously absent from the OCI schedule despite being located directly across the street from the school! What does it tell you about Seton Hall’s reputation that a major international firm won’t spare ten minutes to send someone across the street to scrounge resumes, much less participate in OCI? Did you know that only 4 of Cozen’s 550 associates are Seton Hall grads, and the firm hasn’t hired anyone new from Seton Hall in nearly a decade?
--LinkRemoved--
Seton Hall's basketball team sucks as much as its law school and with good reason: both are run by Patrick Hobbs, the dean of Seton Hall Law, who is also acting as overseer of the athletics department.
At least he's consistent, screwing up at both jobs.

etc, etc, etc

Potential1L2010
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Potential1L2010 » Fri May 07, 2010 3:29 pm

Also, why do they call the dean the "valvoline dean". Is this school really that dishonest when it comes to reporting job prospects? If so you can book my trip to Miami lol

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bk1
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby bk1 » Fri May 07, 2010 3:40 pm

Most schools are not entirely forthright when it comes to job prospects. Job prospects are what drive most people to attend law school (when you consider how high the cost is), thus schools have a higher incentive to obscure the stats the worse that their stats are (which is considerably bad despite the fact that their tuition is often the same as better ranked schools).

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Grizz
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Grizz » Fri May 07, 2010 3:45 pm

Miami is not a very good investment at sticker ITE. But that's really your best option. Good luck.

LSATfromNC
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby LSATfromNC » Fri May 07, 2010 3:49 pm

None, where is the in state public school option at? Why all private schools with no merit aid?

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Grizz
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Grizz » Fri May 07, 2010 3:54 pm

Honestly, I retract my previous advice. Retake and reapply is your best bet.

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JCougar
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby JCougar » Fri May 07, 2010 4:10 pm

None of those choices are reasonable, but of them, Miami is the least unreasonable if you are comfortable staying in Miami for your first job.

All law schools are way over-priced right now, but potential students are constantly conned into thinking it's worth it because a fraction of every class makes bank when they graduate, and every student thinks they are the exception to the rule. Law schools feed into this belief by juicing their statistics any way they can. The only schools that give you enough of a chance to pay off the full cost of their education after graduation are the T14, and perhaps the T18 depending on the circumstances.

Law school tuition has skyrocketed over the last 15 years, and biglaw salaries have skyrocketed as well. But 85-90% of law graduates DO NOT GET BIGLAW, and the salaries for non-biglaw jobs have remained virtually flat during this time span.

It's your decision if you want to gamble close to $200,000 in tuition and opportunity costs for a very slim shot at being able to pay off that debt in a decent time frame. You could buy a decent house for that knid of money where I live.

I would look for cheaper options if I were you. If you can't find any this year, retake the LSAT and reapply. If you absolutely have to go to law school this year, Miami wouldn't be the worst thing you can do. It's top dog in a pretty big metropolitan area, whereas the other two schools have much, much tougher regional competition.

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Grizz
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Grizz » Fri May 07, 2010 4:15 pm

JCougar wrote:None of those choices are reasonable, but of them, Miami is the least unreasonable if you are comfortable staying in Miami for your first job.

All law schools are way over-priced right now, but potential students are constantly conned into thinking it's worth it because a fraction of every class makes bank when they graduate, and every student thinks they are the exception to the rule. Law schools feed into this belief by juicing their statistics any way they can. The only schools that give you enough of a chance to pay off the full cost of their education after graduation are the T14, and perhaps the T18 depending on the circumstances.

Law school tuition has skyrocketed over the last 15 years, and biglaw salaries have skyrocketed as well. But 85-90% of law graduates DO NOT GET BIGLAW, and the salaries for non-biglaw jobs have remained virtually flat during this time span.

It's your decision if you want to gamble close to $200,000 in tuition and opportunity costs for a very slim shot at being able to pay off that debt in a decent time frame. You could buy a decent house for that knid of money where I live.

I would look for cheaper options if I were you. If you can't find any this year, retake the LSAT and reapply. If you absolutely have to go to law school this year, Miami wouldn't be the worst thing you can do. It's [strike]top dog in a pretty big metropolitan area[/strike] about as well-respected as UF in south FL, whereas the other two schools have much, much tougher regional competition.


FTFY, but everything else was spot on.

keg411
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby keg411 » Fri May 07, 2010 4:16 pm

LSATfromNC wrote:None, where is the in state public school option at? Why all private schools with no merit aid?

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najumobi
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby najumobi » Fri May 07, 2010 4:18 pm

Potential1L2010 wrote:Got into these places, I hear Seton Halls median starting salary is 125K in private practice. I met with them and they assured me that this figure is correct. Miami= good weather, solid prospects in the region. Dont know much about syracuse, I'd like to hear your opinions!
@ sticker these aren't great options. of these schools it looks like miami is the only one that is upfront with usnews about their employment stats. according to usnews only 20% of the class makes 70k or more. that's not good odds when you're going to be in debt of over 200k. i would seriously consider the public counterparts to these, like fsu and rutgers camden, newark.

but to answer your question, i would go with miami. miami and other areas in florida have lower cost of living than nj/ny so if you end up with a low paying job and tons of debt it would allow you to more easily manage your debt.

Potential1L2010
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Potential1L2010 » Fri May 07, 2010 4:32 pm

I dont believe biglaw is the only way to pay off debt. That is the elitist TLSers talking right there. I'm not going to pout if I make "only" 80- 100K starting out. The only 20% makes 70k or more part i think is a tad off. I'm confident in my ability to do well in school.

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beach_terror
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby beach_terror » Fri May 07, 2010 4:34 pm

Potential1L2010 wrote: I'm not going to pout if I make "only" 80- 100K starting out.


ITE, that's basically biglaw salary. You should bank on around 50k. Also, all of your classmates are going to be "confident" in their abilities to do well too.
Last edited by beach_terror on Fri May 07, 2010 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JCougar
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby JCougar » Fri May 07, 2010 4:35 pm

najumobi wrote:
Potential1L2010 wrote:Got into these places, I hear Seton Halls median starting salary is 125K in private practice. I met with them and they assured me that this figure is correct. Miami= good weather, solid prospects in the region. Dont know much about syracuse, I'd like to hear your opinions!
@ sticker these aren't great options. of these schools it looks like miami is the only one that is upfront with usnews about their employment stats. according to usnews only 20% of the class makes 70k or more. that's not good odds when you're going to be in debt of over 200k. i would seriously consider the public counterparts to these, like fsu and rutgers camden, newark.

but to answer your question, i would go with miami. miami and other areas in florida have lower cost of living than nj/ny so if you end up with a low paying job and tons of debt it would allow you to more easily manage your debt.


Speaking of in-state alternatives, OP should consider FIU if he/she can somehow get in-state tuition. You're practically guarunteed not to get biglaw, but tuition there is an absolute steal ($13k/year), and it's not nearly as bad as some of the other Florida toilet schools. It might even be worth moving to the area for one year and establishing residency, and applying next year, if that's the area where OP really wants to practice.

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JCougar
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby JCougar » Fri May 07, 2010 4:40 pm

Potential1L2010 wrote:I dont believe biglaw is the only way to pay off debt. That is the elitist TLSers talking right there. I'm not going to pout if I make "only" 80- 100K starting out. The only 20% makes 70k or more part i think is a tad off. I'm confident in my ability to do well in school.


Your chances of making "only 80-100K" are pretty low as well.

Even from mid- to lower T1 schools, the majority of the class is looking at $60K at best. You're talking about T2 schools here.

People on here aren't elitist, they actually care about other potential students getting screwed.

Potential1L2010
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Re: Seton Hall/Miami/ Syracuse- all sticker

Postby Potential1L2010 » Fri May 07, 2010 4:42 pm

I have faith that the economy will rebound, some people here think its in the toliet to stay...i dont.




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