Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Iowa vs Washington & Lee-- PLEASE help

Iowa Law
36
55%
Washington & Lee
29
45%
 
Total votes: 65

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Regionality
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Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:50 am

So I caved and put two deposits down...but it doesn't change the reality that I have to make a decision soon, so I appreciate any feedback you may have!!

Iowa pros: 42k cheaper because I can get in state tuition after first year w/ RA positions. Iowa City is awesome. Great international programs, which is of interest to me. Ranked 26.

Iowa cons: Cold as crap. Less credentialed student body (average GPA and LSATs). Not great for placing me in DC which while isn't a necessity, could become crucial for international law (though Chicago would present many opportunities in International business lawfor sure)

W&L pros: Collegial, friendly, incredibly intelligent student body (higher LSAT and GPA averages than Iowa). Places very well into DC. Warmer weather.

W&L cons: In the middle of f*ing nowhere with no other young person in sight for hours (and the undergrad population is small to boot). 42k more expensive. Ranked 34.


Anyone provide any clarity? Gut reaction? I just wanna hear people's thoughts and votes.

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84Sunbird2000
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby 84Sunbird2000 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:01 pm

I'd vote Iowa, because it's at least as good of a school and it is cheaper. I don't think the students are going to be imbeciles at Iowa and prodigies at W&L. In fact, I doubt you'll notice much difference at all.

International law is a great idea, but it's very difficult to break in to. I don't know which one is really better for Int'l Law, but neither one is a powerhouse.

Really, if DC is where you want to work, W&L is your answer. However, if you only want DC because of possible international business law connections, you are putting all your eggs in one very small and fragile basket.

JOThompson
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby JOThompson » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:06 pm

I'd put collegiality as a pro for Iowa as well.

Anyways, I would pick Iowa if you'd be fine living in the midwest. Iowa grads disperse throughout the region and there's always the possibility you won't find work in Chicago and instead may have to settle for St. Louis, Minneapolis, etc. If you're set on working in D.C., then W&L is the clear winner, even if you're paying an extra ~40k. Even if the town is boring, go there, it's only three years of your life and it may open up special career opportunities in DC.

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webbylu87
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby webbylu87 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:30 pm

Regionality wrote:So I caved and put two deposits down...but it doesn't change the reality that I have to make a decision soon, so I appreciate any feedback you may have!!

Iowa pros: 42k cheaper because I can get in state tuition after first year w/ RA positions. Iowa City is awesome. Great international programs, which is of interest to me. Ranked 26.

Iowa cons: Cold as crap. Less credentialed student body (average GPA and LSATs). Not great for placing me in DC which while isn't a necessity, could become crucial for international law (though Chicago would present many opportunities in International business lawfor sure)

W&L pros: Collegial, friendly, incredibly intelligent student body (higher LSAT and GPA averages than Iowa). Places very well into DC. Warmer weather.

W&L cons: In the middle of f*ing nowhere with no other young person in sight for hours (and the undergrad population is small to boot). 42k more expensive. Ranked 34.


Anyone provide any clarity? Gut reaction? I just wanna hear people's thoughts and votes.


As someone looking at Iowa (and another higher ranked school with a more "credentialed" student body), I feel like the less credentialed student body concern is a moot point and perhaps a foolish one. Yes, you want to be challenged by your classmates but I don't think a lower LSAT range is any indication of Iowa's inability to do that. You, like many Iowa applicants, have been admitted to schools with "more" or "less" credentialed student bodies. Clearly it is believed that you, again like many other Iowa applicants, can compete well in and are deserving of entry into either environment. To insinuate that Iowa students are less intelligent or less likely to promote a productive, scholarly exchange because it has a lower LSAT range would in my opinion be a foolish assumption to make and base a choice of school on.

I agree with the above poster that neither school will get you to the international work you probably want to do. If your heart is set on DC I agree that W&L is the better bet. However, it sounds as though you're pretty flexible. If you don't mind spending a while in the Midwest I would go with the cheaper, higher ranked option and attend Iowa.

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Regionality
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:41 pm

webbylu87 wrote:
Regionality wrote:So I caved and put two deposits down...but it doesn't change the reality that I have to make a decision soon, so I appreciate any feedback you may have!!

Iowa pros: 42k cheaper because I can get in state tuition after first year w/ RA positions. Iowa City is awesome. Great international programs, which is of interest to me. Ranked 26.

Iowa cons: Cold as crap. Less credentialed student body (average GPA and LSATs). Not great for placing me in DC which while isn't a necessity, could become crucial for international law (though Chicago would present many opportunities in International business lawfor sure)

W&L pros: Collegial, friendly, incredibly intelligent student body (higher LSAT and GPA averages than Iowa). Places very well into DC. Warmer weather.

W&L cons: In the middle of f*ing nowhere with no other young person in sight for hours (and the undergrad population is small to boot). 42k more expensive. Ranked 34.


Anyone provide any clarity? Gut reaction? I just wanna hear people's thoughts and votes.


As someone looking at Iowa (and another higher ranked school with a more "credentialed" student body), I feel like the less credentialed student body concern is a moot point and perhaps a foolish one. Yes, you want to be challenged by your classmates but I don't think a lower LSAT range is any indication of Iowa's inability to do that. You, like many Iowa applicants, have been admitted to schools with "more" or "less" credentialed student bodies. Clearly it is believed that you, again like many other Iowa applicants, can compete well in and are deserving of entry into either environment. To insinuate that Iowa students are less intelligent or less likely to promote a productive, scholarly exchange because it has a lower LSAT range would in my opinion be a foolish assumption to make and base a choice of school on.

I agree with the above poster that neither school will get you to the international work you probably want to do. If your heart is set on DC I agree that W&L is the better bet. However, it sounds as though you're pretty flexible. If you don't mind spending a while in the Midwest I would go with the cheaper, higher ranked option and attend Iowa.


Thanks for the post! Referring to the "higher credentialed" student body is referring to whether one should go the the toughest school to get in to that they ACTUALLY get in to. I think I just barely squeezed into W&L and that I was a safe admit for Iowa. I don't actually think that I will experience a less qualified student body (though who knows, it's not impossible...) Both student bodies are incredibly qualified...but maybe a bit more so at W&L (and I don't even know if I care or if it matters...it's certainly worth a discussion). It is also explainable bc Iowa gives preference to residents so they have to expand their GPA and LSAT ranges.

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webbylu87
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby webbylu87 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:59 pm

Regionality wrote:Thanks for the post! Referring to the "higher credentialed" student body is referring to whether one should go the the toughest school to get in to that they ACTUALLY get in to. I think I just barely squeezed into W&L and that I was a safe admit for Iowa. I don't actually think that I will experience a less qualified student body (though who knows, it's not impossible...) Both student bodies are incredibly qualified...but maybe a bit more so at W&L (and I don't even know if I care or if it matters...it's certainly worth a discussion). It is also explainable bc Iowa gives preference to residents so they have to expand their GPA and LSAT ranges.


As far as the assumption that you should attend the school that was toughest for you to get into, this is a piece of advice I have never heard. I have heard that you should attend the highest ranked school you get into (with exceptions, of course). Highest ranked by no means equates to the hardest to get into (although that's generally the trend). I also think there is some danger in equating higher LSATs and GPAs to a better qualified applicant or student body. These are very important factors and are the most objective to base admissions on, but life often gets in the way. It's just much easier for private institutions to ignore outside factors while public universities are bound by things such as residency requirements as you've said. Private institions also often have larger endowments with which to "buy" high scorers.

But if we're operating on your logic that the LSAT and GPA is somewhat of an accurate predictor of academic ability, would it not make slightly more sense to attend a school where you are already above the median as opposed to one where you're below it if the career prospects at each school are similar in their respective regions? I'm not advocating this as a deciding factor, just merely stating that this view according to your logic makes more sense to me especially considering Iowa is ranked higher, is in a more desirable atmosphere, and costs less. Feel free to say otherwise though.

With that said, I still stand by my previous opinion that if you really want DC, W&L is the superior choice.

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Regionality
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Thu May 06, 2010 6:49 pm

Bump...still need more votes and opinions!

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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby daddymike » Thu May 06, 2010 11:56 pm

FWIW, I was facing a similar choice a year ago and ended up taking Iowa. I am also trying to break into international law, and while I would love to work in DC, I did a little bit of homework and noticed that Iowa had some strong faculty in that department. Also, I liked the fact that Iowa's journals (including law review) were a write-on application procedure, rather than a "by invitation only to those with a GPA above x.yz". I liked that because I wasn't sure how my first year would turn out. I was also amazed at the percentage of students that actually got on journals.. a lot. Between Iowa Law Review; the Journal for Gender, Race, and Justice; Journal for Corporation Law; and the Journal of Transnational Law and Contemporary Problems, there seems to be a ton of opportunities for anyone who is seriously committed about getting a few notes published, and even an article published (outside of maybe law review...).

Another thing that drew me to Iowa was the night life. I heard it was pretty good and it did not disappoint when I got here. It's true that the weather is BRUTAL in the winter, but the summer is quite nice and starts EARLY. It's like spring and fall don't even happen. Kinda like a switch that gets flicked on in April, and then gets turned off in October. The coldest months are Dec, Jan, Feb. I won't lie... these three months are brutal in terms of sheer cold. Very little snow, however.

Also, Iowa's legal clinic was appealing. It allows for any student with 3 or more semesters under their belt to represent clients in state court while earning class credit. This is limited to 15 credit hours, but you can work on cases that range from Domestic Violence to cases involving Immigration Law. I felt like Iowa would give me a better experience, so that I would only have 2 years worth of full-time class work, while spending the 3rd year being on the editing/executive board of a journal, getting work experience with the legal clinic, and maybe take a course or two to patch up the 84 credits required for graduation. Also, keep in mind that if you get on the board of one of the journals then this counts as an RA job and you won't have to worry about keeping a separate RA gig for 3rd year.


Hope this helps!

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Regionality
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Fri May 07, 2010 12:07 am

daddymike wrote:\


Hope this helps!


YES! It does a lot. This is along the lines of what I'm thinking as well. W&L is amazing, but my life in lexington would be unbelievably boring and narrow in scope, both in terms of its social life, clinics, and night life/food. While much of international legal work happens in DC (especially the politically oriented work), there is a ton of international business work in Chicago and some in other midwestern cities.

I didn't know about a journals counting for RA positions...have you experienced this first hand? I love that being an RA gets you in-state tuition...I don't love that I would have to force myself to work 10 hrs/wk for my last two years. Its not that I don't think I'd enjoy it or that it wouldn't be good experience...I just don't like that idea of it being mandatory to get the hefty discount (though it would be non-negotiable when 30k is at stake)

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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby daddymike » Fri May 07, 2010 1:37 am

Hahah, glad I could help!

Keep in mind though that journal positions counting as a research assistant is ONLY for third year, and ONLY if you get on exec/editing board. I just want to clarify this for you or anyone else who is reading this. So, basically, 2nd year would still consist of journal (as a mere student writer), RA position, and classwork on top of that.

The consolation here is that, unlike 1st year where you will be forced to take 30 credits, 2nd year can be shaven down to as little as 20, and you can fill in some credits over summer or inter-session, or moot court or trial advocacy over your second year. Journal also counts for 1 credit per semester.

So, basically, this could be your schedule:

First Year: Fucked... 30 HARD-ASS CREDITS. (This will apply to any school you go to...)
Second Year: (3 classes/semester = 18 credits) + (1 seminar/semester = 8 credits) + (Journal = 2 credits[1 per semester]) + (Summer school or Internship = 3-6 credits) = 31-34 credits.
Third Year: (1 week Inter-session class in August, 1 week before classes start = 1 credit) + (Legal Clinic = 15 credits) + (1 class/semester = 6 credits) + (Journal = 2 credits) = 24 credits

Total: 85-88... which is over what you actually need to graduate, but you get the point.


One other thing to keep in mind, and that a lot of people overlook about Iowa is that medical insurance drops SIGNIFICANTLY when you get an RA position. So, not only do you get in-state tuition, but you also receive approximately 65% OFF of out of your out-of-state insurance bill. THIS ALSO GOES FOR YOUR DEPENDENTS, if any. So, let's say you pay an average of $4000/yr. for medical as an out of stater, that will switch to about $1500 as an in-stater. You will want to call the health services office at the university for exact numbers, but that is a pretty good estimate...

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Regionality
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Fri May 07, 2010 2:09 am

the poll is tied at 14-14!

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Regionality
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Tue May 11, 2010 5:19 pm

for those voting, can you explain your reasoning?

krj02004
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby krj02004 » Tue May 11, 2010 7:38 pm

daddymike wrote:FWIW, I was facing a similar choice a year ago and ended up taking Iowa. I am also trying to break into international law, and while I would love to work in DC, I did a little bit of homework and noticed that Iowa had some strong faculty in that department. Also, I liked the fact that Iowa's journals (including law review) were a write-on application procedure, rather than a "by invitation only to those with a GPA above x.yz". I liked that because I wasn't sure how my first year would turn out. I was also amazed at the percentage of students that actually got on journals.. a lot. Between Iowa Law Review; the Journal for Gender, Race, and Justice; Journal for Corporation Law; and the Journal of Transnational Law and Contemporary Problems, there seems to be a ton of opportunities for anyone who is seriously committed about getting a few notes published, and even an article published (outside of maybe law review...).

Another thing that drew me to Iowa was the night life. I heard it was pretty good and it did not disappoint when I got here. It's true that the weather is BRUTAL in the winter, but the summer is quite nice and starts EARLY. It's like spring and fall don't even happen. Kinda like a switch that gets flicked on in April, and then gets turned off in October. The coldest months are Dec, Jan, Feb. I won't lie... these three months are brutal in terms of sheer cold. Very little snow, however.

Also, Iowa's legal clinic was appealing. It allows for any student with 3 or more semesters under their belt to represent clients in state court while earning class credit. This is limited to 15 credit hours, but you can work on cases that range from Domestic Violence to cases involving Immigration Law. I felt like Iowa would give me a better experience, so that I would only have 2 years worth of full-time class work, while spending the 3rd year being on the editing/executive board of a journal, getting work experience with the legal clinic, and maybe take a course or two to patch up the 84 credits required for graduation. Also, keep in mind that if you get on the board of one of the journals then this counts as an RA job and you won't have to worry about keeping a separate RA gig for 3rd year.


Hope this helps!


I was just accepted at Iowa but still waiting for my financial aid package (I know I'm going to get some type of schoalrship money though). THis really good information to know! I might PM you later to ask some more questions about Iowa if you don't mind... :)

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Regionality
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Tue May 11, 2010 7:41 pm

krj02004 wrote:
daddymike wrote:FWIW, I was facing a similar choice a year ago and ended up taking Iowa. I am also trying to break into international law, and while I would love to work in DC, I did a little bit of homework and noticed that Iowa had some strong faculty in that department. Also, I liked the fact that Iowa's journals (including law review) were a write-on application procedure, rather than a "by invitation only to those with a GPA above x.yz". I liked that because I wasn't sure how my first year would turn out. I was also amazed at the percentage of students that actually got on journals.. a lot. Between Iowa Law Review; the Journal for Gender, Race, and Justice; Journal for Corporation Law; and the Journal of Transnational Law and Contemporary Problems, there seems to be a ton of opportunities for anyone who is seriously committed about getting a few notes published, and even an article published (outside of maybe law review...).

Another thing that drew me to Iowa was the night life. I heard it was pretty good and it did not disappoint when I got here. It's true that the weather is BRUTAL in the winter, but the summer is quite nice and starts EARLY. It's like spring and fall don't even happen. Kinda like a switch that gets flicked on in April, and then gets turned off in October. The coldest months are Dec, Jan, Feb. I won't lie... these three months are brutal in terms of sheer cold. Very little snow, however.

Also, Iowa's legal clinic was appealing. It allows for any student with 3 or more semesters under their belt to represent clients in state court while earning class credit. This is limited to 15 credit hours, but you can work on cases that range from Domestic Violence to cases involving Immigration Law. I felt like Iowa would give me a better experience, so that I would only have 2 years worth of full-time class work, while spending the 3rd year being on the editing/executive board of a journal, getting work experience with the legal clinic, and maybe take a course or two to patch up the 84 credits required for graduation. Also, keep in mind that if you get on the board of one of the journals then this counts as an RA job and you won't have to worry about keeping a separate RA gig for 3rd year.


Hope this helps!


I was just accepted at Iowa but still waiting for my financial aid package (I know I'm going to get some type of schoalrship money though). THis really good information to know! I might PM you later to ask some more questions about Iowa if you don't mind... :)


Why do you know you'll get scholly money getting accepted off the waitlist?

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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby krj02004 » Tue May 11, 2010 7:45 pm

This may not be thinking too deeply.. but I would go to Iowa for the simple fact that it's significantly higher ranked and W&L's rankings have been doing a downwards trend since 2008. With W&L, I think you are competing with too many other surrounding schools for placement in DC which are similar to W&L but also higher ranked. William and Mary comes to mind.

I was admitted to W&M (which is ranked 28th), and I know they place better in DC than W&L... but it's still a challenge. Over 50% I believe stay in Virginia.

krj02004
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby krj02004 » Tue May 11, 2010 7:49 pm

Regionality wrote:
krj02004 wrote:
daddymike wrote:FWIW, I was facing a similar choice a year ago and ended up taking Iowa. I am also trying to break into international law, and while I would love to work in DC, I did a little bit of homework and noticed that Iowa had some strong faculty in that department. Also, I liked the fact that Iowa's journals (including law review) were a write-on application procedure, rather than a "by invitation only to those with a GPA above x.yz". I liked that because I wasn't sure how my first year would turn out. I was also amazed at the percentage of students that actually got on journals.. a lot. Between Iowa Law Review; the Journal for Gender, Race, and Justice; Journal for Corporation Law; and the Journal of Transnational Law and Contemporary Problems, there seems to be a ton of opportunities for anyone who is seriously committed about getting a few notes published, and even an article published (outside of maybe law review...).

Another thing that drew me to Iowa was the night life. I heard it was pretty good and it did not disappoint when I got here. It's true that the weather is BRUTAL in the winter, but the summer is quite nice and starts EARLY. It's like spring and fall don't even happen. Kinda like a switch that gets flicked on in April, and then gets turned off in October. The coldest months are Dec, Jan, Feb. I won't lie... these three months are brutal in terms of sheer cold. Very little snow, however.

Also, Iowa's legal clinic was appealing. It allows for any student with 3 or more semesters under their belt to represent clients in state court while earning class credit. This is limited to 15 credit hours, but you can work on cases that range from Domestic Violence to cases involving Immigration Law. I felt like Iowa would give me a better experience, so that I would only have 2 years worth of full-time class work, while spending the 3rd year being on the editing/executive board of a journal, getting work experience with the legal clinic, and maybe take a course or two to patch up the 84 credits required for graduation. Also, keep in mind that if you get on the board of one of the journals then this counts as an RA job and you won't have to worry about keeping a separate RA gig for 3rd year.


Hope this helps!


I was just accepted at Iowa but still waiting for my financial aid package (I know I'm going to get some type of schoalrship money though). THis really good information to know! I might PM you later to ask some more questions about Iowa if you don't mind... :)


Why do you know you'll get scholly money getting accepted off the waitlist?



I was initially waitlisted then admitted within a week. An admissions rep had called and asked if I really would attend Iowa if accepted.... they had doubts since I was living in an urban city on the east coast, had kids, and with my numbers it was obvious I prolly got into higher ranked schools (which I did). I said that Iowa is very appealing ot me... but only with scholarship opportunities. The admissions rep said that wouldn't be a problem. So we shall see.

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby T14_Scholly » Tue May 11, 2010 7:51 pm

daddymike wrote:FWIW, I was facing a similar choice a year ago and ended up taking Iowa. I am also trying to break into international law, and while I would love to work in DC, I did a little bit of homework and noticed that Iowa had some strong faculty in that department. Also, I liked the fact that Iowa's journals (including law review) were a write-on application procedure, rather than a "by invitation only to those with a GPA above x.yz". I liked that because I wasn't sure how my first year would turn out. I was also amazed at the percentage of students that actually got on journals.. a lot. Between Iowa Law Review; the Journal for Gender, Race, and Justice; Journal for Corporation Law; and the Journal of Transnational Law and Contemporary Problems, there seems to be a ton of opportunities for anyone who is seriously committed about getting a few notes published, and even an article published (outside of maybe law review...).

Another thing that drew me to Iowa was the night life. I heard it was pretty good and it did not disappoint when I got here. It's true that the weather is BRUTAL in the winter, but the summer is quite nice and starts EARLY. It's like spring and fall don't even happen. Kinda like a switch that gets flicked on in April, and then gets turned off in October. The coldest months are Dec, Jan, Feb. I won't lie... these three months are brutal in terms of sheer cold. Very little snow, however.

Also, Iowa's legal clinic was appealing. It allows for any student with 3 or more semesters under their belt to represent clients in state court while earning class credit. This is limited to 15 credit hours, but you can work on cases that range from Domestic Violence to cases involving Immigration Law. I felt like Iowa would give me a better experience, so that I would only have 2 years worth of full-time class work, while spending the 3rd year being on the editing/executive board of a journal, getting work experience with the legal clinic, and maybe take a course or two to patch up the 84 credits required for graduation. Also, keep in mind that if you get on the board of one of the journals then this counts as an RA job and you won't have to worry about keeping a separate RA gig for 3rd year.


Hope this helps!


1) W&L's law review isn't grade-on.

2) W&L's third year curriculum consists of practical work experience.

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T14_Scholly
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby T14_Scholly » Tue May 11, 2010 7:52 pm

Fact: no employer cares about the rank difference between Iowa and W&L, especially no employer in DC.

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Regionality
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Tue May 11, 2010 7:59 pm

krj02004 wrote:
Regionality wrote:
krj02004 wrote:
daddymike wrote:FWIW, I was facing a similar choice a year ago and ended up taking Iowa. I am also trying to break into international law, and while I would love to work in DC, I did a little bit of homework and noticed that Iowa had some strong faculty in that department. Also, I liked the fact that Iowa's journals (including law review) were a write-on application procedure, rather than a "by invitation only to those with a GPA above x.yz". I liked that because I wasn't sure how my first year would turn out. I was also amazed at the percentage of students that actually got on journals.. a lot. Between Iowa Law Review; the Journal for Gender, Race, and Justice; Journal for Corporation Law; and the Journal of Transnational Law and Contemporary Problems, there seems to be a ton of opportunities for anyone who is seriously committed about getting a few notes published, and even an article published (outside of maybe law review...).

Another thing that drew me to Iowa was the night life. I heard it was pretty good and it did not disappoint when I got here. It's true that the weather is BRUTAL in the winter, but the summer is quite nice and starts EARLY. It's like spring and fall don't even happen. Kinda like a switch that gets flicked on in April, and then gets turned off in October. The coldest months are Dec, Jan, Feb. I won't lie... these three months are brutal in terms of sheer cold. Very little snow, however.

Also, Iowa's legal clinic was appealing. It allows for any student with 3 or more semesters under their belt to represent clients in state court while earning class credit. This is limited to 15 credit hours, but you can work on cases that range from Domestic Violence to cases involving Immigration Law. I felt like Iowa would give me a better experience, so that I would only have 2 years worth of full-time class work, while spending the 3rd year being on the editing/executive board of a journal, getting work experience with the legal clinic, and maybe take a course or two to patch up the 84 credits required for graduation. Also, keep in mind that if you get on the board of one of the journals then this counts as an RA job and you won't have to worry about keeping a separate RA gig for 3rd year.


Hope this helps!


I was just accepted at Iowa but still waiting for my financial aid package (I know I'm going to get some type of schoalrship money though). THis really good information to know! I might PM you later to ask some more questions about Iowa if you don't mind... :)


Why do you know you'll get scholly money getting accepted off the waitlist?



I was initially waitlisted then admitted within a week. An admissions rep had called and asked if I really would attend Iowa if accepted.... they had doubts since I was living in an urban city on the east coast, had kids, and with my numbers it was obvious I prolly got into higher ranked schools (which I did). I said that Iowa is very appealing ot me... but only with scholarship opportunities. The admissions rep said that wouldn't be a problem. So we shall see.


Nice! What are your numbers?

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Yacht_Party
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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Yacht_Party » Tue May 11, 2010 8:01 pm

84Sunbird2000 wrote:International law is a great idea, but it's very difficult to break in to. I don't know which one is really better for Int'l Law, but neither one is a powerhouse.


This. I think that the sentiment about international law here is that "you should go to HYS" or must get very lucky. Neither is improved drastically by choosing one of these schools over the other.

It depends if your thinking is DC or bust. If nothing else will do, go to W&L. It may be an uphill battle (especially ITE), but it'll probably be an even steeper hill from Iowa. If you're at all content with the Midwest (and perhaps forgoing your international law dream), I think Iowa offers reasonable prospects throughout the region.

I voted Iowa. Personally, I'm averse to choosing a school in an extremely competitive market surrounded by T14 schools, unless I'm considering a T14 myself.

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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Tue May 11, 2010 8:03 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:
daddymike wrote:FWIW, I was facing a similar choice a year ago and ended up taking Iowa. I am also trying to break into international law, and while I would love to work in DC, I did a little bit of homework and noticed that Iowa had some strong faculty in that department. Also, I liked the fact that Iowa's journals (including law review) were a write-on application procedure, rather than a "by invitation only to those with a GPA above x.yz". I liked that because I wasn't sure how my first year would turn out. I was also amazed at the percentage of students that actually got on journals.. a lot. Between Iowa Law Review; the Journal for Gender, Race, and Justice; Journal for Corporation Law; and the Journal of Transnational Law and Contemporary Problems, there seems to be a ton of opportunities for anyone who is seriously committed about getting a few notes published, and even an article published (outside of maybe law review...).

Another thing that drew me to Iowa was the night life. I heard it was pretty good and it did not disappoint when I got here. It's true that the weather is BRUTAL in the winter, but the summer is quite nice and starts EARLY. It's like spring and fall don't even happen. Kinda like a switch that gets flicked on in April, and then gets turned off in October. The coldest months are Dec, Jan, Feb. I won't lie... these three months are brutal in terms of sheer cold. Very little snow, however.

Also, Iowa's legal clinic was appealing. It allows for any student with 3 or more semesters under their belt to represent clients in state court while earning class credit. This is limited to 15 credit hours, but you can work on cases that range from Domestic Violence to cases involving Immigration Law. I felt like Iowa would give me a better experience, so that I would only have 2 years worth of full-time class work, while spending the 3rd year being on the editing/executive board of a journal, getting work experience with the legal clinic, and maybe take a course or two to patch up the 84 credits required for graduation. Also, keep in mind that if you get on the board of one of the journals then this counts as an RA job and you won't have to worry about keeping a separate RA gig for 3rd year.


Hope this helps!


1) W&L's law review isn't grade-on.

2) W&L's third year curriculum consists of practical work experience.


Yes, but their new 3rd year practical work experience is in Lexington...I don't get the sense that it can be terribly broad in nature...their clinics are sorta interesting...

I agree that the rank differences matter little. Both are incredibly strong regional schools...45k in savings does matter at Iowa, and I only have a slight preference for DC over Chicago....BUT assuming I had no regional preference, which of the two schools has better employment prospects overall?

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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Tue May 11, 2010 8:06 pm

Yacht_Party wrote:
84Sunbird2000 wrote:International law is a great idea, but it's very difficult to break in to. I don't know which one is really better for Int'l Law, but neither one is a powerhouse.



I voted Iowa. Personally, I'm averse to choosing a school in an extremely competitive market surrounded by T14 schools, unless I'm considering a T14 myself.


If I went to Iowa I'd want to end up in Chicago...which has NU and UChicago...

Do people think Iowa places better in Chicago than W&L does in DC?

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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Yacht_Party » Tue May 11, 2010 8:36 pm

Remember, T14 grads are going to head to big cities with big legal markets (e.g. Chicago, DC, NYC). You're competing with them wherever you go. Edit: But ideally I'd prefer to be at a strong regional school that doesn't have a high concentration of other, perhaps higher-ranked schools competing with it.

I can't answer whether Iowa places "better" in Chicago than W&L in DC (hopefully someone else can chime in...it may be difficult to discern, depending on what jobs/salary you're looking at. Remember, international law seems to be a pipe dream, so discussing "placement" there is kind of futile). I would assume that W&L places a larger percentage of its grads in DC than Iowa does in Chicago. However, it seems that Iowa also sends grads to other, medium-sized cities such as Kansas City, St. Louis, Minneapolis, etc. W&L, from what I gather, is going to put you in DC or somewhere in Virginia.

W&L: DC/stay relatively more local

Iowa: lower chance at Chicago/stay relatively more regional

Someone correct me if I'm way off-base.
Last edited by Yacht_Party on Tue May 11, 2010 8:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Regionality » Tue May 11, 2010 8:39 pm

Yacht_Party wrote:Remember, T14 grads are going to head to big cities with big legal markets (e.g. Chicago, DC, NYC). You're competing with them wherever you go.

I can't answer whether Iowa places "better" in Chicago than W&L in DC (hopefully someone else can chime in...it may be difficult to discern, depending on what jobs/salary you're looking at. Remember, international law seems to be a pipe dream, so discussing "placement" there is kind of futile). I would assume that W&L places a larger percentage of its grads in DC than Iowa does in Chicago. However, it seems that Iowa also sends grads to other, medium-sized cities such as Kansas City, St. Louis, Minneapolis, etc. W&L, from what I gather, is going to put you in DC or somewhere in Virginia.

W&L: DC/stay local

Iowa: lower chance at Chicago/stay regional

Someone correct me if I'm way off-base.


I think you are largely correct, with the exception being that a decent chunk of W&L grads are going to NYC these days...but yes I don't want to end up in the bustling metropolis of Roanoke or Richmond if I can't place in DC or NYC...

But I would be interested to hear from people whether they think Iowa for Chicago is better than W&L for DC, or vice versa...

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Re: Deposits down at two places-- HELP: Iowa vs Washington & Lee

Postby Yacht_Party » Tue May 11, 2010 8:50 pm

Here: http://law.wlu.edu/deptimages/Career%20 ... %20WEB.pdf

Obviously an elementary knowledge of statistics should be applied. 11 are reported in DC out of a class of 138 (I think I read that correctly). I don't think they necessarily have to be law-related jobs either (see Employment Types).




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