Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

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General Tso
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Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby General Tso » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:26 pm

check it out here:
http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... r-not.html

Among those he mentions are those already picked up on by TLS: Duke, Arizona State, UC Davis, Chapman, etc. He points out an interesting thing -- any school claiming above 95% employed at graduation is claiming a higher employment rate than YALE.
Duke University is the only law school in the United States of America to have reported 100% of its graduates employed at graduation.

Duke, Northwestern University, University of Iowa, University of Utah, and University of Hawaii are the only law schools in the United States to have reported 100% of their graduates employed nine months after graduating (by then in the midst of the worst economic downturn since the Great Depresion)--thus trouncing Yale, Stanford, Berkeley, Cornell, Georgetown, Wash U/St. Louis, and many others.

University of California at Davis reported 97.3% of its graduates employed at graduation, while the University of California at Hastings reported only 69.8% of its graduates employed at graduation.

Arizona State University reported 90.7% of its graduates employed at graduation, while the University of Arizona reported only 77.4%. (ASU also leap-frogged nearly 20 spots in the overall ranking, showing up ahead of U of Arizona. Strangely enough, ASU is part of a university that rewards its leaders for improvements in U.S. News ranking.)

George Mason University reported 95.9% of its graduates employed at graduation, more than Georgetown and George Washington Universities.

Chapman University reported 91.1% of its graduated employed at graduation, more than any school ranked between 47 and 100 in U.S. News (Chapman ranked 93rd).

These are just some of the Ripley-style facts that leap out on casual perusal of the "data" printed by U.S. News.

beardown_tho
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby beardown_tho » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:58 pm

I enjoyed reading that

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby Mr. Matlock » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:01 pm

Leiter is just as insufferable as USNews.

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pany1985
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby pany1985 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:03 pm

So what school's gonna take some initiative and bump up to 105% for next year?

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Thirteen
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby Thirteen » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:14 pm

pany1985 wrote:So what school's gonna take some initiative and bump up to 105% for next year?


Image

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Ford Prefect
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby Ford Prefect » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:18 pm

Blue striped pants with a red shirt and white and red socks? Who the hell does that baby think he is?

beardown_tho
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby beardown_tho » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:24 pm

This all reminds me of:

ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL: So for the time being, all teachers will devote class time to teaching language arts sample questions. Now if you turn to page eleven, please, I have some things I want to go over with you.

ROLAND “PREZ” PRYZBYLEWSKI: I don’t get it, all this so we score higher on the state tests? If we’re teaching the kids the test questions, what is it assessing in them?

TEACHER: Nothing, it assesses us. The test scores go up, they can say the schools are improving. The scores stay down, they can’t.

PREZ: Juking the stats.

TEACHER: Excuse me?

PREZ: Making robberies into larcenies, making rapes disappear. You juke the stats, and major become colonels. I’ve been here before.

TEACHER: Wherever you go, there you are.

Renzo
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby Renzo » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:32 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:Leiter is just as insufferable as USNews.

My ratings are bigger than your ratings.


My methodologies could beat up your methodologies.

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ggocat
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby ggocat » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:21 am

I'm surprised he doesn't mention Baltimore; at-graduation employment rate of 93.4% notwithstanding a bar passage rate of 84.6%? Wow.

They jumped from tier 4 to tier 3 for the first time this year.

This is what their current dean has said about the rankings:
"U.S. News is not a moral code, it's a set of seriously flawed rules of a magazine, and I follow the rules...without hiding anything."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1219717 ... s_page_one (discussing how he raised Toledo from tier 4 to tier 2 by funneling low LSAT applicants into the part-time program).

270910
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby 270910 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:56 am

Mr. Matlock wrote:Leiter is just as insufferable as USNews.

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Rand M.
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby Rand M. » Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:03 am

beardown_tho wrote:This all reminds me of:

ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL: So for the time being, all teachers will devote class time to teaching language arts sample questions. Now if you turn to page eleven, please, I have some things I want to go over with you.

ROLAND “PREZ” PRYZBYLEWSKI: I don’t get it, all this so we score higher on the state tests? If we’re teaching the kids the test questions, what is it assessing in them?

TEACHER: Nothing, it assesses us. The test scores go up, they can say the schools are improving. The scores stay down, they can’t.

PREZ: Juking the stats.

TEACHER: Excuse me?

PREZ: Making robberies into larcenies, making rapes disappear. You juke the stats, and major become colonels. I’ve been here before.

TEACHER: Wherever you go, there you are.


One of the many scenes that made that far and away the best show of all time.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby motiontodismiss » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:38 pm

OMG people fudge stats? Stop the presses!

I guess 93% employment at graduation from Baltimore law is possible if you count the people working at Starbucks.

Renzo
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby Renzo » Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:38 pm

motiontodismiss wrote:OMG people fudge stats? Stop the presses!

I guess 93% employment at graduation from Baltimore law is possible if you count the people working at Starbucks.

They do, and that counts in the 'business' category.

sumus romani
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby sumus romani » Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:49 pm

Renzo wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:OMG people fudge stats? Stop the presses!

I guess 93% employment at graduation from Baltimore law is possible if you count the people working at Starbucks.

They do, and that counts in the 'business' category.



Is there any reason why the USNews cannot change the category from "employment" to "JD required (or preferred) employment"? The data would still be self-reported, but at least it would be a little bit better.

NYVA311
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby NYVA311 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:06 pm

ggocat wrote:I'm surprised he doesn't mention Baltimore; at-graduation employment rate of 93.4% notwithstanding a bar passage rate of 84.6%? Wow.

They jumped from tier 4 to tier 3 for the first time this year.

This is what their current dean has said about the rankings:
"U.S. News is not a moral code, it's a set of seriously flawed rules of a magazine, and I follow the rules...without hiding anything."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1219717 ... s_page_one (discussing how he raised Toledo from tier 4 to tier 2 by funneling low LSAT applicants into the part-time program).


Baltimore was a T3 two years ago - they've also always done incredibly well in Baltimore/MD because they're only competing with UMD and have a lot of loyal alumni. Everyone fudges employment statistics but Baltimore is definitely a strong regional school. The dean also mentioned this and was honest that while 93.4% are employed, 86% are employed in the legal sector. They obviously aren't a top tier school feeding a lot of people into big law, but they do well in their region.

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Dignan
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby Dignan » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:11 pm

NYVA311 wrote:
Baltimore was a T3 two years ago - they've also always done incredibly well in Baltimore/MD because they're only competing with UMD and have a lot of loyal alumni. Everyone fudges employment statistics but Baltimore is definitely a strong regional school. The dean also mentioned this and was honest that while 93.4% are employed, 86% are employed in the legal sector. They obviously aren't a top tier school feeding a lot of people into big law, but they do well in their region.

I agree that U of B is a strong regional school if you want to work in Baltimore/MD. I'm still suspicious of that 93.4% employment figure, though.

NYVA311
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby NYVA311 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:17 pm

Dignan wrote:
NYVA311 wrote:
Baltimore was a T3 two years ago - they've also always done incredibly well in Baltimore/MD because they're only competing with UMD and have a lot of loyal alumni. Everyone fudges employment statistics but Baltimore is definitely a strong regional school. The dean also mentioned this and was honest that while 93.4% are employed, 86% are employed in the legal sector. They obviously aren't a top tier school feeding a lot of people into big law, but they do well in their region.

I agree that U of B is a strong regional school if you want to work in Baltimore/MD. I'm still suspicious of that 93.4% employment figure, though.


Yeah, it's a bit high for sure. The dean even said that you can't rely on the reported employment numbers because they include "McDonalds cashiers" - which is why he clarified the percentage working in the legal sector. I guess that means 7.4% of U of B grads are working those types of jobs.

Anyway, some schools did make massive leaps for reasons completely unknown to me. I don't get why Hofstra or St. John's made such large jumps when I don't think much changed. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Hofstra grads had the lowest NY state bar passage rate last year?

Hey-O
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Re: Prof. Leiter scrutinizes employment reporting to USNWR

Postby Hey-O » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:22 pm

mdallavis wrote:Blue striped pants with a red shirt and white and red socks? Who the hell does that baby think he is?


+1




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