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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:25 am
by 09042014
calicocat wrote:Why don't I know about this thread?


UIUC

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:04 am
by parker09
Already made a really wordy thread about this (shameless plug: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115253) and everyone's telling me it's a no-brainer, but why not:

Columbia with $37.5k (total cost approx. $180k)
Michigan with $45k (total cost approx. $150k)
(Chicago with $0, total cost approx. >$200k)

Interested in eventually doing international public interest or criminal jobs (UN would be great; smaller organizations also fine). However, given that lots of international higher-profile NGOs don't hire straight out of law school, would like a few years at a big-city (not necessarily NYC) law firm post-graduation. Definitely open to clerking if my grades end up working out. Reasons I'm really considering Michigan: quieter and more pleasant environment (as compared to how I imagine Columbia will be a lot like my HYP undergrad), lower cost of living, and of course the (slight) $ difference.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:29 am
by 09042014
parker09 wrote:Already made a really wordy thread about this (shameless plug: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115253) and everyone's telling me it's a no-brainer, but why not:

Columbia with $37.5k (total cost approx. $180k)
Michigan with $45k (total cost approx. $150k)
(Chicago with $0, total cost approx. >$200k)

Interested in eventually doing international public interest or criminal jobs (UN would be great; smaller organizations also fine). However, given that lots of international higher-profile NGOs don't hire straight out of law school, would like a few years at a big-city (not necessarily NYC) law firm post-graduation. Definitely open to clerking if my grades end up working out. Reasons I'm really considering Michigan: quieter and more pleasant environment (as compared to how I imagine Columbia will be a lot like my HYP undergrad), lower cost of living, and of course the (slight) $ difference.


Columbia opens the doors to a lot of elite big law firms, which is where you want to work at if you want to lateral into high profile NGOs.

Columbia, this isn't even a hard choice.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:31 am
by Helmholtz
Desert Fox wrote:
parker09 wrote:Already made a really wordy thread about this (shameless plug: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115253) and everyone's telling me it's a no-brainer, but why not:

Columbia with $37.5k (total cost approx. $180k)
Michigan with $45k (total cost approx. $150k)
(Chicago with $0, total cost approx. >$200k)

Interested in eventually doing international public interest or criminal jobs (UN would be great; smaller organizations also fine). However, given that lots of international higher-profile NGOs don't hire straight out of law school, would like a few years at a big-city (not necessarily NYC) law firm post-graduation. Definitely open to clerking if my grades end up working out. Reasons I'm really considering Michigan: quieter and more pleasant environment (as compared to how I imagine Columbia will be a lot like my HYP undergrad), lower cost of living, and of course the (slight) $ difference.


Columbia, this isn't even a hard choice.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:34 am
by existenz
violinst wrote:What about the friend who went to Yale (Law, I presume)?

My Yalie friend works at a midlaw firm. He got the job a few years back before the economy went to shit.

The guy from UVa probably should have kept his Skadden job for a while longer, at least to pay down student debts. He chose the exact wrong time to re-enter the job market.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:52 pm
by parker09
Helmholtz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Columbia, this isn't even a hard choice.

Yeah... somehow I'd built it up in my head as being about even between the two, because I'm deathly afraid of debt, and wanted to be "happy." But yeah, now it seems sort of obvious.

But, just cause this is kind of fun: what about Columbia vs. Chicago (at about $20k more)?

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:10 pm
by legalease9
Yep Still Columbia

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:13 pm
by legalease9
Old Question New Numbers.

Vanderbilt: 145k including COL

University of Washington: 80K including COL

Live in Washington, Really liked Vanderbilt Campus and UW campus. Would be happy in Pac NW but don't really know what or where I want to practice. Thoughts?

Edit: Don't want to practice in midwest or South.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:34 pm
by Helmholtz
legalease9 wrote:Yep Still Columbia

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:40 pm
by IAFG
legalease9 wrote:Old Question New Numbers.

Vanderbilt: 145k including COL

University of Washington: 80K including COL

Live in Washington, Really liked Vanderbilt Campus and UW campus. Would be happy in Pac NW but don't really know what or where I want to practice. Thoughts?

Edit: Don't want to practice in midwest or South.

yeah UW is probably the way to go

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:43 pm
by Helmholtz
legalease9 wrote:Old Question New Numbers.

Vanderbilt: 145k including COL

University of Washington: 80K including COL

Live in Washington, Really liked Vanderbilt Campus and UW campus. Would be happy in Pac NW but don't really know what or where I want to practice. Thoughts?

Edit: Don't want to practice in midwest or South.


I'm leaning towards UWash here. Not wanting to practice in the South puts a damper on Vandy.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:47 pm
by parker09
Nightrunner wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
legalease9 wrote:Yep Still Columbia


Okay, okay, I get it :P Thx!

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:44 pm
by calicocat
Desert Fox wrote:
calicocat wrote:
aznflyingpanda wrote:
calicocat wrote:Why don't I know about this thread?


You've already decided your school, are you here to pitch in?

Yeah that's what I meant. Has my BP membership been revoked or something?


Dude we were pretty upfront about No Corneilians.

God, you're an asshole.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:47 pm
by 09042014
calicocat wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
calicocat wrote:
aznflyingpanda wrote:
You've already decided your school, are you here to pitch in?

Yeah that's what I meant. Has my BP membership been revoked or something?


Dude we were pretty upfront about No Corneilians.

God, you're an asshole.


Calling me God outside the bedroom is a little embarrassing luv.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:58 pm
by calicocat
Desert Fox wrote:
calicocat wrote:God, you're an asshole.


Calling me God outside the bedroom is a little embarrassing luv.

K I'll keep it there from now on ;)

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:24 pm
by rhapsodyinazul
How about this one:

Penn $45k
Cornell $120k
Duke $75k

Which translates to ~COA:

Penn $151k
Cornell $89k
Duke: $119k

No real geographic preference, might like to come back to PNW. I like both city life and outdoor sports. Looking for high paying job, but not ruling out PI. Are the increased career prospects at Penn(or Duke) worth the extra money?

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:30 pm
by Helmholtz
rhapsodyinazul wrote:How about this one:

Penn $45k
Cornell $120k
Duke $75k

Which translates to ~COA:

Penn $151k
Cornell $89k
Duke: $119k

No real geographic preference, might like to come back to PNW. I like both city life and outdoor sports. Looking for high paying job, but not ruling out PI. Are the increased career prospects at Penn(or Duke) worth the extra money?


I would go with Penn.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:34 pm
by 09042014
Helmholtz wrote:
rhapsodyinazul wrote:How about this one:

Penn $45k
Cornell $120k
Duke $75k

Which translates to ~COA:

Penn $151k
Cornell $89k
Duke: $119k

No real geographic preference, might like to come back to PNW. I like both city life and outdoor sports. Looking for high paying job, but not ruling out PI. Are the increased career prospects at Penn(or Duke) worth the extra money?


I would go with Penn.


Penn? Would be my last choice of the three. Cornell got hit pretty hard by the economy, but usually places as well as these three. Before this economy they were peers, and I'd take Cornell.

But this year I might take Duke. It's a bit safer than Cornell because its power in the South.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:44 pm
by Helmholtz
Desert Fox wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
rhapsodyinazul wrote:How about this one:

Penn $45k
Cornell $120k
Duke $75k

Which translates to ~COA:

Penn $151k
Cornell $89k
Duke: $119k

No real geographic preference, might like to come back to PNW. I like both city life and outdoor sports. Looking for high paying job, but not ruling out PI. Are the increased career prospects at Penn(or Duke) worth the extra money?


I would go with Penn.


Penn? Would be my last choice of the three. Cornell got hit pretty hard by the economy, but usually places as well as these three. Before this economy they were peers, and I'd take Cornell.

But this year I might take Duke. It's a bit safer than Cornell because its power in the South.


Penn has always been better in biglaw placement than Cornell, even when times were great. And when it comes to the top clerkships, it's not even a contest. Also, would like to know how much the poster likes city life and how he would feel about living in the middle of nowhere for a few years.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:50 pm
by 09042014
Desert Fox wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
rhapsodyinazul wrote:How about this one:

Penn $45k
Cornell $120k
Duke $75k

Which translates to ~COA:

Penn $151k
Cornell $89k
Duke: $119k

No real geographic preference, might like to come back to PNW. I like both city life and outdoor sports. Looking for high paying job, but not ruling out PI. Are the increased career prospects at Penn(or Duke) worth the extra money?


I would go with Penn.


Penn? Would be my last choice of the three. Cornell got hit pretty hard by the economy, but usually places as well as these three. Before this economy they were peers, and I'd take Cornell.

But this year I might take Duke. It's a bit safer than Cornell because its power in the South.


Even when times were good, Cornell did not place as much into biglaw as Duke or Penn, and Cornell typically has a fraction of the top clerkships as compared to Duke or Penn. I would also like to know how much he likes city life and how happy he would be living in the middle of nowhere for a few years.


It was pretty damn close. Penn = Cornell + 5% = Duke +5%

IMO the slightly degraded job outlook is was 60K. I think Duke is the right choice. It does well in clerking, nlj250, and v100. Small class sizes that don't rely on NYC for placement are the TCR ITE.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
The data for the NLJ 250 for 2008 hiring came out today. Comparison between 2007 and 2008:

Image Image

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:55 pm
by existenz
rhapsodyinazul wrote:How about this one:

Penn $45k
Cornell $120k
Duke $75k

Which translates to ~COA:

Penn $151k
Cornell $89k
Duke: $119k

No real geographic preference, might like to come back to PNW. I like both city life and outdoor sports. Looking for high paying job, but not ruling out PI. Are the increased career prospects at Penn(or Duke) worth the extra money?

Take Cornell and that money and don't look back.

Edit: Well, wait, I see the COA is not very different between Cornell and Duke. Whichever one you like more I'd say.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:56 pm
by rhapsodyinazul
Helmholtz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
rhapsodyinazul wrote:How about this one:

Penn $45k
Cornell $120k
Duke $75k

Which translates to ~COA:

Penn $151k
Cornell $89k
Duke: $119k

No real geographic preference, might like to come back to PNW. I like both city life and outdoor sports. Looking for high paying job, but not ruling out PI. Are the increased career prospects at Penn(or Duke) worth the extra money?


I would go with Penn.


Penn? Would be my last choice of the three. Cornell got hit pretty hard by the economy, but usually places as well as these three. Before this economy they were peers, and I'd take Cornell.

But this year I might take Duke. It's a bit safer than Cornell because its power in the South.


Penn has always been better in biglaw placement than Cornell, even when times were great. And when it comes to the top clerkships, it's not even a contest. Also, would like to know how much the poster likes city life and how he would feel about living in the middle of nowhere for a few years.


Lived in Seattle ever since I was born, so I'm pretty used to city life, though I wouldn't call U-District in Seattle the most busy section of the city. Just got back from a visit to Cornell, though, and I really liked how beautiful it was, but I suppose the concern is always there if Ithaca is too small.

Bottom line, I liked both Philly and Ithaca during my visit. Don't know if I'd place one location over the other. Both had pros that I think I could learn to like (or at least cope with).

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:01 pm
by Helmholtz
Desert Fox wrote:It was pretty damn close. Penn = Cornell + 5% = Duke +5%

IMO the slightly degraded job outlook is was 60K. I think Duke is the right choice. It does well in clerking, nlj250, and v100. Small class sizes that don't rely on NYC for placement are the TCR ITE.

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html
The data for the NLJ 250 for 2008 hiring came out today. Comparison between 2007 and 2008:


The 5.7% between Penn and Cornell is the closest I can recall in recent years, I think it tends to hang around the 8% range. Still think Penn is the best choice here, especially when you consider the top clerkships, but I can see Duke if the poster has a better feel there than Penn. Cornell has the high NLJ250 placement in large part because they send so many of their students into private practice (86% vs. 77% at Penn). Cornell's 2009 class only had 9% head into clerkships while 16.5% of Penn's class got clerkships. Penn typically does very well in COA clerkships, exceptionally more so than Cornell, and it would be difficult to convince me that those clerks couldn't make it into the V100 straight out of graduation.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:53 pm
by LS18
So I made a post about this, but figure I'd ask you all in here.

3.58/173

Duke @ sticker
UIUC w/$100,000
Re-apply

Want to work in the Midwest. Would like big law ideally. Got WL'ed at CCMVP.

Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:55 pm
by flyingpanda
LS18 wrote:So I made a post about this, but figure I'd ask you all in here.

3.58/173

Duke @ sticker
UIUC w/$100,000
Re-apply

Want to work in the Midwest. Would like big law ideally. Got WL'ed at CCMVP.


Did you apply late? What was wrong with your application? You might be prime for a re-app.