Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

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eagles86
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Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby eagles86 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:59 pm

Okay, so these are my choices. As of now I am fairly certain I will be heading to Miami but just wanted to see what others have to say about the job prospects regarding these three schools. I think I will do fine at any of these schools but for the purpose of this thread, tell me what the job prospects are at these schools for those who finish roughly at the median.

Miami: PROS: - biggest fish by far in South FL...clearly defined area that it dominates, great alumni network, successful placement in decent paying regional mid- size firms. Great weather too and good QOL.
CONS: Cost (although I have no undergrad debt so I'm not terribly concerned), wouldnt mind returning to northeast at some point but more than willing to work in South FL for several years upon graduation.

OVERALL: I feel it's as good as any Tier 2 school out there and placement is basically as good as most bottom Tier 1 schools.


Seton Hall: PROS: From NJ, wouldnt mind coming back at some point, places fine in northern/ central NJ
CONS: Horror stories everywhere I hear, school accused of manipulating employment data, heard that top 15% have it great and after that there is a major drop off. Cost is also insane.

OVERALL: I'm very skeptical because I hear so much about the "valvoline dean" and grads stuck doing document review.

RU- Camden: PROS: Same as SHU but places more in Philly. Very affordable cost AT THE MOMENT
CONS: skeptical about the "clerkships" that 40% of the class goes into. Many are probably the traffic court types, not federal or appellate. Tuition will be rising soon, there is no way NJ cuts education funding and this doesnt happen. Camden also isnt exactly the best places to spend three years while in my early to mid 20s.

OVERALL: Cost is fine right now but Camden just doesnt appeal that much to me.

Please post your thoughts and none of the T14 or your life is screwed stuff.

viking138
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby viking138 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:08 pm

If you're paying sticker at any of these schools, I'd say Miami is the only way to go. I have heard nothing but bad things about Seton Hall. From what I know, Miami is sort of the second-best in the state of Florida and is very strong in its home market. I don't know anything about RU-Camden but I would actively advise you not to go to Seton Hall.

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eagles86
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby eagles86 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:12 pm

That's what I'm thinking too. I know UF places better throughout the state, Gainesville is 6 hours north of Miami so while UF is better for Orlando/ Tampa/ Jacksonville, UM should be good for South FL. Whats the realistic placement for seton hall though

viking138
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby viking138 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:22 pm

eagles86 wrote:That's what I'm thinking too. I know UF places better throughout the state, Gainesville is 6 hours north of Miami so while UF is better for Orlando/ Tampa/ Jacksonville, UM should be good for South FL. Whats the realistic placement for seton hall though


Realistic? It has to take a backseat not only to all the T14 grads who want to be in the NYC area (and who will often take Jersey just to be near NYC) but also to all the NYC area law schools above it which include Fordham, Cardozo, and even Brooklyn. The idea that Seton Hall places even 15% into "Big Law" might have been true before the legal bubble burst but there's just no way it's true now. It's say the top 2-3 students have a shot at it.

100% I'd say go with Miami. You can still get a decent paying job coming from Miami.

keg411
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:26 pm

There are RU-C 1L and 2L's who have posted recently in the C/O 2013 forum who confirmed that the clerkships are NOT traffic court/night court clerkships; they are mostly state appellate court clerkships (and likely some trial court clerkships which are a little lower, but none are what you are skeptical about). However, it seems like you have no interest in going there, and don't care about cost, so just pay for Miami.

ETA: I went to Miami for undergrad. By the end of my 4 years, I had no desire to live there long term. It's kind of one of those "it's a great place to visit/go to school, but I wouldn't want to work there...." cities (which is why I chose not to apply for law school). I do miss the "winters" though :(.
Last edited by keg411 on Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DerrickRose
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby DerrickRose » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:53 pm

I wouldn't pay sticker for it, but if I had to go to a T2, all things considered, it would definitely be Miami.

Turning down their full ride was the hardest decision I made in my cycle. I was ruing it every morning from November to March.

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eagles86
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby eagles86 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:02 pm

That's good to know that the clerkships are competitive at Camden. My main issue with it is really the prospect of going to school in that city. The cost is fair as of now but again, its going to go up (along with Newark). Seton Hall gets accused of putting grads into traffic court clerkships, which for $44K a year in tuition is beyond absurd. Camden does have to compete with Temple, Villanova but seems on par with them as far as Philly goes. Penn of course beats them all but not many T14ers go to Philly anyway. NY/NJ seems to be Columbia= NYU>Fordham>Cardozo>Brooklyn>St Johns= Seton Hall= RU- Newark> Hofstra in terms of job prospects. I like that Miami has very little competition in the immediate area. Still, I wonder what the average at median seton hall grad does roughly 10 years from graduation and how that compares to Miami, Camden etc

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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby dp73816 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:04 pm

eagles86 wrote:That's good to know that the clerkships are competitive at Camden. My main issue with it is really the prospect of going to school in that city. The cost is fair as of now but again, its going to go up (along with Newark). Seton Hall gets accused of putting grads into traffic court clerkships, which for $44K a year in tuition is beyond absurd. Camden does have to compete with Temple, Villanova but seems on par with them as far as Philly goes. Penn of course beats them all but not many T14ers go to Philly anyway. NY/NJ seems to be Columbia= NYU>Fordham>Cardozo>Brooklyn>St Johns= Seton Hall= RU- Newark> Hofstra in terms of job prospects. I like that Miami has very little competition in the immediate area. Still, I wonder what the average at median seton hall grad does roughly 10 years from graduation and how that compares to Miami, Camden etc


Miami is a private school - therefore no possibility of in-state tuition. RU-C, even if tuition goes up, will still be MUCH cheaper. Both are good decisions. Do not do Seton Hall.

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eagles86
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby eagles86 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:05 pm

I know its a private school..never said it wasnt. My thinking is that my ceiling in terms of jobs is higher at Miami than Camden and can potentially offset the higher tuition.

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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby dp73816 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:13 pm

eagles86 wrote:I know its a private school..never said it wasnt. My thinking is that my ceiling in terms of jobs is higher at Miami than Camden and can potentially offset the higher tuition.



I hear ya...I'm "on hold" at UM and in already at RU-C, so its possible that I may be in your situation in the next coming weeks. My uncle is partner in a firm in S. Florida and a UM alum, and I have spoken with him on the subject. He paid full price for UM back in the mid-90's, when it cost around 27k a year. His advice was "time are different, don't pay full if you dont have to": essentially, find the best balance between the best school and lowest cost. In this case, wit UM being close to 40k, he advised me to lean towards choosing RU-C. Its a good school with a great national reputation (i.e. "big name").

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eagles86
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby eagles86 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:20 pm

I just feel that Miami's job prospects are better and it can justify the $40K differences (which isnt much in the grand scheme of things). You prolly want me to decline my spot so you can get in haha

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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:30 pm

40k difference between Miami and Rutgers? How do you figure that. After cost of living is factors into the equation you will be looking at roughly 180k in debt from Miami, Rutgers looks like it will be roughly 100k for the three years. I would go to Rutgers in your situation. he employment prospects of the two schools are comparable, but you are truly overrating the types of jobs anyone outside the top 10% of Miami grads can get. Its a scary school to go to at sticker.

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dp73816
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby dp73816 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:35 pm

eagles86 wrote:I just feel that Miami's job prospects are better and it can justify the $40K differences (which isnt much in the grand scheme of things). You prolly want me to decline my spot so you can get in haha



Naa Im going to Rutgers - I have a scholarship and they gave me in-state tuition. I agree with one of the earlier posters, UM is not a place I would want to live (but love to visit!) and I like Philly a lot. Ill only be paying 10k a year at Rutgers, so its really not that hard of a choice.

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eagles86
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby eagles86 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:36 am

So Seton Hall is now 100% out for me. Why do they call their dean the Valvoline Dean on here? Is Camden's campus area safe at least? And how far away from the law building before you get to the rough parts? Not that Miami is super safe by any means, but Coral Gables is fairly.

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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby dp73816 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:42 am

eagles86 wrote:So Seton Hall is now 100% out for me. Why do they call their dean the Valvoline Dean on here? Is Camden's campus area safe at least? And how far away from the law building before you get to the rough parts? Not that Miami is super safe by any means, but Coral Gables is fairly.



The area around school is rough, not gonna lie. But its nothing ridiculous; I used to live in Miami in the mid-90's, and believe me, there are much worse places just as close to the Gables. Both places are being cleaned up, so it will become less of a problem over time. The only real difference I can think of is that drivers in Miami suck, and you have to be fairly fluent in spanish to get by.

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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby Devin the Dude » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:47 am

Those NJ family court clerkships seem designed to keep at least some local students off the dole while they pass the bar and look for a job. I wish they had those in my state. I mean, all states have state-level clerkships, but NJ has way more than anywhere else.

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A'nold
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby A'nold » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:04 am

I can't believe that there isn't a massive string of 20 posters asking op if they are crazy for thinking of choosing UM at sticker over IN-STATE at RU-C. Weird.

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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby dp73816 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:09 am

A'nold wrote:I can't believe that there isn't a massive string of 20 posters asking op if they are crazy for thinking of choosing UM at sticker over IN-STATE at RU-C. Weird.



Tried to be nice about it...but those are essentially my feelings on the matter.

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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby gdane » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:36 pm

I second what keg411 said. I went to FIU for undergrad and I cannot wait to get out of Miami. I didnt apply to UM either because I dont want to be here any longer. Its most definitely a great place to visit, but not so great to live in. To me and keg411 at least. Some people spend their entire lives here and are happy. I think my thinking is attributed to the fact that I'm not a native Miamian. I was born and raised in Brooklyn, NY and those blazing hot days for 9 months at a time get annoying. Plus, driving everywhere sucks. Id like to walk once in a while.

Anywhoo, UM is a rare case of where USNWR's ranking doesnt matter one bit. UM has a dominant grip on the So. Fla market, both in undergrad and post grad. UM grads, attorneys and doctors have a stranglehold on the market and if you go to UM and perform well, there is no doubt you can land a decent paying job. Miami is probably one of the few schools in the country that are ranked low, yet place amazingly well in Biglaw.

Good luck!

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eagles86
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby eagles86 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:29 pm

I hate the cold winters so that wont be a problem. I highly doubt I'll live in the actual city of Miami after I graduate, probably in a nicer suburb that's much safer.

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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby BarbellDreams » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:38 pm

gdane5 wrote:I second what keg411 said. I went to FIU for undergrad and I cannot wait to get out of Miami. I didnt apply to UM either because I dont want to be here any longer. Its most definitely a great place to visit, but not so great to live in. To me and keg411 at least. Some people spend their entire lives here and are happy. I think my thinking is attributed to the fact that I'm not a native Miamian. I was born and raised in Brooklyn, NY and those blazing hot days for 9 months at a time get annoying. Plus, driving everywhere sucks. Id like to walk once in a while.

Anywhoo, UM is a rare case of where USNWR's ranking doesnt matter one bit. UM has a dominant grip on the So. Fla market, both in undergrad and post grad. UM grads, attorneys and doctors have a stranglehold on the market and if you go to UM and perform well, there is no doubt you can land a decent paying job. Miami is probably one of the few schools in the country that are ranked low, yet place amazingly well in Biglaw.

Good luck!


Biggest overstatement of the century. If by amazingly well you mean 10% then sure, its "amazing".

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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby reverendt » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:43 pm

If you're willing to settle in Miami for an indefinite amount of time, I think Miami is the way to go.

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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby yeahyeah2121 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:48 pm

Sorry if I'm high-jacking the thread, but I was also accepted to all of those schools and am considering attending Seton Hall because I was offered 35k a year - translation, I'd be paying 6k a year and graduating with 18,000 in debt. Is it really as awful as everyone makes it out to be? I really can't believe that it is. I know several very successful lawyers in NJ and they've all told me Seton Hall as a strong regional reputation in NJ, and some even have told me it's more highly regarded than Rutgers. I can't imagine that they would have any reason to lie to me. How/why is it so bad? I'm considering taking a year off to take the LSAT again (studied for a month, took it once - 162ish, have a 3.8+ GPA) and get into a "more pretigious" school next cycle, but I really don't know that it gets much better than graduating with close to no debt when I want to practice in NJ/NY anyway. Shoot me straight if I'm being ridiculous please, because right now the $$$ looks a little too tempting to pass up.

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eagles86
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby eagles86 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:48 pm

I'm willing to live there for several years after graduation, maybe not forever but still for a bit. I think the good placement extends more to medium sized firms in So Fla, not so much biglaw. I dont really know if I want the high biglaw billable requirements anyway.

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eagles86
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Re: Realistic job prospects- Miami vs Seton Hall vs RU- Camden

Postby eagles86 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:49 pm

FYI i didnt get a penny from Seton Hall so that's why its out for me. 35 grand a year can change opinions lol




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