BP decides where you go to law school

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JWicker10
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby JWicker10 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:28 pm

I posted a few minutes ago about NYU (50K) v. Columbia (sticker) v. UCLA (60k, in state)


Just to clarify, I do want to work in LA BigLaw after. I'm from Southern California and did my undergrad in So Cal as well. Additionally, I'm financing a legal education completely on my own, so expense is a pretty large consideration--though, not everything.

Thoughts?

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IAFG
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby IAFG » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:32 pm

nearly everyone is financing their own LS here, so that was assumed. i would pressure UCLA for more money if that is something you think might suit you better.

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Jericwithers
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Jericwithers » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:40 pm

JWicker10 wrote:I posted a few minutes ago about NYU (50K) v. Columbia (sticker) v. UCLA (60k, in state)


Just to clarify, I do want to work in LA BigLaw after. I'm from Southern California and did my undergrad in So Cal as well. Additionally, I'm financing a legal education completely on my own, so expense is a pretty large consideration--though, not everything.

Thoughts?


California is NYU's 2nd largest market (66% NY, 12% Cali, 8% DC, 2% MA and increasingly smaller from there), and for only $10k more I see NYU as a great choice (except for the weather).

riotide
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby riotide » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:43 pm

Stetson vs. Miami
I got into Stetson almost immediately and after being deferred from Miami I accepted my invitation to attend Stetson Law. Miami would not guarantee getting back to me until April 30th. A couple days ago I was accepted to Miami. I love the Tampa/St. Pete area, and would prefer to practice/live in central Florida over the Miami area. Is Miami Law significantly better to the point where it would be stupid for me to choose Stetson instead considering I will be paying sticker at either one? My family lives in Tampa, and if I go to Stetson I could live with my brother in St. Pete, while also staying close to my family. These factors have me leaning towards Stetson, but I do not want to hurt my future endeavors if Miami would make things better for me.

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existenz
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby existenz » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:00 am

riotide wrote:Stetson vs. Miami
I got into Stetson almost immediately and after being deferred from Miami I accepted my invitation to attend Stetson Law. Miami would not guarantee getting back to me until April 30th. A couple days ago I was accepted to Miami. I love the Tampa/St. Pete area, and would prefer to practice/live in central Florida over the Miami area. Is Miami Law significantly better to the point where it would be stupid for me to choose Stetson instead considering I will be paying sticker at either one? My family lives in Tampa, and if I go to Stetson I could live with my brother in St. Pete, while also staying close to my family. These factors have me leaning towards Stetson, but I do not want to hurt my future endeavors if Miami would make things better for me.

Any chance you can use the Miami acceptance to get some scholarship money from Stetson?

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lt0826
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby lt0826 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:47 am

cLams wrote:
IAFG wrote:
cLams wrote:UofA- 24K
ASU- 10K
Utah- 14K
Davis- sticker (IF I get in)

Would like to clerk, no interest in BigLaw.

what do you want to do then, and where


Human Rights law most likely with an emphasis on indigenous affairs (internationally and domestic). Would prefer west coast or D.C.


Not sure if you made your choice but UofA has James Anaya who is THE goto guy for indigenous law and human rights in relation to indigenous peoples. So I would say UofA if that is your interest.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby D. H2Oman » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:15 pm

Go on, go on, come on leave me breathless
Tempt me, tease me until I can't deny this

BUMP

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thecubiclelife
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby thecubiclelife » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:29 pm

I already posted my dilemma here. I'm just delaying my decision for as long as possible.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby D. H2Oman » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:36 pm

thecubiclelife wrote:All right, it's crunch time. I know there's another Duke vs. Northwestern thread out there, but I wanted to address my specific preferences and see what happens.

About me:
--Two years work experience
--Fields: Bankruptcy, Securities Regulation...let's just say corporate.
--Placement: CA > Warm locations >>>>> Everywhere else
--I really like warm weather...
--But I really like big cities.
--I feel more comfortable in diverse classes...
--But boyfriend will be living in NYC. (i.e. Northwestern will be in a different time zone)

Thoughts?


Goal is California? First question, what happen to UCLA/USC?

KraftEZ
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby KraftEZ » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:39 pm

Sent my deposit in for both Oregon and L&C.

I have my sights already set on L&C.

No scholarship at L&C though and $4000 annual renewable scholarship at Oregon.

See myself working in the Portland Metro area after graduation.

Oregon with the scholarship (and in-state tuition) is half the cost of L&C.

Do I go to the better school or the cheaper one?

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D. H2Oman
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby D. H2Oman » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

KraftEZ wrote:Sent my deposit in for both Oregon and L&C.

I have my sights already set on L&C.

No scholarship at L&C though and $4000 annual renewable scholarship at Oregon.

See myself working in the Portland Metro area after graduation.

Oregon with the scholarship (and in-state tuition) is half the cost of L&C.

Do I go to the better school or the cheaper one?



Cheaper one without question. For all practical purposes, you can't really claim Lewis an Clark is a better school. USNEWS 64 vs USNEWS 80 is meaningless. (even in the same market)

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IAFG
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby IAFG » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:28 am

KraftEZ wrote:Sent my deposit in for both Oregon and L&C.

I have my sights already set on L&C.

No scholarship at L&C though and $4000 annual renewable scholarship at Oregon.

See myself working in the Portland Metro area after graduation.

Oregon with the scholarship (and in-state tuition) is half the cost of L&C.

Do I go to the better school or the cheaper one?

to do what and where? L&C certainly has the better reputation but there really aren't firm jobs for grads from either school, so... plan?

APimpNamedSlickback
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.

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:31 am

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Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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flyingpanda
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby flyingpanda » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:32 am

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:new rule:

if you are deciding between schools outside of, say, the top 20, also justify why exactly you're going to law school. in addition, discuss what your best alternative to law school might be.


Elitist.

APimpNamedSlickback
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Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:39 am

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Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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flyingpanda
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby flyingpanda » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:45 am

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:
aznflyingpanda wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:new rule:

if you are deciding between schools outside of, say, the top 20, also justify why exactly you're going to law school. in addition, discuss what your best alternative to law school might be.


Elitist.


http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/11/13/mam ... b/article/

This essay treats a legal education as an investment, and asks the question of whether, based on known costs and expected benefits, such investment should be undertaken. The inquiry will necessarily differ from one potential law student to another. But for three posited “typical students,” the investment is shown to be a bad one.


Not saying that article isn't fair, but this thread is meant for people choosing between schools. We're not parents, any prospective student posting here should already have done a fair amount of his/her homework on what going to law school entails.

APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:48 am

people also shouldn't drink and drive. just because they decide to doesn't make it anymore of a fruitful enterprise to help them choose between vodka and gin before doing so.

assuming that people have already done their research, and furthermore have arrived at the right choice after having done so, is stupid. it probably makes sense to tell people to forget law whenever the circumstances warrant. doesn't mean we're being paternalistic.

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flyingpanda
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby flyingpanda » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:57 am

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:people also shouldn't drink and drive. just because they decide to doesn't make it anymore of a fruitful enterprise to help them choose between vodka and gin before doing so.

assuming that people have already done their research, and furthermore have arrived at the right choice after having done so, is stupid. it probably makes sense to tell people to forget law whenever the circumstances warrant. doesn't mean we're being paternalistic.


I'm surprised you care enough to warn people away from law school. Just trying to keep more jobs for yourself?

KraftEZ
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby KraftEZ » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:54 pm

I entered law school because of my interest in environmental law. I spent a lot of time in undergrad studying climate change.

But I know from experience that once I enter law school and go through the motions that may change and so its a bit open for me. But for now environmental law is what I was looking at.

My best alternative was preparing for an MBA since I did well on the GMATs, but not well enough to be admitted to the top 10-15 MBA schools (outside chance; reach).

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NayBoer
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby NayBoer » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:20 pm

It's sort of difficult to judge the employment prospects of a second-tier JD in a notoriously oversaturated region practicing an exotic and desirable specialty. I'd assume it's not great. This is obscure enough that you probably need to do a lot of the research legwork on your own.

First impression: I'd go with dh2o and lean towards the cheaper school. Or neither.

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SaintClarence27
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby SaintClarence27 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:56 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:
aznflyingpanda wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:new rule:

if you are deciding between schools outside of, say, the top 20, also justify why exactly you're going to law school. in addition, discuss what your best alternative to law school might be.


Elitist.


http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/11/13/mam ... b/article/

This essay treats a legal education as an investment, and asks the question of whether, based on known costs and expected benefits, such investment should be undertaken. The inquiry will necessarily differ from one potential law student to another. But for three posited “typical students,” the investment is shown to be a bad one.


I just HAD to post a quote from the comments section of a linked site. It makes some of us doomsdayers look like idealistic hippies:

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... tment.html

Posted by: Salazar | Nov 11, 2009 9:09:37 PM

The message behind this is correct (if you run the numbers, law school is a massive fraud). The numbers are dubious though and you don't go far enough to connect the dots.

First, you dramatically overstate undergraduate salaries. Half of recent graduates are unemployed, and half of those employed are working at jobs that do not require a college degree. Even before the economy turned, a very large percentage of grads made $25k-$35k. Relying on those salary surveys that claim a $50K+ national average for recent grads is just as dubious as relying on TTTulane's $140k median law salary. The discount rates are also absurd. Only a present-time-oriented inner city thug would have a time preference for consumption high enough to justify 18% or 26%.

The second problem is that you stop too soon by only calculating the required legal salary, when that salary should have been compared to actual legal salaries to definitively show that law school is generally a bad choice. The majority of JD's awarded do not increase earning power. This was true even in good economic times, with the majority of students from bad law schools (and incidentally, most law schools are bad) unable to get jobs as practicing lawyers. Of the total law school population, perhaps 10% realized a solid ROI. Now that percentage is cut in half or worse because of layoffs, no-offers, and greatly reduced hiring. The job prospects available to me coming out of a Top 15 school ranked in the top quarter are absolutely embarrassing. How does $50k/yr for 2600 billables at an insurance defense sweatshop sound? I can get a job with humane hours paying almost that much with just my undergrad degree.

Lastly, the "expected 35-year legal career" is a ridiculous assumption. Most of your "also-rans" are looking at a 0 year legal career. The number of washouts is pretty high even among top students at top schools.

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ReelectClayDavis
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby ReelectClayDavis » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:50 am

Posting this for a friend:

Friend has a 3.7/177. 177 is from a retake during the cycle, up from an original 171.

This cycle, got CCN with no $. Should friend go to one of CCN, or reapply next cycle and try for HYS (friend didn’t apply to any of these this year)?

Friend wants to stay out east, may want to clerk after school, but probably wants good public sector work.
Thoughts?

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SaintClarence27
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby SaintClarence27 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:27 am

ReelectClayDavis wrote:Posting this for a friend:

Friend has a 3.7/177. 177 is from a retake during the cycle, up from an original 171.

This cycle, got CCN with no $. Should friend go to one of CCN, or reapply next cycle and try for HYS (friend didn’t apply to any of these this year)?

Friend wants to stay out east, may want to clerk after school, but probably wants good public sector work.
Thoughts?


I would think those numbers could get $ at CCN, so friend should consider whether the opportunity costs outweigh the potential scholarship money. I don't think it's worth it to wait on HYS, as you can never be sure about those.

09042014
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:58 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
ReelectClayDavis wrote:Posting this for a friend:

Friend has a 3.7/177. 177 is from a retake during the cycle, up from an original 171.

This cycle, got CCN with no $. Should friend go to one of CCN, or reapply next cycle and try for HYS (friend didn’t apply to any of these this year)?

Friend wants to stay out east, may want to clerk after school, but probably wants good public sector work.
Thoughts?


If your friend has something decent to do with one year - a job, good volunteering opportunity, teach for america, wtf-ever - then reapply.


Man, even waiting tables trying to fuck waitresses would be fine.

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IAFG
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby IAFG » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:58 pm

ReelectClayDavis wrote:Posting this for a friend:

Friend has a 3.7/177. 177 is from a retake during the cycle, up from an original 171.

This cycle, got CCN with no $. Should friend go to one of CCN, or reapply next cycle and try for HYS (friend didn’t apply to any of these this year)?

Friend wants to stay out east, may want to clerk after school, but probably wants good public sector work.
Thoughts?

when did he send out apps? re-cycling is only so helpful for people who applied early




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