Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

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GT2010
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Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby GT2010 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:17 pm

Okay, long time lurker, first time poster. I would LOVE any and all opinions, I have thought about each option so much that now I’m just going in circles, and I’m pretty sure my friends will kill me if I talk about it anymore.

Basically, I got into Duke, got my scholarship, was all set on going, and then way later got into Michigan, got the exact same scholarship as the one Duke offered, and am now totally torn. Michigan was my secret dream school, but I basically convinced myself I wasn’t getting in, and then after getting accepted to/visiting Duke fell in love with Duke instead.

The most important thing for me in making my decision is which school will give me the best job prospects upon graduation. I want big law to start, probably doing something with criminal law, but eventually would like to do something else, maybe work in more of a boutique firm, for a DA’s office, raise a family, whatever. I really want to be in DC but ITE I’m open to secondary markets, in which case I would prefer to be in the South.

For the school itself, I would like to be in a relatively non competitive environment, where the students have a fairly good balance of doing school work and having a life/being social (to the extent to which this is possible in law school haha). And I like schools with a strong sense of "community." It’s also really important to me that professors are easily accessible to all students and willing to help them out. Also, I hate cold weather and my boyfriend’s in DC.

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thickfreakness
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby thickfreakness » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:27 pm

Let's see. You hate cold weather, want to be in DC (or failing that, the south), and your SO is in DC. Sounds like Duke is a winner here. See you next fall.

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ObviouslyMasochistic
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby ObviouslyMasochistic » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:35 pm

Agreed. Beers are on me when you rookies get here.

GT2010
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby GT2010 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:15 pm

Haha when you put it that way, yea the answer does seem is obvious. I guess I was just sort of under the impression that Michigan might place be better in DC due to it's slighting higher ranking (but that could just be from reading too many higher is always better posts). I have seen the biglaw placement stats for both school as well as the stats about how many students each school sends to DC, but does anyone have any insight as to if one school offers a student gunning for DC any sort of clear advantage? Thanks so much!

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thickfreakness
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby thickfreakness » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:19 pm

Maybe Michigan has a slight edge, but I think the other factors more than make up for it. Duke's new Duke in DC program has a lot of energy behind it, though. I think Dean Levi and Co. are trying to get more Duke grads into DC. The differences are likely going to be small, at best.

swimbrad
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby swimbrad » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:21 pm

thickfreakness wrote:Maybe Michigan has a slight edge, but I think the other factors more than make up for it. Duke's new Duke in DC program has a lot of energy behind it, though. I think Dean Levi Strauss and Co. are trying to get more Duke grads into DC. The differences are likely going to be small, at best.

ftfy...

btw, totally go to Duke, you'll love it - the research triangle is ftw!

byunbee
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby byunbee » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:23 pm

GT2010 wrote:Haha when you put it that way, yea the answer does seem is obvious. I guess I was just sort of under the impression that Michigan might place be better in DC due to it's slighting higher ranking (but that could just be from reading too many higher is always better posts). I have seen the biglaw placement stats for both school as well as the stats about how many students each school sends to DC, but does anyone have any insight as to if one school offers a student gunning for DC any sort of clear advantage? Thanks so much!


I think only about 10% of Michigan grads go to DC every year, with a plurality ending up in New York and Chicago. This most likely reflects the preferences of Michigan students. Some people (Michigan career services staff that I've talked to) would say this is an advantage because you will have less competition from other Michigan grads for D.C. jobs. Of course this could be false, there very well could be fewer open doors for Michigan grads in DC. But I'm still a 0L, so I can't really provide any insight into that. Maybe some Duke or Michigan attendees can weigh in here?

showNprove
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby showNprove » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:15 am

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Last edited by showNprove on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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doinmybest
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby doinmybest » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:43 am

I visited both schools. Here is my opinion mixed in with your preferences, take it with a grain of salt.
GT2010 wrote:
Michigan was my secret dream school, but I basically convinced myself I wasn’t getting in.

Mich +1
GT2010 wrote:and then after getting accepted to/visiting Duke fell in love with Duke instead..

Duke +1
GT2010 wrote: The most important thing for me in making my decision is which school will give me the best job prospects upon graduation..

...Very close but Michigan +1 due to a combo of recent NLJ250 rankings and clerkship placement.
GT2010 wrote: I really want to be in DC but ITE I’m open to secondary markets, in which case I would prefer to be in the South..

Duke +1
GT2010 wrote: For the school itself, I would like to be in a relatively non competitive environment, where the students have a fairly good balance of doing school work and having a life/being social (to the extent to which this is possible in law school haha)..

Michigan +1
GT2010 wrote: And I like schools with a strong sense of "community.".

Michigan +1
GT2010 wrote: It’s also really important to me that professors are easily accessible to all students and willing to help them out.

Tie. If someone from both schools could speak to this we could break the tie.
GT2010 wrote: Also, I hate cold weather.

Duke +1
GT2010 wrote: and my boyfriend’s in DC..

Duke +1

Damn... Visit Michigan and get back to us.
Michigan = 4
Duke = 4

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Jericwithers
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby Jericwithers » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:21 am

I take offense that Michigan hands down wins for 'non-competiveness' and 'sense of community' but I have never visited so it may be true.

I accept the offer for free beers, by the way.

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doinmybest
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby doinmybest » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:05 am

Jericwithers wrote:I take offense that Michigan hands down wins for 'non-competiveness' and 'sense of community' but I have never visited so it may be true.


I could be wrong, but I'm just going off what I saw on both visits. I should say that neither school seemed particularly cut-throat.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:36 am

"I want big law to start, probably doing something with criminal law...". = part of the original post that I found interesting & perplexing.

If you hate cold weather, then Michigan is not for you. Simple as that; although it would be interesting to read why Michigan was your "dream school".

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Bosque
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby Bosque » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:08 am

doinmybest wrote:
Jericwithers wrote:I take offense that Michigan hands down wins for 'non-competiveness' and 'sense of community' but I have never visited so it may be true.


I could be wrong, but I'm just going off what I saw on both visits. I should say that neither school seemed particularly cut-throat.


I second Jericwithers comment. I find it extremely hard to believe any school tops us in those categories. Tie, possibly. But top? Absolutely not.

I am very competitive about my non-competitiveness.

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Jericwithers
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby Jericwithers » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:11 am

Bosque wrote:
doinmybest wrote:
Jericwithers wrote:I take offense that Michigan hands down wins for 'non-competiveness' and 'sense of community' but I have never visited so it may be true.


I could be wrong, but I'm just going off what I saw on both visits. I should say that neither school seemed particularly cut-throat.


I second Jericwithers comment. I find it extremely hard to believe any school tops us in those categories. Tie, possibly. But top? Absolutely not.

I am very competitive about my non-competitiveness.


Hrm, I retract my comment. Too competitive :shock:

All schools are competitive about not being competitive (except Chicago), so I just look at it as a made up selling point that is only good to distinguished between Chicago and non-Chicago schools.

showNprove
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby showNprove » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:33 am

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Last edited by showNprove on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jericwithers
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby Jericwithers » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:35 am

showNprove wrote:GT2010,

Keep in mind that this thread is full of Duke students. Where are all the Michigan students at to defend their school?


To be fair I would have defended any school if someone was saying that non-competitiveness (and possibly community) was a plus in the favor of that school, unless the other school was Chicago.

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holydonkey
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby holydonkey » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:50 am

showNprove wrote:GT2010,

Keep in mind that this thread is full of Duke students. Where are all the Michigan students at to defend their school?
Sorry, UVA kid was popping his collar on my lawn and I had to shoo him off.
GT2010 wrote:Michigan was my secret dream school, but I basically convinced myself I wasn’t getting in, and then after getting accepted to/visiting Duke fell in love with Duke instead.
Cheater!
GT2010 wrote: The most important thing for me in making my decision is which school will give me the best job prospects upon graduation. I want big law to start, probably doing something with criminal law, but eventually would like to do something else, maybe work in more of a boutique firm, for a DA’s office, raise a family, whatever.
Based on all reliable sources (nlj, vault, etc) Michigan and Duke are basically tied.
GT2010 wrote: I really want to be in DC but ITE I’m open to secondary markets, in which case I would prefer to be in the South.
You can get to DC from Michigan or Duke. Southern markets probably give Duke an edge here, but if you're from the South this probably won't matter much either way.
GT2010 wrote:For the school itself, I would like to be in a relatively non competitive environment, where the students have a fairly good balance of doing school work and having a life/being social (to the extent to which this is possible in law school haha). And I like schools with a strong sense of "community." It’s also really important to me that professors are easily accessible to all students and willing to help them out.
Wash? Probably.
GT2010 wrote:Also, I hate cold weather.
Duke.
GT2010 wrote:and my boyfriend’s in DC.
Well he ain't in Durham and he ain't in Ann Arbor so this doesn't matter.

So Duke might win...based on weather. Really this decision should be made on other factors. After visiting both campuses you should have preferred one over the other based on students/faculty/campus/feel. Go with your gut, either way you're good. If Michigan is still your secret dream school, go there. If you're in love with Duke more now, go there.

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DavidYurman85
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby DavidYurman85 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:58 am

OP - I'm an 00L and I know several attorneys that are practicing in elite biglaw firms in DC - it's not to say that UM isn't also represented - just my ancedotal evidence that Duke grads are around and seemed to have gotten some pretty sweet offers from biglaw firms.

edit: to clarify i'm not an 0L

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Bosque
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby Bosque » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:16 pm

holydonkey wrote:So Duke might win...based on weather. Really this decision should be made on other factors. After visiting both campuses you should have preferred one over the other based on students/faculty/campus/feel. Go with your gut, either way you're good. If Michigan is still your secret dream school, go there. If you're in love with Duke more now, go there.


That is the exact same advice I give everyone. Well done, sir.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:18 pm

Bosque wrote:
holydonkey wrote:So Duke might win...based on weather. Really this decision should be made on other factors. After visiting both campuses you should have preferred one over the other based on students/faculty/campus/feel. Go with your gut, either way you're good. If Michigan is still your secret dream school, go there. If you're in love with Duke more now, go there.


That is the exact same advice I give everyone. Well done, sir.

tamlyric
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby tamlyric » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:27 pm

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Bosque wrote:
holydonkey wrote:So Duke might win...based on weather. Really this decision should be made on other factors. After visiting both campuses you should have preferred one over the other based on students/faculty/campus/feel. Go with your gut, either way you're good. If Michigan is still your secret dream school, go there. If you're in love with Duke more now, go there.


That is the exact same advice I give everyone. Well done, sir.


Well done, indeed.

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Jericwithers
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby Jericwithers » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:37 pm

tamlyric wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:
Bosque wrote:
holydonkey wrote:So Duke might win...based on weather. Really this decision should be made on other factors. After visiting both campuses you should have preferred one over the other based on students/faculty/campus/feel. Go with your gut, either way you're good. If Michigan is still your secret dream school, go there. If you're in love with Duke more now, go there.


That is the exact same advice I give everyone. Well done, sir.


Well done, indeed.

+1 on doing well.

tamlyric
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby tamlyric » Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:46 pm

Jericwithers wrote:+1 on doing well.

:lol:

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holydonkey
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby holydonkey » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:04 pm

Of course, on the other hand...

Michigan is ranked #9 in US news and Duke is #11.
Leiter faculty quality ranks Michigan at #6 and Duke at #9.
Leiter new faculty hires ranks Michigan #9 and Duke #11.
Leiter student quality ranks Michigan #10 and Duke #12.
Princeton Review best job prospects ranks Michigan #3 and Duke outside the top 10.

but they're basically equal in everything else. :wink:

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Jericwithers
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Re: Duke v Michigan, same scholarship offer, would love opinions

Postby Jericwithers » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:09 pm

holydonkey wrote:Of course, on the other hand...

Michigan is ranked #9 in US news and Duke is #11.
Leiter faculty quality ranks Michigan at #6 and Duke at #9.
Leiter new faculty hires ranks Michigan #9 and Duke #11.
Leiter student quality ranks Michigan #10 and Duke #12.
Princeton Review best job prospects ranks Michigan #3 and Duke outside the top 10.

but they're basically equal in everything else. :wink:


Does Michigan have a significantly better chance of getting you into biglaw or clerkships though? When I look at the statistics, which is the logic behind those rankings, Michigan ranks only 2-3% better than Duke (1% for biglaw and something close to that for clerkships). The next step would be looking at where all those people from Michigan and going to work and where the people from Duke are going to work and see which gives you a better chance of working where you would like to.




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