BP decides where you go to law school

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09042014
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby 09042014 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:19 pm

violinst wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:Sorry to bother Your Highnesses again:


Michigan... better for your goals, and probably come out close to even with the other schools due to COL too.

TCR, much better school than Cornell, negligible difference in tuition.


Cornell isn't a much better school than Michigan, possibly not even better at all. And definitely not a better school for NYC big law.


Please clarify (Cornell <=> Michigan?). Very interested.

From what I heard and read (various faculty quality rankings by Leiter), the quality of education at Cornell is comparable to that at Michigan, and Cornell may actually be stronger in the corporate/business law area. It definitely has a greater focus on that area (During the Michigan ASW, most of the things I heard were PI related) But Michigan is a solid top-10 and has a (numerically) better student body, which may help attract higher-caliber employers but may also work against my class rank.


Sorry I wrote really poorly. But Cornell places at least as well in NYC as Michigan does, and it probably does better. As for faculty or quality of education I don't know nor care.

I'd be shocked if there are any NYC firms who go to Michigan and not Cornell.
Last edited by 09042014 on Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

awesomepossum
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby awesomepossum » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:22 pm

violinst wrote:Do you mean 4x more newly hires from Michigan?


no. 2L summers. sorry for the lack of clarity.

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Joan Hollaway
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Joan Hollaway » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:29 pm

DF I'm just making up number here but if the top 30% of cornell get NYC biglaw and the top 40% of mich get nyc/chicago/dc biglaw yes Cornell will outperform Mich in NY but a Mich student still has a better chance at getting a NY biglaw job. If Cornell does indeed do better in NYC it is purely selfselection of regions imo.

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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby awesomepossum » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:31 pm

plus we've historically done better in terms of clerkships which eats a portion of the top kids.

09042014
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby 09042014 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:35 pm

Joan Hollaway wrote:DF I'm just making up number here but if the top 30% of cornell get NYC biglaw and the top 40% of mich get nyc/chicago/dc biglaw yes Cornell will outperform Mich in NY but a Mich student still has a better chance at getting a NY biglaw job. If Cornell does indeed do better in NYC it is purely selfselection of regions imo.


Cornell historically places more students in NLJ250 (this year they didn't, because NYC was a shitshow), they historically place better in top firms. A lot of this is because of a small class size.

There really isn't any data that shows Michigan places better than Cornell over all.

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violinst
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby violinst » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:36 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:
violinst wrote:
Joan Hollaway wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:In my opinion, Michigan is a better school. There are some things for which I would choose Cornell over Michigan, and NY BigLaw is one of them. Others will tell you to go to the best school, and there isn't anything wrong with that choice, but personally, I would take the scholarship at Cornell.

playing devils advocate here and i might be totally wrong but heres some food for thought. most cornell student self select into ny big law while michigan students self select into a more diverse group of regions (nyc being first but chicago is a close second). following that logic, michigan students face less competition from their classmates for nyc big law jobs, so OP (and i for that matter :wink: ) has a better chance of getting NYC biglaw from Mich.


This is a valid advice. But I also have to say that I felt right at home during the ASW at Cornell because we, the students, the faculty, and the career service people, all seemed to share the same goal. It may work to my advantage because the entire school is better geared towards BigLaw in NY, like a well-oiled machine. At Michigan, I actually felt a bit ashamed that I didn't have a loftier goal.


i don't think any sort of inferiority with respect to your chosen career path should color your choice of schools. what is there to look down on about biglaw? as a counter-example of sorts to your experience, i'd point out that lots of the people i've met with PI ambitions often strike me as insufferably self-righteous. it might feel good to go to work thinking you are saving the world, but the cold truth of the collective action problem you learn about in econ 101 seems to imply that unless you can get everyone else to follow along with your undoubtedly worth pursuit, one's life of poverty will have pretty much been for naught alot of the time.

on the other hand, i can absolutely see how the skills you'd develop through a few years at a firm would allow you to eventually make a pretty damn substantive contribution to the public good. long story short, try and pick your school based on which would ultimately most efficiently facilitate your goals for afterward rather than some less objective criteria. good luck either way.


Thanks! Yes, the best way to contribute to the society is to be efficient (my econ prof once said that you are either efficient or you are not. Just a side note as to why I don't say "the most efficient") at you do. For me, squeezing every ounce of juice out of BigLaw and then giving back generously is the suitable, pragmatic, and ideal plan. It is also likely to produce better results than most of those idealistic yet impractical PI plans.

santa
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby santa » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:44 pm

Tried this as its own thread, but really no one cares: University of Texas with 7,000 a year scholarship plus in-state tuition vs. full ride at Temple. No interest in practicing in Texas or anywhere in the South; Philadelphia seems nice, but I don't necessarily want to get trapped there. Interested in government work.

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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby awesomepossum » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:45 pm

santa wrote:Tried this as its own thread, but really no one cares: University of Texas with 7,000 a year scholarship plus in-state tuition vs. full ride at Temple. No interest in practicing in Texas or anywhere in the South; Philadelphia seems nice, but I don't necessarily want to get trapped there. Interested in government work.



Texas everyday and twice on Saturday. That's today!

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:47 pm

santa wrote:Tried this as its own thread, but really no one cares: University of Texas with 7,000 a year scholarship plus in-state tuition vs. full ride at Temple. No interest in practicing in Texas or anywhere in the South; Philadelphia seems nice, but I don't necessarily want to get trapped there. Interested in government work.


If you want a job of any kind somewhere I would say Texas.

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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby nbaguy » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:47 pm

.
Last edited by nbaguy on Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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violinst
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby violinst » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:48 pm

santa wrote:Tried this as its own thread, but really no one cares: University of Texas with 7,000 a year scholarship plus in-state tuition vs. full ride at Temple. No interest in practicing in Texas or anywhere in the South; Philadelphia seems nice, but I don't necessarily want to get trapped there. Interested in government work.


Texas. The school is in a different league, and the cost of attending is not that much higher. It's also good for government work. In case you can't get jobs elsewhere, you can always fall back to Texas, which is not bad at all.

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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby awesomepossum » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:49 pm

violinst wrote:
santa wrote:Tried this as its own thread, but really no one cares: University of Texas with 7,000 a year scholarship plus in-state tuition vs. full ride at Temple. No interest in practicing in Texas or anywhere in the South; Philadelphia seems nice, but I don't necessarily want to get trapped there. Interested in government work.


Texas. The school is in a different league, and the cost of attending is not that much higher. It's also good for government work. In case you can't get jobs elsewhere, you can always fall back to Texas, which is not bad at all.



Uh....that's pretty bad. :P But yeah, still Texas.

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violinst
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby violinst » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:49 pm

nbaguy wrote:Duke - graduate w/ 200k debt
Ohio State - graduate w/ 80k debt

From Ohio, Family/SO living in Ohio.


Duke. Your family/SO will appreciate your choice 3 years from today.

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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby awesomepossum » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:51 pm

violinst wrote:
nbaguy wrote:Duke - graduate w/ 200k debt
Ohio State - graduate w/ 80k debt

From Ohio, Family/SO living in Ohio.


Duke. Your family/SO will appreciate your choice 3 years from today.



plus anything with "Ohio" in it is the wrong answer.

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violinst
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby violinst » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:51 pm

awesomepossum wrote:
violinst wrote:
santa wrote:Tried this as its own thread, but really no one cares: University of Texas with 7,000 a year scholarship plus in-state tuition vs. full ride at Temple. No interest in practicing in Texas or anywhere in the South; Philadelphia seems nice, but I don't necessarily want to get trapped there. Interested in government work.


Texas. The school is in a different league, and the cost of attending is not that much higher. It's also good for government work. In case you can't get jobs elsewhere, you can always fall back to Texas, which is not bad at all.



Uh....that's pretty bad. :P But yeah, still Texas.


You do know that you are talking to a Texan (me), right?
Last edited by violinst on Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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98234872348
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:52 pm

santa wrote:Tried this as its own thread, but really no one cares: University of Texas with 7,000 a year scholarship plus in-state tuition vs. full ride at Temple. No interest in practicing in Texas or anywhere in the South; Philadelphia seems nice, but I don't necessarily want to get trapped there. Interested in government work.

How are there no other schools involved in this decision is my primary question.

Texas is the clear and undeniable answer to your question, though.

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violinst
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby violinst » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:54 pm

mistergoft wrote:
santa wrote:Tried this as its own thread, but really no one cares: University of Texas with 7,000 a year scholarship plus in-state tuition vs. full ride at Temple. No interest in practicing in Texas or anywhere in the South; Philadelphia seems nice, but I don't necessarily want to get trapped there. Interested in government work.

How are there no other schools involved in this decision is my primary question.

Texas is the clear and undeniable answer to your question, though.


Is Temple that far off?

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violinst
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby violinst » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:56 pm

awesomepossum wrote:
violinst wrote:
nbaguy wrote:Duke - graduate w/ 200k debt
Ohio State - graduate w/ 80k debt

From Ohio, Family/SO living in Ohio.


Duke. Your family/SO will appreciate your choice 3 years from today.



plus anything with "Ohio" in it is the wrong answer.


Should I say the same about "Michigan"? :mrgreen:

09042014
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby 09042014 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:58 pm

violinst wrote:
awesomepossum wrote:
violinst wrote:
nbaguy wrote:Duke - graduate w/ 200k debt
Ohio State - graduate w/ 80k debt

From Ohio, Family/SO living in Ohio.


Duke. Your family/SO will appreciate your choice 3 years from today.



plus anything with "Ohio" in it is the wrong answer.


Should I say the same about "Michigan"? :mrgreen:


Yea but Michigan places out of state.

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NayBoer
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby NayBoer » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:10 pm

Why would you apply to Texas and Temple if you don't want TX or PA? Texas places over 2/3 locally.

09042014
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby 09042014 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:15 pm

NayBoer wrote:Why would you apply to Texas and Temple if you don't want TX or PA? Texas places over 2/3 locally.


TCR is Texas, and suck it up and live there.

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IAFG
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby IAFG » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:19 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Why would you apply to Texas and Temple if you don't want TX or PA? Texas places over 2/3 locally.


TCR is Texas, and suck it up and live there.

or, not going to LS.

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NayBoer
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby NayBoer » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:20 pm

mdgold wrote:All my family/friends/SO are in NY, so I'd much rather stay in NY. Also, did not love how isolated the GW campus felt
Just saw this. Not really sure what you mean, unless it's "isolated from nightlife." GW law is like 5 or 6 blocks from the White House, and walking distance to State Dept. And it's not really a traditional campus, it's sort of integrated into the city. The main complaint is that it's not isolated enough (like Georgetown or American). But if you mean nightlife, yeah, you need to walk to Georgetown or metro to Chinatown.

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NayBoer
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby NayBoer » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:22 pm

IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Why would you apply to Texas and Temple if you don't want TX or PA? Texas places over 2/3 locally.


TCR is Texas, and suck it up and live there.

or, not going to LS.
Texas is a great choice if living in TX is an option. That's why between Temple and Texas I'd just go get an AA in accounting.

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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby santa » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:51 pm

What is TCR? Applied to Temple because it is cheap and living in Philly seems like it wouldn't be bad (from dc, went to school in ny, now living in the northeast). Texas is the highest ranked school I got into so far, which is why I am interested. I still haven't heard back from UCLA and Cornell, but expecting stone cold rejections. If they wanted me, they would have gotten back to me already.

I'm a commitment-phobe, so the idea of being stuck in the same region as where I went to law school is frightening to me. But I also like freebies.




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