What will UCI be ranked???

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

UCI's rank when accredited

T14
5
3%
T20
9
5%
T25
22
13%
T30
27
16%
T30-50
69
41%
T2
36
21%
 
Total votes: 168

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pany1985
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby pany1985 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:03 pm

FYI, there are lots of biglaw firms in OC. Most pay 160. I don't think anyone going to UCI is gonna be crying themselves to sleep at night if they end up working 10 minutes from the beach, making the same money as associates freezing their asses off in Chicago.

eth3n
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby eth3n » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:14 pm

pany1985 wrote:FYI, there are lots of biglaw firms in OC. Most pay 160. I don't think anyone going to UCI is gonna be crying themselves to sleep at night if they end up working 10 minutes from the beach, making the same money as associates freezing their asses off in Chicago.


/thread, UCI = t14 secure

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pany1985
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby pany1985 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:16 pm

Tell me your thoughts on this, eth3n. Are you just trolling for the hell of it or do you have a legit reason for saying that biglaw in OC is some horrible TTT fate?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying OC is the only place where UCI grads might be finding jobs. It's just where it's most likely. I think LA and San Diego are both entirely reasonable. They're close enough to be excited about a new UC and I'm sure at least some firms in both places have a desire to pick up some new grads.

As far as NY and DC, I think they're certaintly possible (some UCI students are working in NY and DC this summer), although the hype is undoubtedly less outside of CA. That's pretty much the case for any school outside of Harvard and Yale; the local market is where employers will be most excited about you and where you're most likely to get offers. Nobody rags on UCLA for placing students a lot better in LA than in Chicago or NY.

270910
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby 270910 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:21 pm

OC big law is a fabulous fate. I wish the best to UCI grads in securing that (and other) employment and imagine anyone on a full ride who gets a 6 figure firm job in OC after graduation will think they made the greatest conceivable life choice.

We're talking about rankings though, and the T20 (T25) schools all have national placement punch. If UCI can't give that to its grads, my guess is the rankings will reflect that fact.

eth3n
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby eth3n » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:42 pm

pany1985 wrote:Tell me your thoughts on this, eth3n. Are you just trolling for the hell of it or do you have a legit reason for saying that biglaw in OC is some horrible TTT fate?


Sorry last post was right after reviewing a particularly horrible preptest, so its a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B.

I think that any school providing a guaranteed job, especially one that pays 100+ in such a lovely local as the OC is enough reason to go to UCI at sticker. I would do it in a second if I was RPP.

My problem is the following, (admitting I have incredibly little knowledge about UCI and that I cannot tell the future) right now IMO UCI's biggest draw is simply the power of its faculty to field epic jobs for its 2012 class (which clearly you belong to). To be perfectly honest, even if UCI never got accredited the 60 in 2012 of you will likely be set4life.

However, over the next few years the size of the incoming class will increase while the money being offered will decrease. When this is taken with the prima facie implausibility of the faculty being able to continuously secure awesome jobs due to their personal/professional connections for ever-increasing numbers of students, I think that many students with t14 numbers will choose the security, portability (Chicago/NY/DC/even SF is questionable), and opportunity (i.e. clerkship/gov/anything other than OC biglaw) of t14 schools over UCI. I think that despite the general increase in applications, UCI's incoming numbers will continually fall for the above reasons.

Let me make it perfectly clear that for all I know you guys could be getting the best education in the country (although wtf does that really mean anyways). However the only objective standard that will represent this is CA bar passage rate, and I don't know how meaningful this will really be (assuming you guys rape face at beat stanford or something) to either USNWR or employers outside of the region. And as stupid as it is, we are talking about the rankings game in this post.

However, there is really no way to know what will happen, and I am obviously only here because I dread taking another closed-note tort racehorse practice test. Sorry for the last post. And for full disclosure, I go to Davis so my fate is TTT (but far less so then Hastings grads) no matter what.

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arhmcpo
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby arhmcpo » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:56 pm

eth3n wrote:
pany1985 wrote:Tell me your thoughts on this, eth3n. Are you just trolling for the hell of it or do you have a legit reason for saying that biglaw in OC is some horrible TTT fate?


Sorry last post was right after reviewing a particularly horrible preptest, so its a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B.

I think that any school providing a guaranteed job, especially one that pays 100+ in such a lovely local as the OC is enough reason to go to UCI at sticker. I would do it in a second if I was RPP.

My problem is the following, (admitting I have incredibly little knowledge about UCI and that I cannot tell the future) right now IMO UCI's biggest draw is simply the power of its faculty to field epic jobs for its 2012 class (which clearly you belong to). To be perfectly honest, even if UCI never got accredited the 60 in 2012 of you will likely be set4life.

However, over the next few years the size of the incoming class will increase while the money being offered will decrease. When this is taken with the prima facie implausibility of the faculty being able to continuously secure awesome jobs due to their personal/professional connections for ever-increasing numbers of students, I think that many students with t14 numbers will choose the security, portability (Chicago/NY/DC/even SF is questionable), and opportunity (i.e. clerkship/gov/anything other than OC biglaw) of t14 schools over UCI. I think that despite the general increase in applications, UCI's incoming numbers will continually fall for the above reasons.

Let me make it perfectly clear that for all I know you guys could be getting the best education in the country (although wtf does that really mean anyways). However the only objective standard that will represent this is CA bar passage rate, and I don't know how meaningful this will really be (assuming you guys rape face at beat stanford or something) to either USNWR or employers outside of the region. And as stupid as it is, we are talking about the rankings game in this post.

However, there is really no way to know what will happen, and I am obviously only here because I dread taking another closed-note tort racehorse practice test. Sorry for the last post. And for full disclosure, I go to Davis so my fate is TTT (but far less so then Hastings grads) no matter what.


FWIW I think you have surpassed SoftBoiledLife as the designated Davis Troll :D ; and directly opposite Sweat of course. Can't wait for a TLS fight to the death.

eth3n
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby eth3n » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:00 pm

arhmcpo wrote:FWIW I think you have surpassed SoftBoiledLife as the designated Davis Troll :D ; and directly opposite Sweat of course. Can't wait for a TLS fight to the death.


Ya this is definitely a sign I need to lay off TLS and go study :oops:

ViP
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby ViP » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:11 pm

As you can imagine, a few prospective students at ASD asked Chemerinsky how he plans to continue to attract T14/T20 students when the scholarship money runs dry. Rather than boasting of the school's faculty and students, the dean said he honestly believes that it's the unique education that will continue to attract top-notch students to UCI.

Chemerinsky is literally building the foundation of what he considers the "ideal" law school. Along with the students, the faculty, and the administration, he has the privilege of creating a curriculum and philosophy from scratch.

He strongly, strongly believes that UCI provides a legal education at least on par with any school in the nation. His words, not mine. While this may seem like a stretch, it's hardly impossible to believe. The top-notch faculty combined with Dean Chemerinsky's leadership and the nation's best student-faculty ratio allows for an intimate law school experience that seems to be ideal for aspiring lawyers.

It's very true that UCI has no alumni network. However, the school has already considered this fact and has a plan to counter it. The idea is to get the faculty and administration actively involved in using their own connections across the country to land prestigious interviews for UCI students, at which point UCI students will ostensibly knock-out the competition.

keg411
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby keg411 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:19 pm

I think the first few classes at UCI will be "set" because the school knows they need to find the students quality jobs. After that, when there are no more "half schollys for all", the numbers are going to drop off. Will probably end up on the same footing as Hastings/Davis, but will be strong regionally in Orange County. I'd guess it will eventually end up mid-lower T1 (30-50). A bit better than Pepperdine/Loyola/USD for SoCal, but not on par with UCLA/USC.

That said, I think the first 2-3 classes are going to be golden in terms of career prospects; only because if they aren't the school will fail quickly and the people involved have way too much riding on UCI's success.

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Borhas
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby Borhas » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:28 pm

arhmcpo wrote:
FWIW I think you have surpassed SoftBoiledLife as the designated Davis Troll :D ; and directly opposite Sweat of course. Can't wait for a TLS fight to the death.


They're good people

Image

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Blindmelon
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:30 pm

I could definitely see UCI as a Northeastern type school - quirky and really good for what it is - but won't overtake the more entrenched/established LSs in the area. Current UCI students in this thread need to come back to reality a bit - every law school is working really hard to get the best faculty they can (BU where I am we have some of the most preeminent scholars in health and admin law and we're only a T25), up numbers, place students, etc. Also - every LS has faculty that strongly push their own connections. Thats how lots of people get clerkships at most schools.

UCI will suffer a tad from the fact that no one outside of CA has heard of the school, and CA itself has Stanford >>>> Berkley >>>>> UCLA > USC >>>> UCH/UCD. UCSD and all the others. Extremely crowded state law school-wise, and with a lack of any sort of national name recognition, its going to be tough.

ViP
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby ViP » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:53 pm

Blindmelon wrote:I could definitely see UCI as a Northeastern type school - quirky and really good for what it is - but won't overtake the more entrenched/established LSs in the area. Current UCI students in this thread need to come back to reality a bit - every law school is working really hard to get the best faculty they can (BU where I am we have some of the most preeminent scholars in health and admin law and we're only a T25), up numbers, place students, etc. Also - every LS has faculty that strongly push their own connections. Thats how lots of people get clerkships at most schools.

UCI will suffer a tad from the fact that no one outside of CA has heard of the school, and CA itself has Stanford >>>> Berkley >>>>> UCLA > USC >>>> UCH/UCD. UCSD and all the others. Extremely crowded state law school-wise, and with a lack of any sort of national name recognition, its going to be tough.


UCI has given its law school the green light to match any other law school's offer for any professor in the country. They can literally afford to grab professors that are not only prolific, but that have also won teaching awards at top schools. I'm pretty sure the most respected faculty rankings available are Leiter's, and he ranks UCI as 9th in the country. That's nothing to overlook, especially considering UCI is a brand new school.

In terms of all faculties pushing their own connections... It's a lot easier when the student-faculty ratio is 3:1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no way everyone can take advantage of professors' personal connections at most schools. The top students, perhaps.

Also, just FYI- it was a BU professor that told me how awesome UCI sounds (before I even mentioned it to him). He said the top schools are definitely aware of UCI's faculty and there's no doubt that it already looks like a top school. Just one professor's opinion, but since he's from your school I thought it might interest you :) .

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Grizz
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby Grizz » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:02 am

disco_barred wrote:In fact, I'll just go out and say it: If UCI doesn't send a good percentage of students to big firms in NYC/DC/Chicago, the school's chances at establishing itself at the top of the law school pecking order are shot. They will never pull a strong student body if the first round of employment prospects show their grads cleaning up at BIG ORANGE COUNTY LAW. Which isn't to marginalize OC or its law, I'm sure it exists - and UCI will thus comfortably establish itself as a regional law school, like most schools in the lower T1 and below.


This.

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pany1985
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby pany1985 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:05 am

I don't doubt at all that every law school in the country (or at least the overwhelming majority) wants to get the best faculty they can. I don't think anyone is suggesting that UCI ought to be ranked higher than the traditional big shots in SoCal, UCLA and USC. They're both very well-established schools with a long history of good rankings. Even being close to that level with a new school would be awfully impressive. I personally think the education I'm getting at UCI is every bit as good as I would get getting at those schools (I actually think it's probably a lot better, but I'm biased), but I also know that's not what USNWR looks at when they do their rankings. I think UCI could easily be a solid T30, though. There are a lot of law schools in CA, but it's a huge state with tons of people (and no high-quality law schools south of LA other than UCI).

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Grizz
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby Grizz » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:10 am

ViP wrote:As you can imagine, a few prospective students at ASD asked Chemerinsky how he plans to continue to attract T14/T20 students when the scholarship money runs dry. Rather than boasting of the school's faculty and students, the dean said he honestly believes that it's the unique education that will continue to attract top-notch students to UCI.


Sounds like a roundabout way of saying "no clue, brah."

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mshflyer
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby mshflyer » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:14 am

I'm finishing up my undergrad at UCI right now and seriously, it's no lie that the orange county community is really excited about UCI law. Yes, there are a ton of law schools in california, but there are only two great ones in l.a. and four in the north, and frankly California is gigantic. Orange county is one of the most densely populated counties in the country and the law school has the opportunity to fill a need that isn't really being filled by other top law schools right now. These grads may have great possibilities in orange county and in san diego, where there is no tier 1 law school. This may make it a regional school, but I don't think many people would object to having to work in southern california when they graduate.

I can't speculate as to where it will end up in the rankings, but I think the job prospects are there for people who want them.

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lt0826
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby lt0826 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:47 am

eth3n wrote:
pany1985 wrote:Talk to any legal employer in Orange County (and there are a lot of legal employers in Orange County) and they say they're very eager to get their hands on some UCI grads. They may be lying. There's no way to know for sure until OCI rolls around. I get the sense things will be fine, though.


Well at least all those people that could go t10 sticker will be happy to know that they have a good chance at working in Orange County...rofl


Well if you don't want to consider working in OC then Irvine may not be the right place for you. Some people might not mind the OC as an option and some even desire it - imagine that!! Really sucks to have nice weather year round and not have to worry about shoveling the driveway before leaving for work at 6AM.

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lt0826
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby lt0826 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:58 am

disco_barred wrote:In fact, I'll just go out and say it: If UCI doesn't send a good percentage of students to big firms in NYC/DC/Chicago, the school's chances at establishing itself at the top of the law school pecking order are shot. They will never pull a strong student body if the first round of employment prospects show their grads cleaning up at BIG ORANGE COUNTY LAW. Which isn't to marginalize OC or its law, I'm sure it exists - and UCI will thus comfortably establish itself as a regional law school, like most schools in the lower T1 and below.


Does where the school place really make a difference in the rankings? It might affect the reputation scores a little, but if a high percentage of their graduates are employed at graduation and 6 months out isn't that what really gets looked at as far as employment for rankings.

As pany has mentioned, as each class shows good numbers, more people with good numbers will consider UCI and give them a chance. Part of me wishes I had applied last year. But then again, I may have passed up the free ride not knowing anything about the incoming class and having some T20 acceptances. But for me getting to visit the class, meet the students, know that they not only had decent numbers but are doing amazing things as 1Ls - that they are bright and articulate, etc - all of that makes me willing to gamble on UCI. And the scholarship money means a lot to me vs paying sticker to Georgetown or TX.

So Y - the fact there was an incoming class for me to talk to and a campus in action for me to visit helped me make my decision to submit my SIR there. I am not sure what decision I would have made had I applied to law school last year.

I suspect if this class also has good numbers and as law journal gets going and clinics form that next year even more students will consider UCI a real option.

And for each class that is successful and has good numbers the more likely the next class will as well.

UCI is being very smart in prioritizing keeping the class small until its reputation is established.

I don't know where they will debut. I suspect top 30, but who knows. I am certain it won't debut as a T2 thougb - I would be shocked if they do. But even if they do - seeing the commitment of the local employers make me less worried about finding work afterwords.

Also, faculty have their own contacts. They aren't overwhelmed with a lot of students looking for work. They can go to bat for their students and help with the contacts they have.

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Dignan
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby Dignan » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:08 am

ViP wrote:UCI has given its law school the green light to match any other law school's offer for any professor in the country. They can literally afford to grab professors that are not only prolific, but that have also won teaching awards at top schools.

I don't have an opinion on the "What will UCI be ranked?" debate, but there's something I am curious about: Where on earth is UCI getting all this money? The state of California in general, and the UC Regents in particular, are broke. And UCI does not, obviously, have an alumni base. Yet UCI is apparently offering massive scholarships to all students while paying top dollar for elite faculty.

Are all faculty and staff taking out second mortgages on their homes in order to finance the school? Is UCI a drug front? Seriously, where is the money coming from?

Tofu
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby Tofu » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:12 am

Dignan wrote:
ViP wrote:UCI has given its law school the green light to match any other law school's offer for any professor in the country. They can literally afford to grab professors that are not only prolific, but that have also won teaching awards at top schools.

I don't have an opinion on the "What will UCI be ranked?" debate, but there's something I am curious about: Where on earth is UCI getting all this money? The state of California in general, and the UC Regents in particular, are broke. And UCI does not, obviously, have an alumni base. Yet UCI is apparently offering massive scholarships to all students while paying top dollar for elite faculty.

Are all faculty and staff taking out second mortgages on their homes in order to finance the school? Is UCI a drug front? Seriously, where is the money coming from?


donald bren + some other people in the oc community donated

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pany1985
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby pany1985 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:13 am

Luckily, Chemerinsky is just as good at being a Dean (and, in that capacity, working out financial arrangements and raising money) as he is at being a professor. He worked out a a deal where the law school's money from the larger university can't really be messed with, recession be damned.

ViP
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby ViP » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:14 am

Dignan wrote:
ViP wrote:UCI has given its law school the green light to match any other law school's offer for any professor in the country. They can literally afford to grab professors that are not only prolific, but that have also won teaching awards at top schools.

I don't have an opinion on the "What will UCI be ranked?" debate, but there's something I am curious about: Where on earth is UCI getting all this money? The state of California in general, and the UC Regents in particular, are broke. And UCI does not, obviously, have an alumni base. Yet UCI is apparently offering massive scholarships to all students while paying top dollar for elite faculty.

Are all faculty and staff taking out second mortgages on their homes in order to finance the school? Is UCI a drug front? Seriously, where is the money coming from?


Orange County is full of rich, rich people that have been begging UCI to build a law school for many years. Primary funding has been from private donors, such as Donald Bren, who oh-so-kindly donated $20 million last year :D .

Also, Dean Ortiz (or Chemerinsky... can't remember) said that during emergencies (e.g. the economic crisis), you always protect your baby first. The law school is UCI's baby, and UCI has promised to make sure the program has everything it needs to succeed and meet its goal of being a top-20 school. Who knows what'll happen in terms of ranking. They're very, very serious about it, though.

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Dignan
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby Dignan » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:16 am

Tofu wrote:
Dignan wrote:
ViP wrote:UCI has given its law school the green light to match any other law school's offer for any professor in the country. They can literally afford to grab professors that are not only prolific, but that have also won teaching awards at top schools.

I don't have an opinion on the "What will UCI be ranked?" debate, but there's something I am curious about: Where on earth is UCI getting all this money? The state of California in general, and the UC Regents in particular, are broke. And UCI does not, obviously, have an alumni base. Yet UCI is apparently offering massive scholarships to all students while paying top dollar for elite faculty.

Are all faculty and staff taking out second mortgages on their homes in order to finance the school? Is UCI a drug front? Seriously, where is the money coming from?


donald bren + some other people in the oc community donated

Cool. They must've donated a lot of money. When you add the capital costs of new facilities to the scholarships, faculty salaries, and staff salaries, I think you're probably in the tens of millions of dollars.

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pany1985
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby pany1985 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:17 am

There are some other favorable money situations between the law school and the overall unversity that should allow UCI to offer a lot of scholarships in the long term. I'm not sure if I'm really authorized to talk about that stuff... but it's good stuff.

doomed123
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Re: What will UCI be ranked???

Postby doomed123 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:37 am

pany1985 wrote:There are some other favorable money situations between the law school and the overall unversity that should allow UCI to offer a lot of scholarships in the long term. I'm not sure if I'm really authorized to talk about that stuff... but it's good stuff.


Drug front confirmed.




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