Giving up this cycle.

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coulduhelpplz
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Giving up this cycle.

Postby coulduhelpplz » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:18 pm

Ok, so I know some people retake high LSAT scores. Are there as many people who redo cycles?

I went through the whole deal. Applied to 20 some schools. Got into most of them. Received normal amounts of scholarship (sort of). Lucky enough to get 5 t14 acceptances.

And now...

It's not good enough, not ITE. Anyone else scared enough to start again, retake the LSAT, try harder, and do better? I'm not a good enough fortune teller to say how well I'll do in LS, so even taking 45k at Mich, for example, could be the kiss of death that puts me into debt ugliness for the rest of my 20s and 30s.

Is this sort of self-doubt normal?

Z3RO
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby Z3RO » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:26 pm

Unless you're amazing, 45k at Mich is gold.

It still couldn't hurt to wait a year. Legal market is shit at the moment, and it doesn't look like it's getting much better. If you want to put off 2L interviews for one more fiscal year, it might not be a bad idea.

That said, don't expect a ton more $$ or better schools the second time around. Every year is a 'record year' in the business of law school applications.

*Edit* I'm an 0L.

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neimanmarxist
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby neimanmarxist » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:28 pm

I disagree with the poster above (no hard feelings Z3ro :) ) .

I am also a 0 L

Truthfully I think your chances of ending up above median at Michigan and landing a job that can pay your loans and the rent are better than (anyone's) chances of getting HYS in the next round . Don't bank on an LSAT score you don't have yet. Each successive cycle is wont to be more competitive than the last as the economy declines, the test prep companies get bigger, and students get wiser as to what it takes to make it into a good school. It costs something like $1000 to apply to 20 schools unless you qualify for a lot of fee waivers. If you're re-prepping for the LSAT, the total cost of that endeavor adds up quickly (don't I know it) . And don't forget the opportunity cost of starting to work as a lawyer a full year later.

Go to one of your T14s, work your butt off, and try and hit the median. If you do fabulously, apply to transfer. If you do okay, take marketable courses, do as well as you can, network , consider secondary markets, and get a job. When you get your job, live responsibly, and pay your loans. People are still getting hired out of these places. The sky is not falling. And the chances that it will are about as good as your (anyone's) hypothetical chance at making it into Super Dream School next cycle.

Z3RO
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby Z3RO » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:31 pm

neimanmarxist wrote:I disagree with the poster above (no hard feelings Z3ro :) ) .

No worries. I set out to write my post telling him how he should stick with what he got this year, and I sort of rationalized myself out of it halfway through. :lol:

Wooster33
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby Wooster33 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:34 pm

I would just go to Michigan. But it's your life.

coulduhelpplz
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby coulduhelpplz » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:39 pm

Z3RO wrote:Unless you're amazing, 45k at Mich is gold.

It still couldn't hurt to wait a year. Legal market is shit at the moment, and it doesn't look like it's getting much better. If you want to put off 2L interviews for one more fiscal year, it might not be a bad idea.

That said, don't expect a ton more $$ or better schools the second time around. Every year is a 'record year' in the business of law school applications.

*Edit* I'm an 0L.


a) I was planning on retaking the LSAT. Mich, for example, is pretty straightforward in terms of LSAT score vs. $$. I love the school, more than any other. Just knowing that I'll be $150k in the hole is destroying me.

b) I like comments from 0Ls just as much as 3Ls. Knowing that other 0Ls are thinking this might help me out.

coulduhelpplz
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby coulduhelpplz » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:40 pm

neimanmarxist wrote:I disagree with the poster above (no hard feelings Z3ro :) ) .

I am also a 0 L

Truthfully I think your chances of ending up above median at Michigan and landing a job that can pay your loans and the rent are better than (anyone's) chances of getting HYS in the next round . Don't bank on an LSAT score you don't have yet. Each successive cycle is wont to be more competitive than the last as the economy declines, the test prep companies get bigger, and students get wiser as to what it takes to make it into a good school. It costs something like $1000 to apply to 20 schools unless you qualify for a lot of fee waivers. If you're re-prepping for the LSAT, the total cost of that endeavor adds up quickly (don't I know it) . And don't forget the opportunity cost of starting to work as a lawyer a full year later.

Go to one of your T14s, work your butt off, and try and hit the median. If you do fabulously, apply to transfer. If you do okay, take marketable courses, do as well as you can, network , consider secondary markets, and get a job. When you get your job, live responsibly, and pay your loans. People are still getting hired out of these places. The sky is not falling. And the chances that it will are about as good as your (anyone's) hypothetical chance at making it into Super Dream School next cycle.


Though I do sort of feel like the sky is falling, I'm not so much worried about that.

I'm more thinking that I would like more money out of Mich (I don't want or need HYSCC). It seems crazy to me that we'll pay 150,000+ just to hunt down scraps in the legal market... 60,000/year, or whatever. I know what type of law I want to do and Mich can help me get there. I'm just at the age (28) where having a family is getting more and more important. Being stuck with crippling debt if I don't work 160 hours a week ist absolute scheisser.

09042014
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby 09042014 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:45 pm

coulduhelpplz wrote:
Z3RO wrote:Unless you're amazing, 45k at Mich is gold.

It still couldn't hurt to wait a year. Legal market is shit at the moment, and it doesn't look like it's getting much better. If you want to put off 2L interviews for one more fiscal year, it might not be a bad idea.

That said, don't expect a ton more $$ or better schools the second time around. Every year is a 'record year' in the business of law school applications.

*Edit* I'm an 0L.


a) I was planning on retaking the LSAT. Mich, for example, is pretty straightforward in terms of LSAT score vs. $$. I love the school, more than any other. Just knowing that I'll be $150k in the hole is destroying me.

b) I like comments from 0Ls just as much as 3Ls. Knowing that other 0Ls are thinking this might help me out.


LSAT is big in determining money, but so is GPA. What is your GPA. You may have nearly maxed out your scholarship potential because of your GPA.

But if your GPA is really high, why not sit the cycle out, try for a better LSAT. Law school will be here in a year or two.

coulduhelpplz
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby coulduhelpplz » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:58 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
coulduhelpplz wrote:
Z3RO wrote:Unless you're amazing, 45k at Mich is gold.

It still couldn't hurt to wait a year. Legal market is shit at the moment, and it doesn't look like it's getting much better. If you want to put off 2L interviews for one more fiscal year, it might not be a bad idea.

That said, don't expect a ton more $$ or better schools the second time around. Every year is a 'record year' in the business of law school applications.

*Edit* I'm an 0L.


a) I was planning on retaking the LSAT. Mich, for example, is pretty straightforward in terms of LSAT score vs. $$. I love the school, more than any other. Just knowing that I'll be $150k in the hole is destroying me.

b) I like comments from 0Ls just as much as 3Ls. Knowing that other 0Ls are thinking this might help me out.


LSAT is big in determining money, but so is GPA. What is your GPA. You may have nearly maxed out your scholarship potential because of your GPA.

But if your GPA is really high, why not sit the cycle out, try for a better LSAT. Law school will be here in a year or two.


It's not, but it's not bad. 3.79.

It's not totally the idea of debt that's hindering me (I got money to a lot of 15-20, some full rides). It's that you have to be in the top 15 schools if you want to do what I would like to (energy law, nuclear energy, government position -- ideal, of course, is DOE GC).

Is this a horrible idea:
- go to one of the higher ranked schools I got into,
- see how well I do after .5L, and
- cut my loses at 20k if I don't place above median (leave after 1st semester grades)?

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Dany
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby Dany » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:58 pm

If you sit out a cycle (or two), you could get a decent job in whatever field your UG degree is in, save as much money as possible to use for law school, which will put you in better shape financially. Work experience certainly doesn't hurt an application, and you'll have a while to prep for a better LSAT score - if you think you can up your current score by a few points.

MidlawMyth
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby MidlawMyth » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:02 pm

If $45K at Michigan isn't enough to get you to go to law school, why did you go through the charade of the application process? Unless you are a 3.9/178, that's at the top of the range that almost anyone gets.

09042014
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby 09042014 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:02 pm

coulduhelpplz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
coulduhelpplz wrote:
Z3RO wrote:Unless you're amazing, 45k at Mich is gold.

It still couldn't hurt to wait a year. Legal market is shit at the moment, and it doesn't look like it's getting much better. If you want to put off 2L interviews for one more fiscal year, it might not be a bad idea.

That said, don't expect a ton more $$ or better schools the second time around. Every year is a 'record year' in the business of law school applications.

*Edit* I'm an 0L.


a) I was planning on retaking the LSAT. Mich, for example, is pretty straightforward in terms of LSAT score vs. $$. I love the school, more than any other. Just knowing that I'll be $150k in the hole is destroying me.

b) I like comments from 0Ls just as much as 3Ls. Knowing that other 0Ls are thinking this might help me out.


LSAT is big in determining money, but so is GPA. What is your GPA. You may have nearly maxed out your scholarship potential because of your GPA.

But if your GPA is really high, why not sit the cycle out, try for a better LSAT. Law school will be here in a year or two.


It's not, but it's not bad. 3.79.

It's not totally the idea of debt that's hindering me (I got money to a lot of 15-20, some full rides). It's that you have to be in the top 15 schools if you want to do what I would like to (energy law, nuclear energy, government position -- ideal, of course, is DOE GC).

Is this a horrible idea:
- go to one of the higher ranked schools I got into,
- see how well I do after .5L, and
- cut my loses at 20k if I don't place above median (leave after 1st semester grades)?


Well its good enough that an better lsat might give you more money.

What is your LSAT right now?

How well did your test day performance match your LSAT practice average?

How much practice did you do?

How many Pratice tests do you have left?

Can you realistically see yourself doing better on the LSAT?

Your plan sounds like a bad one.

coulduhelpplz
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby coulduhelpplz » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:27 pm

Desert Fox wrote:What is your LSAT right now?

169
Desert Fox wrote:How well did your test day performance match your LSAT practice average?

PTing at 171-174
Desert Fox wrote:How much practice did you do?

2-4 PTs a week for 2 months prior. One (near worthless) prep class. A few pages of the Bibles.
Desert Fox wrote:How many Pratice tests do you have left?

I think 20
Desert Fox wrote:Can you realistically see yourself doing better on the LSAT?

Yes. But no more than 173, probably.
Desert Fox wrote:Your plan sounds like a bad one.

Ok.

09042014
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby 09042014 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:36 pm

If you can get a higher LSAT172+, you've got somewhat of a chance of getting a 135K scholarship from northwestern. You'll like get 1/2 or less at the lower t14, and maybe 1/4-1/3 tution at middlish t14.

If I were you I'd take Michigan. It's a great school. If you do horrible then drop out.

Wooster33
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby Wooster33 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:44 am

You ought to attend Michigan this year.

Let's do the math. Let's say you land 100K more in scholly money. Even if you do manage this, which is no certain thing, you have given up a year of earnings. If you get big law, that's 160K plus bonuses less taxes. You do the math of what sort of net income you are giving up by delaying your career a year. Do you want to delay your career, lose the opportunity cost in dollars and in career advancement for the chance of getting more scholarship money or attending a better school?

Although I do understand your position, and waiting a year might benefit you, I really do think taking Michigan and the 45K now is what you ought to do.

Bottom line: Don't wait if you want more scholarship money, but possibly take the risk if you want a HYS acceptance and it means that much to you.

In any case, best of luck to you.

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TCScrutinizer
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby TCScrutinizer » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:21 am

Why would someone so afraid of six-figure debt even apply to law school in the first place? Do you really expect the world to just hand you money? Do you really only take freerolls, or do you make calculated risks?

You're into a T14, with $. You're already making a safer bet than 95% of students entering law school this year. If that kind of risk is too rich for your blood, you need to consider a career with less pressure, because life in biglaw is going to make you jump out of a fucking window.

khanvalescent
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby khanvalescent » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:29 am

You will be accruing a moderate amount of debt from a great school. There are much worse scenarios to find yourself in.

Go to Michigan this year.

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kurla88
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby kurla88 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:55 am

I have to agree with everyone else and say take the money at Michigan and run. With a 169/3.79, I think you're lucky to have gotten the 45K offer at Michigan.

Among other things, the economy is temporary. And even "ITE", it's hardly like Michigan grads are all homeless. Anecdotally, I think at least 50-60% are still getting biglaw, and the rest are finding decent alternative employment (either by choice or forced to... not clear). It's a t-10 school, no matter what. :/

Here's a thought though - deposit at Michigan, and retake the LSAT in June. If you do a lot better, withdraw and reapply to the t-14 next year. You probably won't get into Michigan again, but good shot at everywhere else.

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MURPH
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby MURPH » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:05 am

Choice A: spend the next 6 weeks prepping for the June test. And ask for scholarship money from all of your waitlist and acceptances if you do better.
Choice B: Begin preparing for 1L now - LEEWS, E&E, maybe a week long prep course, etc Be ahead of the curve at Mich in Sept. Ask for more money at the end of 1L when you can threaten to transfer.
Choice C: Dropping out. repeat cycle and face the same options a year from now when the economy could be better, the same or worse.

Choices A and B seem reasonable (and not mutually exclusive). Choice C seems masochistic.

keg411
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby keg411 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:42 am

Why not plan on Michigan but take the June LSAT anyway? If you do significantly better, you can reapply (think mid 170's). If not, you have a great school with a nice scholarship that will serve you fine, even ITE. Even if you reapply even with a slightly better LSAT (170-171-172) there is no guarantee at all that you will have a better cycle next year.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:40 am

MURPH wrote:Be ahead of the curve at Mich in Sept. Ask for more money at the end of 1L when you can threaten to transfer.

Just for the record, there's nothing you can't really do at Michigan if you are in a good enough spot to transfer that you could do elsewhere. Except, of course, for increase your chance at a SCOTUS clerkship at YLS, but even then - you're shooting for about a 2-3% chance per year (I made up that math, btw - sorry).

If you have high enough grades, your doors here are open, whether that's to transferring or to a fantastic career out of Michigan.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:49 am


yourdadcalled
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby yourdadcalled » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:19 pm

kurla88 wrote:I have to agree with everyone else and say take the money at Michigan and run. With a 169/3.79, I think you're lucky to have gotten the 45K offer at Michigan.


yup

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gymboree
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby gymboree » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:46 pm

The point's been made, but hasn't received enough attention. If you defer going to ls by 1 year, that's 1 year later you'll be practicing as a lawyer -- and therefore getting that salary, whatever it is. It seems you're concerned that salary won't be high enough. Let's pretend that no matter where you go, you get a pretty low starting salary: $60k. However, even if it's only $60,000 that's an additional $20,000/year for each year of law school, thus increasing your scholarship to $65k/year in a sense. Now, could you do that much better by reapplying? Even with a 171? That's highly unlikely. Sure, with a 175+ but, again, that's unlikely.

I gather that you would be applying to many of the same schools (the T14) and they will have seen your application before. It sounds like you wrote a nice one this cycle. But you'll have to start fresh, write a new PS (will it be better or worse than this cycle: unknown), gather at least an additional LOR (another unknown).

The variable and opportunity cost to reapply are too high.

Go to Michigan. Suck it up.

edit: grammar

motiontodismiss
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Re: Giving up this cycle.

Postby motiontodismiss » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:34 pm

You got into Mich with money and you want to try again? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Unless you bombed the LSAT, applied in february, and wrote your essays in crayon, I don't see how you can't do any better.




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