Finding assessment scores by region

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imisscollege
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Finding assessment scores by region

Postby imisscollege » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:26 am

I think that if there were any way to find out assessment scores by region, it would give people debating between law schools a ton of clarity. Does anybody have any ideas about how to access this kind of information?

imisscollege
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby imisscollege » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:19 pm

bump--are these really not available?

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RVP11
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby RVP11 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:41 pm

imisscollege wrote:bump--are these really not available?


They're really not available.

imisscollege
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby imisscollege » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:43 pm

RVP11 wrote:
imisscollege wrote:bump--are these really not available?


They're really not available.


even if one were willing to spend money? because you have to agree that this would add a huge amount of help to picking law schools.

09042014
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:48 pm

imisscollege wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
imisscollege wrote:bump--are these really not available?


They're really not available.


even if one were willing to spend money? because you have to agree that this would add a huge amount of help to picking law schools.


Why? Job placement data would be better don't you think?

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:50 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
imisscollege wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
imisscollege wrote:bump--are these really not available?


They're really not available.


even if one were willing to spend money? because you have to agree that this would add a huge amount of help to picking law schools.


Why? Job placement data would be better don't you think?


This. For a school like mine, it doesn't matter if employers in Kansas or South Dakota know and like our graduates. Employment data is a useful stand in for the assessment scores of the attorneys who actually hire my classmates.

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ggocat
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby ggocat » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:56 pm

imisscollege wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
imisscollege wrote:bump--are these really not available?


They're really not available.


even if one were willing to spend money? because you have to agree that this would add a huge amount of help to picking law schools.

You could obtain survey responses from respondents at public law schools by filing state open records requests. See, e.g., http://www.gainesville.com/article/2009 ... tings-game. That would cost money and time.

There is no way to get any information about the judge-lawyer assessment scores. And even if U.S. News gave this data by region, you'd likely have gaps because (according to Leiter) U.S. News surveys no practitioners in half of the states in the country. http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2 ... news.shtml.

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ggocat
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby ggocat » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:00 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:This. For a school like mine, it doesn't matter if employers in Kansas or South Dakota know and like our graduates. Employment data is a useful stand in for the assessment scores of the attorneys who actually hire my classmates.

Regional peer/judge-lawyer survey responses might be useful for an applicant considering schools in a similar region (or a higher ranked school in a different region if the student intends to practice in the region of the lower ranked school). For example, what do Kansas practitioners think of WUSTL compared to UKansas? Do Midwest practitioners rate Iowa or Georgetown higher? etc.

imisscollege
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby imisscollege » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:41 pm

ggocat wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:This. For a school like mine, it doesn't matter if employers in Kansas or South Dakota know and like our graduates. Employment data is a useful stand in for the assessment scores of the attorneys who actually hire my classmates.

Regional peer/judge-lawyer survey responses might be useful for an applicant considering schools in a similar region (or a higher ranked school in a different region if the student intends to practice in the region of the lower ranked school). For example, what do Kansas practitioners think of WUSTL compared to UKansas? Do Midwest practitioners rate Iowa or Georgetown higher? etc.


This is exactly what I was getting at.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby Sauer Grapes » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:51 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Why? Job placement data would be better don't you think?


This. For a school like mine, it doesn't matter if employers in Kansas or South Dakota know and like our graduates. Employment data is a useful stand in for the assessment scores of the attorneys who actually hire my classmates.

Actually, both sets of data would be beneficial. Actual employment data doesn't necessarily tell you if people in that region would hire your classmates, it tells you whether they have recently. Unfortunately, this data isn't as useful as it seems due to self selection. How many Fordham grads do you think seek employment in KS or ND?

imisscollege
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby imisscollege » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:54 pm

Sauer Grapes wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Why? Job placement data would be better don't you think?


This. For a school like mine, it doesn't matter if employers in Kansas or South Dakota know and like our graduates. Employment data is a useful stand in for the assessment scores of the attorneys who actually hire my classmates.

Actually, both sets of data would be beneficial. Actual employment data doesn't necessarily tell you if people in that region would hire your classmates, it tells you whether they have recently. Unfortunately, this data isn't as useful as it seems due to self selection. How many Fordham grads do you think seek employment in KS or ND?


I agree. I mean the benefit of the regional assessment scores would be to assist with deciding about things such as NYU vs. USC for California. Obviously way more USCers self-select and end up there but does that mean that firms/whatever wouldn't PREFER an NYU grad?

imisscollege
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby imisscollege » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:59 pm

Nightrunner wrote:Regional assessment scores exist because USNWR isn't ballsy enough to use actual job placement data. If you want to know how good a school is, don't mess with a quasi-meaningless survey: go find employment data.


But the issue is that employment data doesn't counter the issue of self-selection (unless I'm missing something enormous). There will be more BC grads at Boston BigLaw than Stanford grads and this would be reflected in placement data. But it's an important, yet obvious, thing to note that this doesn't mean that Boston firms would prefer a BC grad to a Stanford grad. That's where I think that regional assessment score data would be useful. How DO Boston firms view S vs. BC? What about firms in St. Louis? Does it change? See what I mean?

imisscollege
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby imisscollege » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:17 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
imisscollege wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:Regional assessment scores exist because USNWR isn't ballsy enough to use actual job placement data. If you want to know how good a school is, don't mess with a quasi-meaningless survey: go find employment data.


But the issue is that employment data doesn't counter the issue of self-selection (unless I'm missing something enormous). There will be more BC grads at Boston BigLaw than Stanford grads and this would be reflected in placement data. But it's an important, yet obvious, thing to note that this doesn't mean that Boston firms would prefer a BC grad to a Stanford grad. That's where I think that regional assessment score data would be useful. How DO Boston firms view S vs. BC? What about firms in St. Louis? Does it change? See what I mean?


This is true, but the assessment scores are also self-selecting.


I think I know what you mean but if I'm right, I wouldn't think that it'd nearly be to the same extent. Can you elaborate?

09042014
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby 09042014 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:20 pm

There are no regional assessment scores. USNEWS doesn't even poll people in half the states in America.

Also ITE doesn't go to regional school and expect to find work in a different region.

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RVP11
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Re: Finding assessment scores by region

Postby RVP11 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:22 pm

Nightrunner wrote:Go to school where you want to practice.


If you want to practice in a big firm in a small market, this is terrible advice.




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