BP decides where you go to law school

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awawa
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby awawa » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:09 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
awawa wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Well if you want a major market, UIUC it is. Though if I were you I'd retake the LSAT and apply next cycle again. Too much risk at those schools.


I am thinking about transferring out after 1L. Taking the LSAT, re-applying is just impractical at this point.


If you get a good enough 1L to transfer you'll have good enough grades to get a job anyway.

Retaking and reapplying is much easier than doing good during 1L.


Agreed. But I don't have time to re-take, plus, I am really bad at the LSAT. I score 176-178 on practice tests regularly (even when I have someone actively monitoring me) but have scored in the mid 160s twice on the real test.

awawa
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby awawa » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:10 pm

romothesavior wrote:
awawa wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:
awawa wrote:Guys, I am not talking about random, shit ass, clown-face law firms. I am confining myself to NLJ250 law-firms based in the respective regions.

Given that clarification, my numbers above are well within reason.



L O L, dude this is not like a fucking bingo tournament at the senior citizens center you don't get to just sign up.


You're a clown, did you know that?

I earn more than 90k right now (plus lotsa benefits). I am not going to law school, spending 150k to earn less than 90k. I want to be a lawyer, which is why I am going to law school. But, I am not going to settle for anything less than my current salary.
I know I can and will do well in law school. I am horrible with the LSAT (which explains the horrible choice), but I have worked with law profs and helped 2 write their papers.

If you set your goal at 50k, you will end up at 30k. Aim higher.


The stupid just flows from you. And there is "lotsa" it.

If you are going to law school to make more than you currently do, you are a moron. You'll probably make less than 70k, whereas staying at your current job you would be well over 100k.

You. Are. Stupid.


Oh man. Yes. I. Is. Stupid. You. Is. Learning. This. Now?

smashedpumpkins
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby smashedpumpkins » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:14 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
smashedpumpkins wrote:CLS with Hamilton (total debt = 10k)

HLS (total debt = 130k)


To be honest, I will never understand anyone who turns down the Hamilton for any but the most compelling personal reasons. Lacking those, take CLS.


Because everyone thinks that they will be doing something super-elite and prestigious, and that something can only be had with HYS.

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romothesavior
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:16 pm

awawa wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
awawa wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:
L O L, dude this is not like a fucking bingo tournament at the senior citizens center you don't get to just sign up.


You're a clown, did you know that?

I earn more than 90k right now (plus lotsa benefits). I am not going to law school, spending 150k to earn less than 90k. I want to be a lawyer, which is why I am going to law school. But, I am not going to settle for anything less than my current salary.
I know I can and will do well in law school. I am horrible with the LSAT (which explains the horrible choice), but I have worked with law profs and helped 2 write their papers.

If you set your goal at 50k, you will end up at 30k. Aim higher.


The stupid just flows from you. And there is "lotsa" it.

If you are going to law school to make more than you currently do, you are a moron. You'll probably make less than 70k, whereas staying at your current job you would be well over 100k.

You. Are. Stupid.


Oh man. Yes. I. Is. Stupid. You. Is. Learning. This. Now?


I'm sorry. I didn't mean what I said. NLJ250 jobs are pretty easy to snag in this economy, and just about everyone at a Top 50 school will get one if they work hard and network. In fact, you seem like the type of person who should be gunning for Wachtell. Shoot for the stars!

You're right, you should quit your near 6-figure job and spend tens of thousands on law school because you will more than likely end up with a 120k+ job upon graduation (probably more like 150-160k). Great financial strategy.

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booboo
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby booboo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:16 pm

I would be petty enough to put Hamilton Scholarship at Columbia University on my resume for OCI.

smashedpumpkins
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby smashedpumpkins » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:19 pm

Nightrunner wrote:Most of those people are delusional, and/or have absolutely no ability to perform cost/benefit.


I'm going to go to CLS, but I don't think the cost-benefit is so straightforward, because one side is essentially unquantifiable. On the high end, HLS could be worth an incalculable amount (think about how much mileage Obama got out being editor of the HLR). For the average person, it's probably not worth that much.


And yes, I will definitely be putting Hamilton (full-tuition scholarship) on my resume.

Edit: Also, if my parents were paying, and all this meant was that I would receive 150k (minus taxes, of course) less as an inheritance in 25 years, I would certainly go to HLS.
Last edited by smashedpumpkins on Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

awawa
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby awawa » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:25 pm

romothesavior wrote:I'm sorry. I didn't mean what I said. NLJ250 jobs are pretty easy to snag in this economy, and just about everyone at a Top 50 school will get one if they work hard and network. In fact, you seem like the type of person who should be gunning for Wachtell. Shoot for the stars!

You're right, you should quit your near 6-figure job and spend tens of thousands on law school because you will more than likely end up with a 120k+ job upon graduation (probably more like 150-160k). Great financial strategy.


Read my post again - I am not going to law school to make more money. I am going to law school because I want to. I have always wanted to.

Repeat: I am not going to law school just so I can make more money. With all the perks and benefits, I am very near 6 figures already, and I would probably be at 120+ in 3-4 years.

The reality is if I can't make more than I am making right now, I am not going to work for a law firm. I might as well just come back to this job.

Simple economics.

Of course, the idea of attending law school is to practice law. Hence, the post on this thread.

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:18 pm

awawa wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I'm sorry. I didn't mean what I said. NLJ250 jobs are pretty easy to snag in this economy, and just about everyone at a Top 50 school will get one if they work hard and network. In fact, you seem like the type of person who should be gunning for Wachtell. Shoot for the stars!

You're right, you should quit your near 6-figure job and spend tens of thousands on law school because you will more than likely end up with a 120k+ job upon graduation (probably more like 150-160k). Great financial strategy.


Read my post again - I am not going to law school to make more money. I am going to law school because I want to. I have always wanted to.

Repeat: I am not going to law school just so I can make more money. With all the perks and benefits, I am very near 6 figures already, and I would probably be at 120+ in 3-4 years.

The reality is if I can't make more than I am making right now, I am not going to work for a law firm. I might as well just come back to this job.

Simple economics.

Of course, the idea of attending law school is to practice law. Hence, the post on this thread.


Dude, leaving your job to pursue your ambition of becoming a lawyer is all fine and good. The point they are making is that in this economy thinking that you are guaranteed a $120k job upon graduation from a lower-tier-1 school is just plain dumb.

So, if you are fine with the worst case scenario, you should ignore us pricks and go through with it. The worst case scenario looks something like this:

1. You forgo approximately $300k in wages
2. You spend approximately $100k on a mediocre law school
3. Your best job prospects coming out of law school are below $100k/year

At this point, you have two choices:

1. You go back to your current job. You have just thrown away three years and nearly a half million dollars for two shiny new letters, J and D. Was it worth it? Of course, this choice is dependent on your current employer taking you back.

2. You stick with your plan of being a lawyer, even though it means a pay cut. Perhaps this would make you happy despite the fact that the earnings gap between this path and the path of skipping law school will extend infinitely into the future.

In my humble opinion, you should stay on what sounds like a very stable career path. Consider taking the LSAT again and applying next cycle. If you can get 178 on PTs there's really no reason you shouldn't be able to crack 172 on the real test. You seem like you'll only be happy if you are able to gun for the top biglaw jobs, and that simple isn't possible these days outside of the top schools.

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bk1
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby bk1 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:39 pm

awawa wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I'm sorry. I didn't mean what I said. NLJ250 jobs are pretty easy to snag in this economy, and just about everyone at a Top 50 school will get one if they work hard and network. In fact, you seem like the type of person who should be gunning for Wachtell. Shoot for the stars!

You're right, you should quit your near 6-figure job and spend tens of thousands on law school because you will more than likely end up with a 120k+ job upon graduation (probably more like 150-160k). Great financial strategy.


Read my post again - I am not going to law school to make more money. I am going to law school because I want to. I have always wanted to.

Repeat: I am not going to law school just so I can make more money. With all the perks and benefits, I am very near 6 figures already, and I would probably be at 120+ in 3-4 years.

The reality is if I can't make more than I am making right now, I am not going to work for a law firm. I might as well just come back to this job.

Simple economics.

Of course, the idea of attending law school is to practice law. Hence, the post on this thread.


You can't really call it "simple economics" when part of the equation is your uneconomical want to go to law school based merely on desire.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Nom Sawyer » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:52 pm

smashedpumpkins wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:Most of those people are delusional, and/or have absolutely no ability to perform cost/benefit.


I'm going to go to CLS, but I don't think the cost-benefit is so straightforward, because one side is essentially unquantifiable. On the high end, HLS could be worth an incalculable amount (think about how much mileage Obama got out being editor of the HLR). For the average person, it's probably not worth that much.


And yes, I will definitely be putting Hamilton (full-tuition scholarship) on my resume.

Edit: Also, if my parents were paying, and all this meant was that I would receive 150k (minus taxes, of course) less as an inheritance in 25 years, I would certainly go to HLS.


I agree... the Hamilton always sounds like the better choice financially... but 70% choose HYS over it. I really don't know what I would do in that situation, kind of glad I don't have to face it actually.

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IAFG
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby IAFG » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:53 pm

LieutKaffee wrote:
awawa wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I'm sorry. I didn't mean what I said. NLJ250 jobs are pretty easy to snag in this economy, and just about everyone at a Top 50 school will get one if they work hard and network. In fact, you seem like the type of person who should be gunning for Wachtell. Shoot for the stars!

You're right, you should quit your near 6-figure job and spend tens of thousands on law school because you will more than likely end up with a 120k+ job upon graduation (probably more like 150-160k). Great financial strategy.


Read my post again - I am not going to law school to make more money. I am going to law school because I want to. I have always wanted to.

Repeat: I am not going to law school just so I can make more money. With all the perks and benefits, I am very near 6 figures already, and I would probably be at 120+ in 3-4 years.

The reality is if I can't make more than I am making right now, I am not going to work for a law firm. I might as well just come back to this job.

Simple economics.

Of course, the idea of attending law school is to practice law. Hence, the post on this thread.


Dude, leaving your job to pursue your ambition of becoming a lawyer is all fine and good. The point they are making is that in this economy thinking that you are guaranteed a $120k job upon graduation from a lower-tier-1 school is just plain dumb.

So, if you are fine with the worst case scenario, you should ignore us pricks and go through with it. The worst case scenario looks something like this:

1. You forgo approximately $300k in wages
2. You spend approximately $100k on a mediocre law school
3. Your best job prospects coming out of law school are below $100k/year

At this point, you have two choices:

1. You go back to your current job. You have just thrown away three years and nearly a half million dollars for two shiny new letters, J and D. Was it worth it? Of course, this choice is dependent on your current employer taking you back.

2. You stick with your plan of being a lawyer, even though it means a pay cut. Perhaps this would make you happy despite the fact that the earnings gap between this path and the path of skipping law school will extend infinitely into the future.

In my humble opinion, you should stay on what sounds like a very stable career path. Consider taking the LSAT again and applying next cycle. If you can get 178 on PTs there's really no reason you shouldn't be able to crack 172 on the real test. You seem like you'll only be happy if you are able to gun for the top biglaw jobs, and that simple isn't possible these days outside of the top schools.

LTK, i did not know you had a 180 post in you, but 180.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Nom Sawyer » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:41 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:
smashedpumpkins wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:Most of those people are delusional, and/or have absolutely no ability to perform cost/benefit.


I'm going to go to CLS, but I don't think the cost-benefit is so straightforward, because one side is essentially unquantifiable. On the high end, HLS could be worth an incalculable amount (think about how much mileage Obama got out being editor of the HLR). For the average person, it's probably not worth that much.


And yes, I will definitely be putting Hamilton (full-tuition scholarship) on my resume.

Edit: Also, if my parents were paying, and all this meant was that I would receive 150k (minus taxes, of course) less as an inheritance in 25 years, I would certainly go to HLS.


I agree... the Hamilton always sounds like the better choice financially... but 70% choose HYS over it. I really don't know what I would do in that situation, kind of glad I don't have to face it actually.


Shiiiiit. I wish I had to face it. IMHO:

Hamilton > Y > AnrBryce > Darrow > H > S

I'm sure I'm forgetting a fancy named scholarship or two, but you get the gist.


My rankings are a little screwy but probably like:

Hamilton > Y/H/AnBryce > Darrow > S

This is why I'd go crazy with too many options

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:47 pm

IAFG wrote:LTK, i did not know you had a 180 post in you, but 180.


I guess you're rubbing off on me? Uh oh....

smashedpumpkins
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby smashedpumpkins » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:53 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
Shiiiiit. I wish I had to face it. IMHO:

Hamilton > Y > AnrBryce > Darrow > H > S

I'm sure I'm forgetting a fancy named scholarship or two, but you get the gist.


My rankings are a little screwy but probably like:

Hamilton > Y/H/AnBryce > Darrow > S

This is why I'd go crazy with too many options


Quite a few people facing this decision have families who are willing to support them through law school, which definitely helps.

I do get why going to HYS is such an attractive option though, even if it's so much more expensive. I've been given job opportunities this spring based on the fact that I've gotten into HLS - before even going there. It would be nice to be able to impress just about everyone with just one little line on your resume.

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haole_20
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby haole_20 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:13 am

Texas w/ 21K
or
Notre Dame with 60k?

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:15 am

haole_20 wrote:Texas w/ 21K
or
Notre Dame with 60k?


Texas.

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haole_20
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby haole_20 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:16 am

LieutKaffee wrote:
haole_20 wrote:Texas w/ 21K
or
Notre Dame with 60k?


Texas.


No doubter?

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:17 am

haole_20 wrote:
LieutKaffee wrote:
haole_20 wrote:Texas w/ 21K
or
Notre Dame with 60k?


Texas.


No doubter?


H20 will yell at me if I don't ask: what are your goals?

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:18 am

Also, after snooping, I would seriously consider the Vandy scholarship as well.

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haole_20
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby haole_20 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:22 am

LieutKaffee wrote:
haole_20 wrote:
LieutKaffee wrote:
haole_20 wrote:Texas w/ 21K
or
Notre Dame with 60k?


Texas.


No doubter?


H20 will yell at me if I don't ask: what are your goals?


I don't have any real interest in Vandy, plus I think their seat deposit was due yesterday. I know this is a dangerous thing to say around this place but I have a serious interest in academia.

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:37 am

haole_20 wrote:I don't have any real interest in Vandy, plus I think their seat deposit was due yesterday. I know this is a dangerous thing to say around this place but I have a serious interest in academia.


Even more Texas then imho.

If each school's total COA is around 60k per year, it seems like you're looking at 120k debt from ND or 160k debt from UT. If ND was going to be free, it would be a tough decision. UT is just way better in terms of prestige and has SERIOUS job prospects in Texas. Notre Dame didn't throw you enough to make it a particularly tough call.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:06 am

awawa wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:
awawa wrote:Guys, I am not talking about random, shit ass, clown-face law firms. I am confining myself to NLJ250 law-firms based in the respective regions.

Given that clarification, my numbers above are well within reason.



L O L, dude this is not like a fucking bingo tournament at the senior citizens center you don't get to just sign up.


[strike]You're a clown, did you know that?

I earn more than 90k right now (plus lotsa benefits). I am not going to law school, spending 150k to earn less than 90k. I want to be a lawyer, which is why I am going to law school. But, I am not going to settle for anything less than my current salary.

I know I can and will do well in law school. I am horrible with the LSAT (which explains the horrible choices), but I have worked with law profs and helped 2 write their papers. I wrote almost 80% for one guy and it was published in a top journal.

If you set your goal at 50k, you will end up at 30k. Aim higher. Much higher. Then you can end up somewhere reasonable.[/strike]



Fixed that for you.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:14 am

wow, that awawa guy is flat out stupid as hell

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JustDude
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby JustDude » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:58 am

Option 1: Columbia Sticker
Option 2: Defer for the second year and may be mot go.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: BP decides where you go to law school

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:07 am

JustDude wrote:Option 1: Columbia Sticker
Option 2: Defer for the second year and may be mot go.



I would say defer and further look in to Naturopathy.




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