Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

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flying_squirrel
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Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby flying_squirrel » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:20 pm

Thanks to the many post on TLS that I have read over the past 2+ yrs. describing the job prospects for Law School students, I'm not a 1L right now. While there are certainly jobs to be had in the legal profession, I felt that I had to play the odds and forgo Law School until the job prospects turn around (if they ever will).

To wait out the economy, I was able to find a job making about $50k in a relatively low COL area, but I have already begun thinking of the ideal time to jump into law school. While I'm not a materialistic person and definitely not planning on going to L School based solely on earnings potential, it is certainly a large factor that can't be ignored. The math tells me that it would only make sense financially if I were able to find a job in the ballpark of $100 k+.

My #'s right now definitely make me competitive for the T14, so I'm curious what people think the rankings be for L-Schools based on the % of class that has the opportunity to take a $100 k+ job if that is what they wanted.

While, this is a complete guess loosely based on the # of clerkships & firm hiring on the NLJ 250, and the current economy, here are my thoughts: (feel free to disagree!)

Y (80%)
H (75%)
S
Col (60%)
NYU
Chic (50%)
Penn
Mich (45%)
Virg.
NW
Duke (40%)
Corn
Boalt
GU (35%)
Tex
UCLA (30%)
Vandy
USC (25%)
WUSTL
GW
ND
Ill (20%)
BU
Emory
Minn
BC
Iowa
Rest of T50 (10 - 15%)

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RayFinkle
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby RayFinkle » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:23 pm

You can make six figures outside the NLJ 250, so that might adjust your %s. But I realize this isn't a scientific exercise.

note: I have no numbers to back this up, I just know people in such a situation.
Last edited by RayFinkle on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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soullesswonder
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby soullesswonder » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:24 pm

These numbers strike me as way too low in spots. UVA basically placed a combined 2/3rds in the NLJ 250 + clerkships last year, and after throwing in a handful of PI people you could say 70% had a shot. Duke would probably be over 60% and Vandy around 50% (NB: I am operating on the assumption that only a tiny fraction of the NLJ250 pays out less than 95-100k to starting associates).

EDIT: The notion that the bottom 20 percent of Yale couldn't get a 100k job is beyond ridiculous.
Last edited by soullesswonder on Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ArthurEdens
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby ArthurEdens » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:27 pm

The % seem a bit low. Your odds will also be improved if you bring something other than law school to the table (e.g. technical background for IP or some other work experience).

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby BarbellDreams » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:41 pm

Many midlaw firms offer 100k so that scews your numbers completely.

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flying_squirrel
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby flying_squirrel » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:52 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Many midlaw firms offer 100k so that scews your numbers completely.


Yes. I realize that my numbers are probably a good 20% below all of the statistics that are out there now, but I'm making those guesses based on anyone entering Law School this fall and what their odds are.

1) There are very, very few firms that are raising starting salaries
2) Firms are hiring smaller classes in this economy.
3) We still don't have any hiring statistics for a class that went through 2L OCI after the economy tanked.

Basically, if I were entering X School this fall, I would have __ % chance that I will be offered a $100k + job (and hence make the investment worth it from a financial perspective). If the consensus is that all of my #'s are waay low, then I guess I shouldn't be as concerned as I am about job prospects.

MidlawMyth
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby MidlawMyth » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:55 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Many midlaw firms offer 100k so that scews your numbers completely.
Midlaw is internet myth.

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98234872348
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby 98234872348 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:03 pm

MidlawMyth wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Many midlaw firms offer 100k so that scews your numbers completely.
Midlaw is internet myth.

There are thousands of midlaw firms that prove you wrong, bro (for instance, search martindale for law firms of 25-49 lawyers: it yields 2800 results). It's just not something that's easy to get right out of law school.
Last edited by 98234872348 on Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:06 pm

But it is likely those numbers aren't indicative of the economy now and for sure not for the class of 2013. )
flying_squirrel wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Many midlaw firms offer 100k so that scews your numbers completely.


Yes. I realize that my numbers are probably a good 20% below all of the statistics that are out there now, but I'm making those guesses based on anyone entering Law School this fall and what their odds are.

1) There are very, very few firms that are raising starting salaries
2) Firms are hiring smaller classes in this economy.
3) We still don't have any hiring statistics for a class that went through 2L OCI after the economy tanked.

Basically, if I were entering X School this fall, I would have __ % chance that I will be offered a $100k + job (and hence make the investment worth it from a financial perspective). If the consensus is that all of my #'s are waay low, then I guess I shouldn't be as concerned as I am about job prospects.

icydash
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby icydash » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:10 pm

MidlawMyth wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Many midlaw firms offer 100k so that scews your numbers completely.
Midlaw is internet myth.

MidlawMyth: Please tell me you didn't go register a new TLS nickname just to make this comment.
Last edited by icydash on Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rayiner
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby rayiner » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:10 pm

Numbers are low, and display imaginary precision.

1) Y/S should be nearly everyone. It's really hard to distinguish beyond the very very bottom at those schools.
2) From what I've been hearing, 80% is the number for biglaw at H.
3) No real reason to break CCN down. We don't have solid data, and what data we do have suggests if anything Chicago is doing the best because of it's small class size and more diverse placement. I'd say 65% for CCN.
4) No reason to break MVPBDN down. I haven't heard anything outside the ~50% range for any of those schools.
5) I wouldn't want to break CG out, but I haven't heard any data for them.

These are the numbers for biglaw through OCI. I'd imagine a few % more here and there will pick up $100k+ jobs through other means before graduation, especially at Harvard.

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flying_squirrel
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby flying_squirrel » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:18 pm

rayiner wrote:Numbers are low, and display imaginary precision.

1) Y/S should be nearly everyone. It's really hard to distinguish beyond the very very bottom at those schools.
2) From what I've been hearing, 80% is the number for biglaw at H.
3) No real reason to break CCN down. We don't have solid data, and what data we do have suggests if anything Chicago is doing the best because of it's small class size and more diverse placement. I'd say 65% for CCN.
4) No reason to break MVPBDN down. I haven't heard anything outside the ~50% range for any of those schools.
5) I wouldn't want to break CG out, but I haven't heard any data for them.

These are the numbers for biglaw through OCI. I'd imagine a few % more here and there will pick up $100k+ jobs through other means before graduation, especially at Harvard.


Thanks for your insight. What would you say the best assumption would be for T1 schools outside of the T14 or how would you break them down?

MidlawMyth
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby MidlawMyth » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:22 pm

icydash wrote:
MidlawMyth wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Many midlaw firms offer 100k so that scews your numbers completely.
Midlaw is internet myth.

MidlawMyth: Please tell me you didn't go register a new TLS nickname just to make this comment.
No, it's my life's work to break down the conventional wisdom on TLS of "who cares if you strike out with BIGLAW at OCI, 100K Midlaw with 40 hour workweeks are better anyway."

newyorklaw23
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby newyorklaw23 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:25 pm

Shouldn't fordham be somewhere in there? I can't imagine they're #'s are only 10-15%.

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kdw94780
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby kdw94780 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:34 pm

Where are you getting these numbers? Are they factoring in the recession? They look also to me too low. For example. If the median for a school like Vandy or WUSTL is 100,000+, then that means at least half their students make 100,000+.

Don't forget you can make 100,000+ starting off in cities other than NYC, CHI, LA, and DC. These random numbers to me instead look like your guesses at the % of students who can expect to have a shot at earning the top market rate in a big market.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby motiontodismiss » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:46 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Many midlaw firms offer 100k so that scews your numbers completely.


Some of the very lucky, tiny percentage of inhousers that get inhouse at F500 straight out of law school can get paid $100k+.

MidlawMyth
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby MidlawMyth » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:48 pm

kdw94780 wrote:Where are you getting these numbers? Are they factoring in the recession? They look also to me too low. For example. If the median for a school like Vandy or WUSTL is 100,000+, then that means at least half their students make 100,000+.
I LOLed

ranovr32
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby ranovr32 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:50 pm

Well I know for a fact the 50% number is wrong for Chicago, I just went to ASW and its much closer to 70%. That isn't including clerkships, which I hear can get in the upper 70's for pay.

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kdw94780
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby kdw94780 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:54 pm

MidlawMyth wrote:
kdw94780 wrote:Where are you getting these numbers? Are they factoring in the recession? They look also to me too low. For example. If the median for a school like Vandy or WUSTL is 100,000+, then that means at least half their students make 100,000+.
I LOLed


why?

night06
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby night06 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:55 pm

Vanderbilt should definitely be higher. They placed 47% into NLJ, and that's not even taking into account clerkships and PI.

MidlawMyth
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby MidlawMyth » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:57 pm

kdw94780 wrote:
MidlawMyth wrote:
kdw94780 wrote:Where are you getting these numbers? Are they factoring in the recession? They look also to me too low. For example. If the median for a school like Vandy or WUSTL is 100,000+, then that means at least half their students make 100,000+.
I LOLed


why?
You seriously think half the people at those schools get $100K+ jobs?

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kdw94780
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby kdw94780 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:59 pm

If their medians are above 100,000...that's by definition means that they do. I dont know how the recession has affected everything, but if firms like Shook Hardy and Bacon in KCMO are paying 100,000 k then I dont see how that's impossible to believe...we're talking T20 schools not Florida Coastal.

MidlawMyth
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby MidlawMyth » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:04 pm

kdw94780 wrote:If their medians are above 100,000...that's by definition means that they do. I dont know how the recession has affected everything, but if firms like Shook Hardy and Bacon in KCMO are paying 100,000 k then I dont see how that's impossible to believe...we're talking T20 schools not Florida Coastal.
Those numbers are made up. Imaginary. There is no regulation.

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rayiner
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby rayiner » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:49 pm

ranovr32 wrote:Well I know for a fact the 50% number is wrong for Chicago, I just went to ASW and its much closer to 70%. That isn't including clerkships, which I hear can get in the upper 70's for pay.


You have to remember that nearly all the folks who ultimately take clerkships have 2L SA offers (in case the clerkships don't pan out). So you can't add the two numbers together.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Ranking by $100k + Job Prospects

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:00 pm

kdw94780 wrote:
MidlawMyth wrote:
kdw94780 wrote:Where are you getting these numbers? Are they factoring in the recession? They look also to me too low. For example. If the median for a school like Vandy or WUSTL is 100,000+, then that means at least half their students make 100,000+.
I LOLed


why?


Think of it this way:

Let's assume Vanderbilt/WUSTL place 70% into law firms.

Let's assume that US News data has both of those schools median private salary at $100,000.

That would mean that roughly 35% of their classes had jobs of $100,000+.

*This example was based on randomly assumed data solely for proving a point.

****I hereby disclaim all warranties, implied and expressed to the statistics provided. Implied warranties disclaimed include, but are not limited to, the implied warranty of merchantability and implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose****




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