Michigan with 45K vs Cornell and GULC with 75K each

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which School?

Michigan with 45K
44
70%
Cornell with 75K
9
14%
GULC with 75K
10
16%
 
Total votes: 63

doomed123
Posts: 156
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Re: Michigan with 45K vs Cornell and GULC with 75K each

Postby doomed123 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:25 pm

RVP11 wrote: The fact that you are arguing that 2 points has ZERO statistical significance is what is truly retarded. How can two points have no statistical significance and yet ten points does?


I don't think you understand the concept of statistical significance.

09042014
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Re: Michigan with 45K vs Cornell and GULC with 75K each

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:27 pm

Joan Hollaway wrote:What is the median LSAT score for accepted students?
We do not use an admissions formula or index system when we evaluate applicants, nor is there a floor below which we will not consider a candidate. However, University of Michigan Law School is very selective, and the LSAT is an important—though not dispositive—factor in our consideration of an applicant. The median LSAT score for the 2009 entering class is 169 (97th percentile) and the 25th and 75th percentiles for the class are 167 and 170, respectively. Bear in mind that there is no statistically significant difference within plus or minus three points of any particular LSAT score.

from the mich website, guess they are just making stuff up too right?


+/- 3 points is the margin of error for your individual LSAT score. It's a measurement of how accurate the test is. For an individual two points isn't statistically significant.

But when you take a group of 300 people that randomness evens out. The people who scored higher than they should are balanced out by those who scored lower.

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RVP11
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Re: Michigan with 45K vs Cornell and GULC with 75K each

Postby RVP11 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:29 pm

doomed123 wrote:
RVP11 wrote: The fact that you are arguing that 2 points has ZERO statistical significance is what is truly retarded. How can two points have no statistical significance and yet ten points does?


I don't think you understand the concept of statistical significance.


Ask yourself this: all else equal, would rather be competing with a class of 168s or a class of 170s?

Also, find me a study that says that 2-3 points has no statistical significance but more than 3 points DOES. Find that study. Explain how that can be the case. Win this thread.

I'm talking about the aggregate. Not individual decisions. Of course an admissions office would be crazy to pick between Johnny Applicant A over Johnny Applicant B by just saying "well, A got a 170, B got a 168...we're going with A." Of course, there are probably more informative factors available (GPA, resume, UG, whatever).

But across the board, if a law school can either admit A) one hundred 168s or B) one hundred 170s, are you really going to say "hey man, no diff?" Who would you be betting on to be the smarter bunch, on average?

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violinst
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Re: Michigan with 45K vs Cornell and GULC with 75K each

Postby violinst » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:44 pm

ladiesandgerms wrote:
jks289 wrote:The costs difference are negligable and honestly for the most part so is the career stuff. Assuming you perform the same everywhere (which is a relatively fair assumption, I think) you'll most likely place into big law being top 30-40% from any of them. Michigan gives you a slight advantage. At this point I think your feelings and personal preference matter more than you might think. Being happy at your school will help suceed in classes, find valuable mentors, make like minded networking connections with classmates, all things that matter at the end of the day in the employment game.


Very much agree with this. If I were in your shoes, cost and rep would play the smallest roles in my decision. All three scholarships are great, and all three schools offer comparable opportunities. You said you visited all three... where do you see yourself being happiest? being most successful? Beyond that, think about where you want to work (New York, Chicago, or DC). The way the economy is right now, connections and alumni loyalty are important in getting jobs. While all three schools have national reps, in terms of connections you may have better luck coming from Cornell in NY, Michigan in Chicago, and Gtown in DC.


NY is actually Michigan grads' primary destination.

Between Cornell and Michigan, which school has a better reputation and representation in NYC?

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KMaine
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Re: Michigan with 45K vs Cornell and GULC with 75K each

Postby KMaine » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:09 pm

Regarding the UVA, Cornell, Cardozo issue. 3 LSAT points does not equal 3 LSAT points on a bell curve. UVA median (170) = 98.4 percentile, Cornell Median (167) = 96.4 percentile Cardozo Median (taking your word on this) (164) = 92.5 percentile. There is almost exactly twice as many testers separating the average Cornell student from the average Cardozo student as there is separating the average UVA student from the average Cornell Student.

There is a world of difference between the overall quality of student at Cornell and Cardozo, whereas the average UVA student and the average Cornell student are largely indistinguishable.

That said, I think it is a little easier to finish in the top 25% at Cornell as compared to Michigan, but at both schools everybody will be very bright, and work pretty hard. The 30K should not make your decision. Go where you want to go. I chose Cornell over Michigan and Duke, but difference in money was greater. Good luck.

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im_blue
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Re: Michigan with 45K vs Cornell and GULC with 75K each

Postby im_blue » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:16 pm

KMaine wrote:Regarding the UVA, Cornell, Cardozo issue. 3 LSAT points does not equal 3 LSAT points on a bell curve. UVA median (170) = 98.4 percentile, Cornell Median (167) = 96.4 percentile Cardozo Median (taking your word on this) (164) = 92.5 percentile. There is almost exactly twice as many testers separating the average Cornell student from the average Cardozo student as there is separating the average UVA student from the average Cornell Student.

There is a world of difference between the overall quality of student at Cornell and Cardozo, whereas the average UVA student and the average Cornell student are largely indistinguishable.

Nope, there's a huge difference between UVA's top 1.6 percentile and Cornell's top 3.6 percentile. That means only about 44% of 167+ scorers are also 170+ scorers. Similarly, only 48% of 164+ scorers are also 167+ scorers. You've got the right idea, comparing percentiles rather than LSAT points, but the difference from 100% is what's meaningful here.

ladiesandgerms
Posts: 13
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Re: Michigan with 45K vs Cornell and GULC with 75K each

Postby ladiesandgerms » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:34 pm

violinst wrote:
ladiesandgerms wrote:
jks289 wrote:The costs difference are negligable and honestly for the most part so is the career stuff. Assuming you perform the same everywhere (which is a relatively fair assumption, I think) you'll most likely place into big law being top 30-40% from any of them. Michigan gives you a slight advantage. At this point I think your feelings and personal preference matter more than you might think. Being happy at your school will help suceed in classes, find valuable mentors, make like minded networking connections with classmates, all things that matter at the end of the day in the employment game.


Very much agree with this. If I were in your shoes, cost and rep would play the smallest roles in my decision. All three scholarships are great, and all three schools offer comparable opportunities. You said you visited all three... where do you see yourself being happiest? being most successful? Beyond that, think about where you want to work (New York, Chicago, or DC). The way the economy is right now, connections and alumni loyalty are important in getting jobs. While all three schools have national reps, in terms of connections you may have better luck coming from Cornell in NY, Michigan in Chicago, and Gtown in DC.


NY is actually Michigan grads' primary destination.

Between Cornell and Michigan, which school has a better reputation and representation in NYC?


Looking at the location of recent UMich grads, it's pretty much split between the major markets (Chicago, NY, DC, LA). In terms of reputation and representation, I'd guess that Michigan will have the slight advantage in reputation while Cornell will have a greater representation in NYC.

All that being said, I don't think the differences in reputation, representation, and money between these three schools are consequential enough to totally outweigh the simple decision of where you'd like to go for three years. All three are great options. I know it sounds weird, but congratulations on your tough decision.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: Michigan with 45K vs Cornell and GULC with 75K each

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:29 pm

ladiesandgerms wrote:
violinst wrote:
ladiesandgerms wrote: While all three schools have national reps, in terms of connections you may have better luck coming from Cornell in NY, Michigan in Chicago, and Gtown in DC.


NY is actually Michigan grads' primary destination.

Between Cornell and Michigan, which school has a better reputation and representation in NYC?


Looking at the location of recent UMich grads, it's pretty much split between the major markets (Chicago, NY, DC, LA).

Just wanted to post some figures as to where Michigan put graduates recently - there is something of a split given Michigan's location, but NYC does still seem to be our most frequent destination. From 2007-2009 we placed the following number of graduates per city:

NYC: 272
Chicago: 167
DC: 110
CA: 97

Certainly we split substantial numbers in major markets across the country, but NYC seems to still be the favorite.


http://www.law.umich.edu/careers/factsandstats/Pages/default.aspx




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