NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

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CrimsonCal
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby CrimsonCal » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:17 pm

I'd pick NYU, but the only reason I say that is because I'd be depressed out of my mind living in Ann Arbor...

City life runs deep in my veins...

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:21 pm

Yeah, I'd rule NYU out here. Basically, I think it's Michigan vs. Virginia. 20k+ is no small sum of money, but I'd be hesitant about the fact that you weren't stoked on UVA for your visit. I'm a bit biased as I will probably end up at Michigan myself, but if I were you, I'd take the Michigan offer.

EDIT: Upon further thought, I feel even more sure of this. You didn't mention UVA in your original post because you had essentially ruled it out. It must really have not felt right. Go with Michigan.

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Helmholtz
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:26 pm

tamlyric wrote:+1, except that Michigan is a peer of CCN in terms of academic placement.

See, e.g., Solum's academic hiring report from last year: http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheory/2 ... eport.html


Also, Michigan has historically and presently done better in clerkships than NYU, and even put more students into the NLJ250 than NYU did according to the most recent data. Personally, I think there's a case to be made for taking Michigan over NYU if both at sticker; the money from Michigan is just icing on the cake.

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violinst
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby violinst » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:26 pm

tamlyric wrote:
beesknees wrote:
tamlyric wrote:
beesknees wrote:Go to Michigan. $92k in repayment is almost a $1000 extra per month. And whoever said CCN was leaps and bounds over MVP is probably full of it, with the exception of academia placement. Just compare the two schools top firm and clerkship placement.

Michigan is a great school with great national placement. If you HAD to live in NYC, then maybe I could see NYU, but you seem open to any other large market, which Michigan should offer you with a decent performance. NYU doesn't seem like it could offer you much more and it costs a lot more.


+1, except that Michigan is a peer of CCN in terms of academic placement.

See, e.g., Solum's academic hiring report from last year: http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheory/2 ... eport.html


I was just trying to CMA about academia, since I've always heard Chicago is really good for academia, but I stand corrected!

So yeah, Michigan lol.


Ha! It is certainly a happy surprise for those of us considering Michigan. :D


Michigan is twice as big as Chicago.

09042014
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:30 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
tamlyric wrote:+1, except that Michigan is a peer of CCN in terms of academic placement.

See, e.g., Solum's academic hiring report from last year: http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheory/2 ... eport.html


Also, Michigan has historically and presently done better in clerkships than NYU, and even put more students into the NLJ250 than NYU did according to the most recent data. Personally, I think there's a case to be made for taking Michigan over NYU if both at sticker; the money from Michigan is just icing on the cake.


Last years data is a special case. NYC got hit hard with no offers, and NYU places over overwhelmingly in NYC, while Michigan is diverse.

Class of 2013 will almost without a doubt have an easier time getting big law at NYU than at Michigan.

Whether the difference is worth 67K is up to the op.

tamlyric
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby tamlyric » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:33 pm

violinst wrote:
tamlyric wrote:Ha! It is certainly a happy surprise for those of us considering Michigan. :D


Michigan is twice as big as Chicago.


Yes, it is. In any case, Michigan is a top 5 school when it comes to academic placement--hence the happy surprise.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby tamlyric » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:37 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
tamlyric wrote:+1, except that Michigan is a peer of CCN in terms of academic placement.

See, e.g., Solum's academic hiring report from last year: http://lsolum.typepad.com/legaltheory/2 ... eport.html


Also, Michigan has historically and presently done better in clerkships than NYU, and even put more students into the NLJ250 than NYU did according to the most recent data. Personally, I think there's a case to be made for taking Michigan over NYU if both at sticker; the money from Michigan is just icing on the cake.


I think Helm is right about this, fwiw.

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Helmholtz
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:38 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Last years data is a special case. NYC got hit hard with no offers, and NYU places over overwhelmingly in NYC, while Michigan is diverse.

Class of 2013 will almost without a doubt have an easier time getting big law at NYU than at Michigan.


Is the risk in having a school tied to closely to one market. Having alumni spread throughout the US like Michigan does is a big plus. Who knows what things are going to be like in 2013, I'm certainly not comfortable in projecting economic forecast a few years into the future.

Anyway, NYU and Michigan are peer schools IMO.

09042014
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:46 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Last years data is a special case. NYC got hit hard with no offers, and NYU places over overwhelmingly in NYC, while Michigan is diverse.

Class of 2013 will almost without a doubt have an easier time getting big law at NYU than at Michigan.


Is the risk in having a school tied to closely to one market. Having alumni spread throughout the US like Michigan does is a big plus. Who knows what things are going to be like in 2013, I'm certainly not comfortable in projecting economic forecast a few years into the future.

Anyway, NYU and Michigan are peer schools IMO.


Some rancid Michigan trolling here. NYU NLJ#'s have always been comparable to CC. While Michigan's have been comparable to VPBDNC.

NYU also places significantly better at elite firms. http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

Don't make too much hay about a one blip in placement. Class of 2013 won't look like 2009.

I'd take Michigan for 90K less in debt, but lets not pretend they are equal at sticker.

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby of Benito Cereno » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:50 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Last years data is a special case. NYC got hit hard with no offers, and NYU places over overwhelmingly in NYC, while Michigan is diverse.

Class of 2013 will almost without a doubt have an easier time getting big law at NYU than at Michigan.


Is the risk in having a school tied to closely to one market. Having alumni spread throughout the US like Michigan does is a big plus. Who knows what things are going to be like in 2013, I'm certainly not comfortable in projecting economic forecast a few years into the future.

Anyway, NYU and Michigan are peer schools IMO.


Some rancid Michigan trolling here. NYU NLJ#'s have always been comparable to CC. While Michigan's have been comparable to VPBDNC.

NYU also places significantly better at elite firms. http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

Don't make too much hay about a one blip in placement. Class of 2013 won't look like 2009.

I'd take Michigan for 90K less in debt, but lets not pretend they are equal at sticker.

I must say, those Leiter nubmers are pretty compelling. Especially as they take into account all attorneys at those firms (thus including hiring classes from back in the day when nyu was firmly T10ish and Michigan was seen as more elite).

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Helmholtz
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Last years data is a special case. NYC got hit hard with no offers, and NYU places over overwhelmingly in NYC, while Michigan is diverse.

Class of 2013 will almost without a doubt have an easier time getting big law at NYU than at Michigan.


Is the risk in having a school tied to closely to one market. Having alumni spread throughout the US like Michigan does is a big plus. Who knows what things are going to be like in 2013, I'm certainly not comfortable in projecting economic forecast a few years into the future.

Anyway, NYU and Michigan are peer schools IMO.


Some rancid Michigan trolling here. NYU NLJ#'s have always been comparable to CC. While Michigan's have been comparable to VPBDNC.

NYU also places significantly better at elite firms. http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

Don't make too much hay about a one blip in placement. Class of 2013 won't look like 2009.

I'd take Michigan for 90K less in debt, but lets not pretend they are equal at sticker.


I think NLJ250 numbers tell a very limited story of prospects, especially when you have a lot of students heading into things other than private practice, like Michigan does. Biglaw is heavily concentrated towards the big markets like NYC. Since many NYU students self-select into that city, it doesn't surprise me that their numbers would be higher, just like GULC's numbers are higher than UVA's for the "most prestigious firms."

According to Michigan, 71% of their graduates head into private practice, don't something like 80-85% of NYU graduates go into private practice (cannot find the exact data, somebody correct me if I'm wrong)?

09042014
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:07 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Last years data is a special case. NYC got hit hard with no offers, and NYU places over overwhelmingly in NYC, while Michigan is diverse.

Class of 2013 will almost without a doubt have an easier time getting big law at NYU than at Michigan.


Is the risk in having a school tied to closely to one market. Having alumni spread throughout the US like Michigan does is a big plus. Who knows what things are going to be like in 2013, I'm certainly not comfortable in projecting economic forecast a few years into the future.

Anyway, NYU and Michigan are peer schools IMO.


Some rancid Michigan trolling here. NYU NLJ#'s have always been comparable to CC. While Michigan's have been comparable to VPBDNC.

NYU also places significantly better at elite firms. http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

Don't make too much hay about a one blip in placement. Class of 2013 won't look like 2009.

I'd take Michigan for 90K less in debt, but lets not pretend they are equal at sticker.


I think NLJ250 numbers tell a very limited story of prospects, especially when you have a lot of students heading into things other than private practice, like Michigan does. Biglaw is heavily concentrated towards the big markets like NYC. Since many NYU students self-select into that city, it doesn't surprise me that their numbers would be higher, just like GULC's numbers are higher than UVA's for the "most prestigious firms."

According to Michigan, 71% of their graduates head into private practice, don't something like 80-85% of NYU graduates go into private practice (cannot find the exact data, somebody correct me if I'm wrong)?


NYU is known for being a good PI school, why would UMich students have a higher propensity towards non-private practice? Michigan's lower private practice percentage may just be some of them heading to government when they can't find big law.

If the OP specifically didn't want to practice in a big firm I'd see your argument, but the OP wants exactly what NYU excels at, elite big law in NYC.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby AngryAvocado » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:08 pm

The fact that more than half of those 15 firms are headquartered in NYC definitely favors NYU, but I do think the CCN advantage becomes more noticeable as you start looking at V100 and above. Personally, I would probably take the money in this case (unless you hate Ann Arbor), but I wouldn't fault you for choosing NYU either.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:NYU is known for being a good PI school, why would UMich students have a higher propensity towards non-private practice? Michigan's lower private practice percentage may just be some of them heading to government when they can't find big law.

If the OP specifically didn't want to practice in a big firm I'd see your argument, but the OP wants exactly what NYU excels at, elite big law in NYC.


I actually think Mich puts more students into public interest work than NYU does. And it may be them giving up spots at V100 firms for prestigious government work, now we're just blindly guessing. When it comes to actual jobs, I think NYU and Michigan are going to be seen as the same.

And OP just sounds like he wants to do corporate work in a big market with a preference towards NYC. Not inextricably tied to that market.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby holydonkey » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:18 pm

ITT UVA trolls are caught off guard whilst playing softball and lose a fantastic applicant to Michigan.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby tamlyric » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:20 pm

holydonkey wrote:ITT UVA trolls are caught off guard whilst playing softball and lose a fantastic applicant to Michigan.


LMAO. :lol:

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby doinmybest » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:48 pm

holydonkey wrote:ITT UVA trolls are caught off guard whilst playing softball and lose a fantastic applicant to Michigan.


Holydonkey thank you for this gem. I'm so glad you've chosen Mich with the rest of us :)

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby garrett09 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:56 pm

Helmholtz wrote:I actually think Mich puts more students into public interest work than NYU does.


Okay, can we get some stats on this? Everything anyone ever says about PI is that NYU has roughly double as many graduates going into public interest than its peer schools.

I definitely agree that OP should take Michigan for 100k less, but all of this Michigan > NYU stuff is a bit much. I am not huge on rankings, but NYU has outranking Mich for awhile. There's got to be some reason, right? I don't think the posters on this thread, convincing as their arguments may be, should convince many people that Michigan is generally a superior school, esp for someone with OP's interests.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:03 pm

garrett09 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:I actually think Mich puts more students into public interest work than NYU does.


Okay, can we get some stats on this? Everything anyone ever says about PI is that NYU has roughly double as many graduates going into public interest than its peer schools.

I definitely agree that OP should take Michigan for 100k less, but all of this Michigan > NYU stuff is a bit much. I am not huge on rankings, but NYU has outranking Mich for awhile. There's got to be some reason, right? I don't think the posters on this thread, convincing as their arguments may be, should convince many people that Michigan is generally a superior school, esp for someone with OP's interests.


FWIW, I do not agree that Michigan > NYU objectively. The most recent data I could find comparing the two re: PI raw percentage placement is this: http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/composite.pdf , which is of course, only one year and from a few years back, fwiw.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby tamlyric » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:03 pm

garrett09 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:I actually think Mich puts more students into public interest work than NYU does.


Okay, can we get some stats on this? Everything anyone ever says about PI is that NYU has roughly double as many graduates going into public interest than its peer schools.

I definitely agree that OP should take Michigan for 100k less, but all of this Michigan > NYU stuff is a bit much. I am not huge on rankings, but NYU has outranking Mich for awhile. There's got to be some reason, right? I don't think the posters on this thread, convincing as their arguments may be, should convince many people that Michigan is generally a superior school, esp for someone with OP's interests.


I don't think anyone here is arguing that Michigan > NYU. I think the claim is that they are arguably peer schools. If anyone wants to dispute this, they need to claim that it is self-evident that NYU > Michigan. While this might be the conventional wisdom, the point of various posters in this thread is that the conventional wisdom might well be wrong.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby Fancy Pants » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:18 pm

tamlyric wrote: If anyone wants to dispute this, they need to claim that it is self-evident that NYU > Michigan.


It is self-evident that NYU > Michigan.

Boom.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby MidlawMyth » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:24 pm

tamlyric wrote:
garrett09 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:I actually think Mich puts more students into public interest work than NYU does.


Okay, can we get some stats on this? Everything anyone ever says about PI is that NYU has roughly double as many graduates going into public interest than its peer schools.

I definitely agree that OP should take Michigan for 100k less, but all of this Michigan > NYU stuff is a bit much. I am not huge on rankings, but NYU has outranking Mich for awhile. There's got to be some reason, right? I don't think the posters on this thread, convincing as their arguments may be, should convince many people that Michigan is generally a superior school, esp for someone with OP's interests.


I don't think anyone here is arguing that Michigan > NYU. I think the claim is that they are arguably peer schools. If anyone wants to dispute this, they need to claim that it is self-evident that NYU > Michigan. While this might be the conventional wisdom, the point of various posters in this thread is that the conventional wisdom might well be wrong.
CCN

MVP

They are clear distinctions. V100 firms go deeper in CCN than they do for MVP. The cost benefit/analysis of $90K for the increased shot at BIGLAW? Probably a very close call.

coulduhelpplz
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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby coulduhelpplz » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:36 pm

holydonkey wrote:ITT UVA trolls are caught off guard whilst playing softball and lose a fantastic applicant to Michigan.


Funniest thing I've read all day. Surprised the guy sitting next to me with my guffaw.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby remotelyfeasible » Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:42 pm

MidlawMyth wrote:CCN

MVP

They are clear distinctions. V100 firms go deeper in CCN than they do for MVP. The cost benefit/analysis of $90K for the increased shot at BIGLAW? Probably a very close call.
QFT.

Though I'd add B to the second group. But they're on the west coast and irrelevant here.

Personally, I'd still pick UVA here. And I don't think the NLJ stats are that telling. NYU places a lot better at elite firms. NYU is definitely > Michigan, especially if you want to work at an elite litigation boutique or a V10 firm.

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Re: NYU vs 67,500 UMich; 92 k difference in Tuition + Board

Postby tamlyric » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:00 pm

Fancy Pants wrote:
tamlyric wrote: If anyone wants to dispute this, they need to claim that it is self-evident that NYU > Michigan.


It is self-evident that NYU > Michigan.

Boom.

:lol:




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