is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

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DoubleChecks
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:22 pm

fortissimo wrote:No...first off, dental school isn't that hard to get into. You take some weird dental entrance exam and the admissions requirements are much lower than that of medical school. I don't think getting into a decent medical school is THAT hard to get into, with a 3.7 GPA and 31 MCAT or higher. A 31 MCAT or higher is like getting a 1400+ equivalent on the SAT...it's good, but not that good. The MCAT is only 4 hours long right now too. (It used to be 8 or something like that.) A 3.7 is hard to get depending on what you major you are. You can major in history though and just take the pre-med prereqs and manage a 3.7, and biology isn't that hard. Chem, engineering, physics, and math are definitely harder. Just avoid those subjects and do an easy major.


lmfao wtf? 31 MCAT != 1400 on SAT lol. it is harder than that (but prob because i give less credit to the SAT)

now getting into A medical school isnt the toughest shit in the world...but its getting THROUGH medical school and residency thats the real bitch (and you'd have to be pre-med for 4 yrs before that...gross)...though thankfully, rankings mean a lot less for med schools than law schools...prob cuz AMA monitors supply and demand to some extent, unlike the stupid ABA!

and if you major history and take pre-reqs, med schools notice so you'd just be gimping yourself. is it possible to still get in? yeah, but i mean obviously it is harder (kinda makes up for the 'easier' 3.7 in a way).

while the dental exam (DATs) is easier than the MCAT, the number of dental spots open is pretty dang low. for example, in a large state like TX, there are around 3 dental schools, each w/ ~80 seats for an incoming class. so competition gets tough there :(

but imo, id choose dentist > doctor ANY day (if money were the main concern) since i truly believe it is the best bang for your buck (easier grad life, better post-grad life, $$$ for < time...all sorts of win...omg im nut checking myself again)

Norwood
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby Norwood » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:28 pm

fortissimo wrote:No...first off, dental school isn't that hard to get into. You take some weird dental entrance exam and the admissions requirements are much lower than that of medical school. I don't think getting into a decent medical school is THAT hard to get into, with a 3.7 GPA and 31 MCAT or higher. A 31 MCAT or higher is like getting a 1400+ equivalent on the SAT...it's good, but not that good. The MCAT is only 4 hours long right now too. (It used to be 8 or something like that.) A 3.7 is hard to get depending on what you major you are. You can major in history though and just take the pre-med prereqs and manage a 3.7, and biology isn't that hard. Chem, engineering, physics, and math are definitely harder. Just avoid those subjects and do an easy major.


Unlike what you're use to here in TLS, numbers is not everything when applying to these health professions. they are looking for brilliant and well rounded individuals and not numbers to help their medians. I've seen the applications and secondary applications for dental school and they dwarf any law app. Then on top of that you have to interview. Numbers are just the initial screening process to see who even qualifies for a secondary application and interview.

fortissimo
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby fortissimo » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:29 pm

Norwood wrote:
fortissimo wrote:No...first off, dental school isn't that hard to get into. You take some weird dental entrance exam and the admissions requirements are much lower than that of medical school. I don't think getting into a decent medical school is THAT hard to get into, with a 3.7 GPA and 31 MCAT or higher. A 31 MCAT or higher is like getting a 1400+ equivalent on the SAT...it's good, but not that good. The MCAT is only 4 hours long right now too. (It used to be 8 or something like that.) A 3.7 is hard to get depending on what you major you are. You can major in history though and just take the pre-med prereqs and manage a 3.7, and biology isn't that hard. Chem, engineering, physics, and math are definitely harder. Just avoid those subjects and do an easy major.


Unlike what you're use to here in TLS, numbers is not everything when applying to these health professions. they are looking for brilliant and well rounded individuals and not numbers to help their medians. I've seen the applications and secondary applications for dental school and they dwarf any law app. Then on top of that you have to interview. Numbers are just the initial screening process to see who even qualifies for a secondary application and interview.


Right, volunteering at a clinic or working for dentists during the summer is very hard. I've seen the numbers for top dental schools.... a 3.4 average? IN BIOLOGY???

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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby fortissimo » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:31 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
fortissimo wrote:No...first off, dental school isn't that hard to get into. You take some weird dental entrance exam and the admissions requirements are much lower than that of medical school. I don't think getting into a decent medical school is THAT hard to get into, with a 3.7 GPA and 31 MCAT or higher. A 31 MCAT or higher is like getting a 1400+ equivalent on the SAT...it's good, but not that good. The MCAT is only 4 hours long right now too. (It used to be 8 or something like that.) A 3.7 is hard to get depending on what you major you are. You can major in history though and just take the pre-med prereqs and manage a 3.7, and biology isn't that hard. Chem, engineering, physics, and math are definitely harder. Just avoid those subjects and do an easy major.


lmfao wtf? 31 MCAT != 1400 on SAT lol. it is harder than that (but prob because i give less credit to the SAT)

now getting into A medical school isnt the toughest shit in the world...but its getting THROUGH medical school and residency thats the real bitch (and you'd have to be pre-med for 4 yrs before that...gross)...though thankfully, rankings mean a lot less for med schools than law schools...prob cuz AMA monitors supply and demand to some extent, unlike the stupid ABA!

and if you major history and take pre-reqs, med schools notice so you'd just be gimping yourself. is it possible to still get in? yeah, but i mean obviously it is harder (kinda makes up for the 'easier' 3.7 in a way).

while the dental exam (DATs) is easier than the MCAT, the number of dental spots open is pretty dang low. for example, in a large state like TX, there are around 3 dental schools, each w/ ~80 seats for an incoming class. so competition gets tough there :(

but imo, id choose dentist > doctor ANY day (if money were the main concern) since i truly believe it is the best bang for your buck (easier grad life, better post-grad life, $$$ for < time...all sorts of win...omg im nut checking myself again)


No, I agree. Med school is BY FAR the worst/hardest grad program to get through and you put in the longest hours...except for one big bonus. You are gunning for a "C". You are not curved against anyone. I still wouldn't want to put in the hours studying like they do though. My friends who are in med school study probably 10+ hours a day, and from what I have heard, "C" becomes the default grade for most people.

But I'm saying people overexaggerate how hard it is to get into "A" medical school, unless you are a complete science noob. As for dental school, the admissions requirements for dental school are noticeably easier than med school though. If I were to choose a path in the sciences, I'd probably pursue dental school though. Less competition, easier to get in, better pay, better hours.

Still, law school, in the aggregate, is easier to get into than both dental and medical schools, but if we're comparing top law schools to crap med/dental schools, then no.

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JCougar
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby JCougar » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:43 pm

Gatriel wrote:
berkeleykel06 wrote:
Gatriel wrote:With ObamaCare, why would you want to go into medicine? With all the litigation its going to bring, I would assert that there will be plenty of money in law, especially medical law in the near future.


:roll:


Yeup . . . because everyone is a fan of ObamaCare, no one sees things differently. :shock:

When Medicare goes bankrupt, you bet I'll be filing suit. I will have been paying into it for 21 years at that point (assuming it does go tits up in 2024, like most say it will).

Think about all the future implications of ObamaCare, especially on the wealthy, who have money to throw at us future attorneys, and probably just want a fat check from Uncle Sam to prove a point.


Your information is just plain wrong. Medicare is not going bankrupt anytime soon. Because of demographic changes, it needs to be restructured pretty soon, but Medicare is a great program that has been running solidly multiple generations. Medicare has still built up a large chunk of money, and last I checked, was solid for at least another 40 years before payouts would very gradually decline after 2050 if nothing about the program changed over the next 40 years. The recession has sped up that timeline, but there's still nothing close to impending doom regarding the Medicare program.

If you take a vacation from the constant stream of conservative propaganda and misinformation fed to our populice about this program, you'd understand that.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:59 pm

fortissimo wrote:
Norwood wrote:
fortissimo wrote:No...first off, dental school isn't that hard to get into. You take some weird dental entrance exam and the admissions requirements are much lower than that of medical school. I don't think getting into a decent medical school is THAT hard to get into, with a 3.7 GPA and 31 MCAT or higher. A 31 MCAT or higher is like getting a 1400+ equivalent on the SAT...it's good, but not that good. The MCAT is only 4 hours long right now too. (It used to be 8 or something like that.) A 3.7 is hard to get depending on what you major you are. You can major in history though and just take the pre-med prereqs and manage a 3.7, and biology isn't that hard. Chem, engineering, physics, and math are definitely harder. Just avoid those subjects and do an easy major.


Unlike what you're use to here in TLS, numbers is not everything when applying to these health professions. they are looking for brilliant and well rounded individuals and not numbers to help their medians. I've seen the applications and secondary applications for dental school and they dwarf any law app. Then on top of that you have to interview. Numbers are just the initial screening process to see who even qualifies for a secondary application and interview.


Right, volunteering at a clinic or working for dentists during the summer is very hard. I've seen the numbers for top dental schools.... a 3.4 average? IN BIOLOGY???


mm one thing w/ med schools though is they do expect/play up softs more. you even need more LORs. the interview bit is true as well; it is a much more exhaustive procedure than law school where, at best, you may get a rare invite out or a 5 min phone call haha.

and i wouldnt say the soft work is 'hard'...but most softs arent lol. its getting it and doing it all thats tougher (i.e. certain programs that are tough to get into but look good). but you're right about the top law school vs. crap dental/med school bit. although a crap law school loses to a crap dental/med school any day of the week, so when 'people' say med schools are tough, maybe they mean it in that relative sense (i.e. if they are aiming for a lower ranked law school, by comparison, the lower ranked med school is much tougher)

i also agree w/ most of your response to my post. dental is the best bang for the buck! lol

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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby Non-Lawyer Lawyer » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:10 pm

In terms of work-life balance (while still bringing home an extremely fat paycheck), medical/dental school is by far >>>> than any law school out there, even the much vaunted Yale. Furthermore, dentists and doctors are held in much higher regard than lawyers. Within the doctors vs. dentists debate I have found, strangely enough, that dentistry seems to be viewed as a bit more prestigious to lay people than doctors (provided you're not some micro-neurosurgeon or something). Additionally, you get the added benefit of knowing you can help relieve people's pain and suffering and do some good in society as a doctor/dentist, versus being part of a self-perpetuating profession that contributes nothing to society (we all know this is true even if we don't admit it to ourselves) and serves only to make life more complicated for the average American.


I say all of this as both the son of a dentist and a doctor, and as someone who has worked as an attorney for the federal government and in a medium-sized law firm in a big city (medium being between 25-50 attorneys). My parents never worked weekends, were always home by 6pm, never had to miss a basketball or soccer game that my brother and I played in when we were kids because of work, and suffered from none of the job-related misery and burnout that you hear about so often in the case of attorneys.

As far as medical vs. dental, I think dental would have to be the way to go from what I have observed growing up. That being said, dental school is EXTREMELY expensive (all the 0Ls who bitch about law school debt should thank their lucky stars they are not dental students) and is apparently very difficult, even more so than med school, at least according to the parentals. Admissions for dental school are also stringent; my father sits on the admissions committee at the dental school where he is a part-time professor, and says the number extremely qualified applicants they have to turn away is astounding. There is also very stiff competition, at least at his school, from foreign students coming to study.
Last edited by Non-Lawyer Lawyer on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rory1987
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby Rory1987 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:14 pm

Any graduate of any (even the shittiest of the shittiest) MD or DO schools is all but guaranteed a six figure salary after they're done with their residency. This country is short of 40,000 doctors - we have 40,000 too many lawyers. Doctors are also universally respected, for their intelligence, wealth and career. So yeah, I could see this. Right now, ITE, I'd definitely take ANY and EVERY MD/DO school (even some Carribean shit place) over any law school not HYS. That's my answer.

Plus, if you hate what you do in medicine, you can always go back and choose another specialty. You hate being an er doc, then go do a psychiatry residency.

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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby Rory1987 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:18 pm

Non-Lawyer Lawyer wrote:In terms of work-life balance (while still bringing home an extremely fat paycheck), medical/dental school is by far >>>> than any law school out there, even the much vaunted Yale.

I say this as both the son of a dentist and a doctor, and as someone who has worked in a medium-sized law firm in a big city (medium being between 25-50 attorneys). My parents never worked weekends, were always home by 6pm, never had to miss a basketball or soccer game that my brother and I played in when we were kids because of work, and suffered from none of the job-related misery and burnout that you hear about so often in the case of attorneys.

As far as medical vs. dental, I think dental would have to be the way to go from what I have observed growing up. That being said, dental school is EXTREMELY expensive (all the 0Ls who bitch about law school debt should thank their lucky stars they are not dental students) and is apparently very difficult, even more so than med school, at least according to the parentals. Admissions for dental school are also stringent; my father sits on the admissions committee at the dental school where he is a part-time professor, and says the number extremely qualified applicants they have to turn away is astounding. There is also very stiff competition, at least at his school, from foreign students coming to study.


The work-life balance completely depends on what you want to do as a doctor. If you're an er doc or a trauma surgeon, then you'll work nights, weekends, holidays, etc. If you're a dermatologist, well not so much.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:23 pm

this thread is seriously making me want to go into dentistry lol

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DerrickRose
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby DerrickRose » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:26 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:this thread is seriously making me want to go into dentistry lol


Gross.

I'll doc review for 100hrs before I'll stick my hands in someone's mouth for 1.

fortissimo
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby fortissimo » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:27 pm

Rory1987 wrote:Any graduate of any (even the shittiest of the shittiest) MD or DO schools is all but guaranteed a six figure salary after they're done with their residency. This country is short of 40,000 doctors - we have 40,000 too many lawyers. Doctors are also universally respected, for their intelligence, wealth and career. So yeah, I could see this. Right now, ITE, I'd definitely take ANY and EVERY MD/DO school (even some Carribean shit place) over any law school not HYS. That's my answer.


...No. You are not "guaranteed" a six figure salary...there's definitely a spread depending on what type of medicine you practice, where you work, etc. As for dentists, I know dentists who relocated to other states because they couldn't get enough patients to sustain their practice in the state they live in.

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T14_Scholly
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby T14_Scholly » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:31 pm

Gatriel wrote:With ObamaCare, why would you want to go into medicine? With all the litigation its going to bring, I would assert that there will be plenty of money in law, especially medical law in the near future.


After all, the only thing to consider when deciding on medicine vs law is money.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:47 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:
Gatriel wrote:With ObamaCare, why would you want to go into medicine? With all the litigation its going to bring, I would assert that there will be plenty of money in law, especially medical law in the near future.


After all, the only thing to consider when deciding on medicine vs law is money.


+1

oh no wait, you were being sarcastic

bigben
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby bigben » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:06 pm

Case2L wrote:No offense the OP, but this is a stupid thread. Law and medicine are drastically different professions. If you really want to be a doctor, then you're better off at Ross University or some no-name osteopathic school than Yale Law. Conversely, if you really want to be a lawyer and have no interest in medicine, a TTT law school will get you where you want to be better than Case Medical School (yeah, I threw in Case Med) or any med school for that matter.


They were probably talking about in terms of $/per hour and quality of life.

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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby bigben » Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:06 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
bigben wrote:They strictly limit the supply of dentists and they seem to avoid competing on price. Seems like most of them make close to 200k and work 30 hour weeks. I don't think you could find a single lawyer in the whole country with a life like that.


ugh stop making me constantly nut checking myself for not going down the dentist path


srsly

BobSacamano
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby BobSacamano » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:47 pm

Dentistry is great and all until you, you know, have to perform dentistry.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:53 pm

I wanted to a be dentist for awhile when I was little.. then I actually started looking at people's teeth. No thanks.

Tofu
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby Tofu » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:10 pm

Non-Lawyer Lawyer wrote:Within the doctors vs. dentists debate I have found, strangely enough, that dentistry seems to be viewed as a bit more prestigious to lay people than doctors (provided you're not some micro-neurosurgeon or something).


hmm.. it's been doctor>lawyer>dentist or doctor=lawyer > dentist for me

Non-Lawyer Lawyer wrote:That being said, dental school is EXTREMELY expensive (all the 0Ls who bitch about law school debt should thank their lucky stars they are not dental students)


depends on what school (my roommate's trying to go for ucla or ucsf dental, since it's apparently a lot cheaper than other schools, such as columbia or upenn)

BobSacamano wrote:Dentistry is great and all until you, you know, have to perform dentistry.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...


yes

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quickquestionthanks
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby quickquestionthanks » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:34 pm

No dentists are going to be members of the Trilateral Committee.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:40 pm

Rory1987 wrote:The work-life balance completely depends on what you want to do as a doctor. If you're an er doc or a trauma surgeon, then you'll work nights, weekends, holidays, etc. If you're a dermatologist, well not so much.


Actually ER doctors work shifts, so they aren't on call (and some do work days). So as an emergency medicine physician, you work only certain hours. Other physicians are on call, which means the time can be a lot more varied and intrusive.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:42 pm

If I didn't feel like I was in such a rush to get moving on a career, I would seriously be considering moving back in with my parents, getting a part-time job, and going back to do pre-req's for dentistry...

...that and because hard sciences have never been my strong suit...

1L2b
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Re: is that true? any Medical or dental school >>>>>>>>>>>> Yale

Postby 1L2b » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:34 am

agreed. decide what you want to do first, then just work hard for it. even if you don't make it to the top, at least you know you tried. conversely, go into something you really don't like and be miserable for the rest of your working years even if you're making bank.
there's a lot to be said for job satisfaction and i don't think it's all about money but not everyone feels that way so again...figure out what's right for you and pursue it with passion. don't settle.




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