Transfer strategy UNM and NIU Forum

[SummerBrees]

I have been accepted to The University of New Mexico (alma mater) and to Northern Illinois University. After a successful 1st year, I intend to transfer into a higher ranked law school and complete my JD. I am familiar with the transfer requirements of the schools I am interested in attending and I am comfortable with pursuing this route (vs. sitting out another year and retaking LSAT). I want to know which school I should attend for the first year. Here are some important factors in my decision:

1. $$$ is about the same
2. I am about 87% sure that I want to work in Chicago area upon graduation
3. Chicago job market vs. NM job market
4. UNM is a second tier school #77 or so. NIU is not even ranked (I suppose that says something about quality, ect)
5. Both schools have shitty median starting salaries, so staying at either one for 3 years is not an option!
6. Do I stand a better chance of acceptance as a transfer applicant to a Chicago area school as an Illinois resident or out of state? What is the reputation of NIU? Will the other schools frown upon it? ect.

Please get back to me ASAP I have to send my seat deposit to UNM in a day or two.

[Lawl Shcool]

This seems to be a bad idea all around. If you really want to do this you should find a school that will give you a full-ride for 1L. However, NIU will transfer better in the Chicago area than NM. Based only on anecdotal evidence, it seems like schools typically take (favor) transfers from the same market.

[CanadianWolf]

Your 5 page personal statement for UNM must have been interesting.
Did you apply to any other law schools?
My best suggestion is to attend the Univ. of New Mexico School of Law & experience law school before committing to a major move & significant expenses for an unranked law school.

[D. H2Oman]

I predict that this is going to end badly for you.

[SummerBrees]

This seems to be a bad idea all around. If you really want to do this you should find a school that will give you a full-ride for 1L. However, NIU will transfer better in the Chicago area than NM. Based only on anecdotal evidence, it seems like schools typically take (favor) transfers from the same market.

It is what it is. Of course this isn't the ideal way but it is what I have to do. Thanks for the input

[SummerBrees]

I predict that this is going to end badly for you.

What's with the negativity? If you don't have anything constructive to say then don't respond. Or at the very least explain why you feel it is going to end badly.

[Tall]

NIU is my undergrad alma mater. I know the law school pretty well. The school does not do extremely well in Chicago. You may not get into Chicago right away, however, after establishing yourself in the suburbs or at smaller firms you may be able to move into the city. I think I am correct in saying that you would stand a much better chance in transferring to NIU being an Illinois resident as NIU is a state school.
Overall, being on NIU campus and seeing the law students, knowing and talking to the admissions director, ect. I would not mind going to NIU. You will get a good legal education if you put in the time and effort. Every school will have good faculty and resources, some better than others, and NIU is no exception.
Personally, I would go to New Mexico. It seems like a much better school. You should be prepared to stay 3 years at any school you attend. If you are unhappy with your options, retake the LSAT next year and apply to some Chicago schools like DePaul, Loyola, Kent, and ideally UIllinois (places awesome in Chicago).
Best of luck.

[09042014]

I predict that this is going to end badly for you.

What's with the negativity? If you don't have anything constructive to say then don't respond. Or at the very least explain why you feel it is going to end badly.

Because you probably won't have the grades to transfer.

[20160810]

Ladies and gentlemen, proof of the old saw that 100% of 0Ls plan to finish 1L in the top 10% of their classes.

[SummerBrees]

Your 5 page personal statement for UNM must have been interesting.
Did you apply to any other law schools?
My best suggestion is to attend the Univ. of New Mexico School of Law & experience law school before committing to a major move & significant expenses for an unranked law school.

lol@ the 5 page personal statement! I applied to two other schools but I really had no intention of going to either one. I really appreciate your opinion.

Ladies and gentlemen, proof of the old saw that 100% of 0Ls plan to finish 1L in the top 10% of their classes.

Very true. I am fully aware of how difficult law school is...yaddah yaddah yaddah. I have friends who are in law school and I see first hand what makes the 1st year so hard. Lack of familiarity with the terminology and concepts seems to be the hardest part (it takes 6 hours to read something because you spend half of your time looking up definitions). That being said, this summer I will begin reading the casebooks for the first semester required classes and I familiarizing myself with the terminology. The rest is just hard work. I have been working hard my entire life, so law school won't be a shock to my system, unlike many of the "privileged" students I know. Nothing in my life has been easy, so why should I expect this to be? And if you are wondering why I didn't apply this philosophy to my undergrad (so I wouldn't even be in this position), let's just say...young, dumb and full of cum!

[SummerBrees]

NIU is my undergrad alma mater. I know the law school pretty well. The school does not do extremely well in Chicago. You may not get into Chicago right away, however, after establishing yourself in the suburbs or at smaller firms you may be able to move into the city. I think I am correct in saying that you would stand a much better chance in transferring to NIU being an Illinois resident as NIU is a state school.
Overall, being on NIU campus and seeing the law students, knowing and talking to the admissions director, ect. I would not mind going to NIU. You will get a good legal education if you put in the time and effort. Every school will have good faculty and resources, some better than others, and NIU is no exception.
Personally, I would go to New Mexico. It seems like a much better school. You should be prepared to stay 3 years at any school you attend. If you are unhappy with your options, retake the LSAT next year and apply to some Chicago schools like DePaul, Loyola, Kent, and ideally UIllinois (places awesome in Chicago).
Best of luck.

Thank you.

[09042014]

Your 5 page personal statement for UNM must have been interesting.
Did you apply to any other law schools?
My best suggestion is to attend the Univ. of New Mexico School of Law & experience law school before committing to a major move & significant expenses for an unranked law school.

lol@ the 5 page personal statement! I applied to two other schools but I really had no intention of going to either one. I really appreciate your opinion.

Ladies and gentlemen, proof of the old saw that 100% of 0Ls plan to finish 1L in the top 10% of their classes.

Very true. I am fully aware of how difficult law school is...yaddah yaddah yaddah. I have friends who are in law school and I see first hand what makes the 1st year so hard. Lack of familiarity with the terminology and concepts seems to be the hardest part (it takes 6 hours to read something because you spend half of your time looking up definitions). That being said, this summer I will begin reading the casebooks for the first semester required classes and I familiarizing myself with the terminology. The rest is just hard work. I have been working hard my entire life, so law school won't be a shock to my system, unlike many of the "privileged" students I know. Nothing in my life has been easy, so why should I expect this to be? And if you are wondering why I didn't apply this philosophy to my undergrad (so I wouldn't even be in this position), let's just say...young, dumb and full of cum!

So why not work hard at the LSAT and go to a good school right off the bat?

[SaintClarence27]

Okay, I have a couple questions:

How highly ranked of a school do you think you're looking to transfer into? Do you have any specific targets?

I assume you applied to Chicago-Kent and DePaul? If you're looking to work in Chicago, those should be your targets (it's not likely you'll be able to transfer into UIllinois from either of the school's you're considering attending for 1L).

And, that said, it will take some serious gunning, hard work, intelligence AND some luck to be successful with this plan. That's why people are against it. What you want is not the likely outcome, and even if it were, there are some serious consequences. Do your research. You'll need to know your target schools.

http://www.lsac.org/applying/transferri ... chools.asp

There are some good points on that page. If you can't make law review, connections, register for the best classes, etc., at your new school, you will be in a significantly WORSE position than if you had stayed at UNM, for instance, and made law review there. You're also assuming that you will be smarter and work harder than a lot of people who are IN LAW SCHOOL. I'm talking about a lot of Type As here,and you're making a pretty big assumption, IMO. They will work just as long and hard as you, and it's entirely possible that they're smarter, too. You're not the only one who's doing prep work prior to starting, either.

If you have your heart set on it, however, here's a pretty good how to site:

http://www.policydiary.com/2010/02/thin ... hools.html

[SummerBrees]

Okay, I have a couple questions:

How highly ranked of a school do you think you're looking to transfer into? Do you have any specific targets?

I assume you applied to Chicago-Kent and DePaul? If you're looking to work in Chicago, those should be your targets (it's not likely you'll be able to transfer into UIllinois from either of the school's you're considering attending for 1L).

And, that said, it will take some serious gunning, hard work, intelligence AND some luck to be successful with this plan. That's why people are against it. What you want is not the likely outcome, and even if it were, there are some serious consequences. Do your research. You'll need to know your target schools.

http://www.lsac.org/applying/transferri ... chools.asp

There are some good points on that page. If you can't make law review, connections, register for the best classes, etc., at your new school, you will be in a significantly WORSE position than if you had stayed at UNM, for instance, and made law review there. You're also assuming that you will be smarter and work harder than a lot of people who are IN LAW SCHOOL. I'm talking about a lot of Type As here,and you're making a pretty big assumption, IMO. They will work just as long and hard as you, and it's entirely possible that they're smarter, too. You're not the only one who's doing prep work prior to starting, either.

If you have your heart set on it, however, here's a pretty good how to site:

http://www.policydiary.com/2010/02/thin ... hools.html

See that's what I am talking about! Thank you so much. This is not my first choice, it's my last choice! I know this isn't the way to go about things but this IS what I am going to do. I really appreciate your input and the information.

You mentioned connections, law review ect., I totally understand but I am going to have to bite the bullet eventually. I could stay at UNM for the 3 years and then try to enter the job market in Chicago, it seems I am just as screwed. Roll the dice with transferring or after graduation???

[rayiner]

5. Both schools have shitty median starting salaries, so staying at either one for 3 years is not an option!

Yet it is the most likely outcome...

[megaTTTron]

Ladies and gentlemen, proof of the old saw that 100% of 0Ls plan to finish 1L in the top 10% of their classes.

+1.

So why not work hard at the LSAT and go to a good school right off the bat?

+1000.


I truly feel bad for OP, but I know that it will be impossible to convince him/her otherwise (I remember feeling the same way as a 0L). I would say go to NIU just because you're fairly confident you want to work there, but I cringe at even giving this advice.

The fact of the matter is that regardless of how hard you think you're going to work, hard work does not = top 10%.
And transferring is a crap shoot anyway.

[SummerBrees]

Ladies and gentlemen, proof of the old saw that 100% of 0Ls plan to finish 1L in the top 10% of their classes.

+1.

So why not work hard at the LSAT and go to a good school right off the bat?

+1000.


I truly feel bad for OP, but I know that it will be impossible to convince him/her otherwise (I remember feeling the same way as a 0L). I would say go to NIU just because you're fairly confident you want to work there, but I cringe at even giving this advice.

The fact of the matter is that regardless of how hard you think you're going to work, hard work does not = top 10%.
And transferring is a crap shoot anyway.[/quote

Retaking the LSAT is not an option. Hard work + Adderall = Top 10% lol...but seriously though

[09042014]

Retaking the LSAT is not an option. Hard work + Adderall = Top 10% lol...but seriously though

Why not?

[megaTTTron]

Retaking the LSAT is not an option. Hard work + Adderall = Top 10% lol...but seriously though

Look: You can make whatever decisions you want about the LSAT, but the fact of the matter is that this entire thread is irrelevant until you actually have grades.

The true answer to your question is -- wherever you can do better. Wherever you will have the better grades will aid you more when you attempt to transfer.

But because success in law school is nearly impossible to predict, you need to go somewhere you'd be happy to graduate from. If I had a nickel for every kid at my school who bragged to me about how they were going to transfer and promptly stfu after grades came out I'd be able to pay off my student loans. I'm not trying to be a jerk but you just need to know that law school is different than undergrad -- see, the competition, the curve, and luck. You can do well, and I hope you do, but just don't count your chickens before they hatch, or w/e the phrase is, lol.

[traehekat]

The odds are against you, OP. You think you are the first one to think, "Oh, I am just going to work really hard and transfer!"?

Newsflash - almost everyone in law school anywhere works really hard. Banking on transferring is NEVER a good idea. Do NOT attend a law school if you will not be satisfied with graduating from there.

I have to wonder why you have ruled out taking the LSAT again. So many people go through the LSAT and think, "Man, I really don't want to have to go through that again, I just want to go to law school NOW! Besides, I'll just get good grades and transfer, I mean that can't be harder than studying for the LSAT again, right?" Unless there is some absolutely critical reason you must attend law school a year earlier (and I have to doubt there is), you should retake the LSAT. ANY law student will tell you studying for/taking the LSAT is a billion times easier than trying to land top 10-15% in law school and transferring.

It is one year of your life that you aren't in law school - it is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. However, if you choose to attend a school you would not be happy graduating from, chances are you are going to graduate from there and unlike waiting a year to retake, this is a decision that will follow you the rest of your life.

[alllucknotalent]

not to steal the thread but I have a LSAT score that will likely place me in top 5 (if not 1) of the school I am probably going to that is TTT, would it be as unrealistic for me to expect to do very well with hard work.. (i had problems in undergrad that screwed my grades but won't hold me back anymore)

[20160810]

Your 5 page personal statement for UNM must have been interesting.
Did you apply to any other law schools?
My best suggestion is to attend the Univ. of New Mexico School of Law & experience law school before committing to a major move & significant expenses for an unranked law school.

lol@ the 5 page personal statement! I applied to two other schools but I really had no intention of going to either one. I really appreciate your opinion.

Ladies and gentlemen, proof of the old saw that 100% of 0Ls plan to finish 1L in the top 10% of their classes.

Very true. I am fully aware of how difficult law school is...yaddah yaddah yaddah. I have friends who are in law school and I see first hand what makes the 1st year so hard. Lack of familiarity with the terminology and concepts seems to be the hardest part (it takes 6 hours to read something because you spend half of your time looking up definitions). That being said, this summer I will begin reading the casebooks for the first semester required classes and I familiarizing myself with the terminology. The rest is just hard work. I have been working hard my entire life, so law school won't be a shock to my system, unlike many of the "privileged" students I know. Nothing in my life has been easy, so why should I expect this to be? And if you are wondering why I didn't apply this philosophy to my undergrad (so I wouldn't even be in this position), let's just say...young, dumb and full of cum!

This is wildly incorrect. Luck has a lot to do with your law school grades. The difference between an A- and a B+ in a class with a 20/60/20 curve is almost nonexistant quality-wise. Also, reading casebooks over the summer will do nothing except waste your time. If you REALLY want to gun, at least read E&Es. It won't do much for you, but it'll do a hell of a lot more than aimlessly reading casebooks.

[traehekat]

Your 5 page personal statement for UNM must have been interesting.
Did you apply to any other law schools?
My best suggestion is to attend the Univ. of New Mexico School of Law & experience law school before committing to a major move & significant expenses for an unranked law school.

lol@ the 5 page personal statement! I applied to two other schools but I really had no intention of going to either one. I really appreciate your opinion.

Ladies and gentlemen, proof of the old saw that 100% of 0Ls plan to finish 1L in the top 10% of their classes.

Very true. I am fully aware of how difficult law school is...yaddah yaddah yaddah. I have friends who are in law school and I see first hand what makes the 1st year so hard. Lack of familiarity with the terminology and concepts seems to be the hardest part (it takes 6 hours to read something because you spend half of your time looking up definitions). That being said, this summer I will begin reading the casebooks for the first semester required classes and I familiarizing myself with the terminology. The rest is just hard work. I have been working hard my entire life, so law school won't be a shock to my system, unlike many of the "privileged" students I know. Nothing in my life has been easy, so why should I expect this to be? And if you are wondering why I didn't apply this philosophy to my undergrad (so I wouldn't even be in this position), let's just say...young, dumb and full of cum!

This is wildly incorrect. Luck has a lot to do with your law school grades. The difference between an A- and a B+ in a class with a 20/60/20 curve is almost nonexistant quality-wise. Also, reading casebooks over the summer will do nothing except waste your time. If you REALLY want to gun, at least read E&Es. It won't do much for you, but it'll do a hell of a lot more than aimlessly reading casebooks.

Going off the point about wasting time reading casebooks (which is, I am sure, true), there is also a difference between studying hard and studying smart. Already, you are going down the road of studying hard (reading casebooks is not enjoyable nor easy), but as SBL has pointed out, this isn't enough and is actually probably counterproductive. You need to study hard AND study smart.

[megaTTTron]

Your 5 page personal statement for UNM must have been interesting.
Did you apply to any other law schools?
My best suggestion is to attend the Univ. of New Mexico School of Law & experience law school before committing to a major move & significant expenses for an unranked law school.

lol@ the 5 page personal statement! I applied to two other schools but I really had no intention of going to either one. I really appreciate your opinion.

Ladies and gentlemen, proof of the old saw that 100% of 0Ls plan to finish 1L in the top 10% of their classes.

Very true. I am fully aware of how difficult law school is...yaddah yaddah yaddah. I have friends who are in law school and I see first hand what makes the 1st year so hard. Lack of familiarity with the terminology and concepts seems to be the hardest part (it takes 6 hours to read something because you spend half of your time looking up definitions). That being said, this summer I will begin reading the casebooks for the first semester required classes and I familiarizing myself with the terminology. The rest is just hard work. I have been working hard my entire life, so law school won't be a shock to my system, unlike many of the "privileged" students I know. Nothing in my life has been easy, so why should I expect this to be? And if you are wondering why I didn't apply this philosophy to my undergrad (so I wouldn't even be in this position), let's just say...young, dumb and full of cum!

This is wildly incorrect. Luck has a lot to do with your law school grades. The difference between an A- and a B+ in a class with a 20/60/20 curve is almost nonexistant quality-wise. Also, reading casebooks over the summer will do nothing except waste your time. If you REALLY want to gun, at least read E&Es. It won't do much for you, but it'll do a hell of a lot more than aimlessly reading casebooks.

Going off the point about wasting time reading casebooks (which is, I am sure, true), there is also a difference between studying hard and studying smart. Already, you are going down the road of studying hard (reading casebooks is not enjoyable nor easy), but as SBL has pointed out, this isn't enough and is actually probably counterproductive. You need to study hard AND study smart.

+1.

[darknightbegins]

I have been accepted to The University of New Mexico (alma mater) and to Northern Illinois University. After a successful 1st year, I intend to transfer into a higher ranked law school and complete my JD. I am familiar with the transfer requirements of the schools I am interested in attending and I am comfortable with pursuing this route (vs. sitting out another year and retaking LSAT). I want to know which school I should attend for the first year. Here are some important factors in my decision:

1. $$$ is about the same
2. I am about 87% sure that I want to work in Chicago area upon graduation
3. Chicago job market vs. NM job market
4. UNM is a second tier school #77 or so. NIU is not even ranked (I suppose that says something about quality, ect)
5. Both schools have shitty median starting salaries, so staying at either one for 3 years is not an option!
6. Do I stand a better chance of acceptance as a transfer applicant to a Chicago area school as an Illinois resident or out of state? What is the reputation of NIU? Will the other schools frown upon it? ect.

Please get back to me ASAP I have to send my seat deposit to UNM in a day or two.

UNM has gotten to 67 in the rankings now. Not sure if that really matters much, but take it for what it's worth (likely nothing). As a native New Mexican I can tell you UNM is actually a decent law school. They have a low student to faculty ratio and they are the only law school in the state. You have the Albq market all to yourself as well as Santa Fe and state government. The cost of living in the state is low and the weather in Albq is generally pretty good, but varied enough that you will get all four seasons. There are parts of the state where you can get very mild winters and other parts were you can look forward to snow and cold weather for much of the year. Also, I would think UNM would be able to place decent into El Paso, if you have any interest in that particular Texas city.

What I don't get, is that if you could get into UNM why couldn't you get into Chicago-Kent? It is ranked number 80. I would think if you got into UNM you should be able to get into Kent, or be right on the bubble and retaking the LSAT and scoring a shade higher should get you in.

If Chicago is really where you want to be I would think Kent would be a much better option than either of the two you have listed.