Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

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fenderjsm88
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Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby fenderjsm88 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:08 pm

Basically, I have a 45k scholarship at Indiana, but I'm out of state, so it ends up at around 145k total.
I'm on the WL at both ND and Illinois.
In-state at Illinois, which makes it around 160k total, and I think ND is in that area...but I'm still on the WL at those schools.

If I don't get off the WL at either Illinois or ND, I really don't know if I'll go at all...Indiana's reputation is definitely a little sketchy. But, even if I do get off the WL, is it even worth it to attend any of these schools at sticker or near-sticker? I can't get over some of the horror stories I'm hearing about the legal market. I'm not BigLaw or Bust, but if I go to law school and into 150k debt, I at least want to make 60k a year when I get out.

Thoughts?

MidlawMyth
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby MidlawMyth » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:10 pm

No, of course those schools are not worth the costs. No, you won't listen to us anyway.

Informative
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby Informative » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:15 pm

Yeah, I don't think any of the midwest state schools are worth the full price cost. They charge almost as much as their east coast counterparts with significantly less ability to place students at top firms paying 160k market. Unless you can attend one for under $80k in total debt after graduation (taking interest into account), I don't think these schools are worth it.

Just an opinion.

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DerrickRose
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby DerrickRose » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:15 pm

This is a "why do I really want to go to law school" moment.

spinecho202
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby spinecho202 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:40 pm

save yourself the hassle and go into business. I worked for this biglaw partner as a ugrad (as an assistant), and he told me if he could do it all over again, he'd go to business school. He said billing by the hour is no way to make a living, and his business model is no different than a plumber.

http://www.foley.com/people/bio.aspx?employeeid=16086

I know 1 friend who went to ND, around median, unemployed. Another at IU, below median, unemployed, and Top third at IL with decent pi job. Another, top 1% @ madison, biglaw. There is the midwest for you.

spinecho202
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby spinecho202 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:53 pm

not to mention the chicago biglaw market went from ~800 SA positions in '08 to like ~250 now in '10
Last edited by spinecho202 on Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dutchstriker
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby dutchstriker » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:56 pm

Informative wrote:Yeah, I don't think any of the midwest state schools are worth the full price cost. They charge almost as much as their east coast counterparts with significantly less ability to place students at top firms paying 160k market. Unless you can attend one for under $80k in total debt after graduation (taking interest into account), I don't think these schools are worth it.

Just an opinion.

University of Michigan?

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sanpiero
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby sanpiero » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:57 pm

spinecho202 wrote:not to mention the chicago biglaw market went from ~850 SA positions in '07 to like ~250 now in '09


do you know if there have been any studies done, here or elsewhere, on NALP SA hiring between 2007 and 2009 by city? I think that would be really interesting to see. The data are readily available, it's just a matter of taking the time to aggregate.

EDIT: gr

spinecho202
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby spinecho202 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:59 pm

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=113615

this post shows it by firm breakdown in chicago, but I haven't seen a thread with all the cities combined

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby Great Satchmo » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:24 pm

Informative wrote:Yeah, I don't think any of the midwest state schools are worth the full price cost. They charge almost as much as their east coast counterparts with significantly less ability to place students at top firms paying 160k market. Unless you can attend one for under $80k in total debt after graduation (taking interest into account), I don't think these schools are worth it.

Just an opinion.


Unless you have what is almost a full ride scholarship, how can you go to ANY school with under $80k in debt including interest? Cost of living expenses and books are going to be $45k-$60k, that leaves ~$7k-10k/year for tuition.

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fenderjsm88
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby fenderjsm88 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:17 pm

spinecho202 wrote:save yourself the hassle and go into business. I worked for this biglaw partner as a ugrad (as an assistant), and he told me if he could do it all over again, he'd go to business school. He said billing by the hour is no way to make a living, and his business model is no different than a plumber.

http://www.foley.com/people/bio.aspx?employeeid=16086

I know 1 friend who went to ND, around median, unemployed. Another at IU, below median, unemployed, and Top third at IL with decent pi job. Another, top 1% @ madison, biglaw. There is the midwest for you.


Yeah, I'm about ready to chicken out on the whole law school thing. It's such a ridiculously high risk investment. When my parents were growing up, law was almost considered a "safe" career choice. Not so much the case these days.

Would it be possible to go into business school with a psych degree? I guess I would need a few years of work experience. I've spent the last three years of undergrad (I'm 22) planning on and preparing for law school, but now it just seems like too expensive and risky of an option. My future is so uncertain it's driving me nuts...

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DerrickRose
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby DerrickRose » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:26 pm

Sounds to me like the Retake/Reapply mantra might come in handy here.

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FunkyJD
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby FunkyJD » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:29 pm

fenderjsm88 wrote:Yeah, I'm about ready to chicken out on the whole law school thing. It's such a ridiculously high risk investment. When my parents were growing up, law was almost considered a "safe" career choice. Not so much the case these days.

Would it be possible to go into business school with a psych degree? I guess I would need a few years of work experience. I've spent the last three years of undergrad (I'm 22) planning on and preparing for law school, but now it just seems like too expensive and risky of an option. My future is so uncertain it's driving me nuts...

Business school isn't a sure thing either. There are plenty of unemployed MBAs.

If you're not sure about law school, there's nothing wrong with taking some time after you graduate from ugrad to figure out your next move -- whatever it may be.

09042014
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:36 pm

Informative wrote:Yeah, I don't think any of the midwest state schools are worth the full price cost. They charge almost as much as their east coast counterparts with significantly less ability to place students at top firms paying 160k market. Unless you can attend one for under $80k in total debt after graduation (taking interest into account), I don't think these schools are worth it.

Just an opinion.


Which east coast counterparts are we talking about. Because the east coast nont14, but still T1 schools have just as shitty placement as the midwest schools.

jarofsoup
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby jarofsoup » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:38 pm

Take a tour of the campuses, sit in on a couple classes, and don't listen to much about what people say on these blogs about debt. It's your debt and you own it. If you want to be a lawyer then it may be worth the money for you to go to these schools. I don't think you will starve in spite of the debt.

When I talked to my career councilor about law school at my undergraduate school she told me that her daughter in law payed sticker at a T1(not top 14 but top 30) and payed the debt off in about 5 years.



You should tour first because these are all good schools.

spinecho202
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby spinecho202 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:18 pm

I still advocate going into business (i work in private equity, ug in accounting), but if you aren't sure I'd just take a year off and figure out what you want to do. I was in the same situation as you when I graduated. I spent most of my college career prepping for law school, but decided not to go in the end.

Plus, after another year, OCI/hiring will probably improve if you decide to go, and if you get some decent employment, you can reevaluate your business career/prospects.

Law just seemed like too much of a risk in my mind unless you got into a T14 (or should i say T12?), or you've always wanted to be a lawyer since you were 5 or something...

There are plenty of programs for people just like you (say if you want to go into another field with much better hiring prospects and no previous experience, eg medicine, business, computer science). Just figure out your passion. Law is just too much of a gamble in this economy if you aren't sold on thats what you want to do.

http://www.gs.columbia.edu/postbac/
http://masters.cs.uchicago.edu/
http://business.nd.edu/MBA/Two-Year_MBA/Who_is_it_For/

OmbreGracieuse
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby OmbreGracieuse » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:43 pm

fenderjsm88 wrote:Basically, I have a 45k scholarship at Indiana, but I'm out of state, so it ends up at around 145k total.
I'm on the WL at both ND and Illinois.
In-state at Illinois, which makes it around 160k total, and I think ND is in that area...but I'm still on the WL at those schools.

If I don't get off the WL at either Illinois or ND, I really don't know if I'll go at all...Indiana's reputation is definitely a little sketchy. But, even if I do get off the WL, is it even worth it to attend any of these schools at sticker or near-sticker? I can't get over some of the horror stories I'm hearing about the legal market. I'm not BigLaw or Bust, but if I go to law school and into 150k debt, I at least want to make 60k a year when I get out.

Thoughts?


I am taking my UG near ND. You would be the FIRST person I've met at ND with NO assistance. ND isn't worth sticker price, they get the students they have due to aid. Don't go if they don't offer.

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sanpiero
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby sanpiero » Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:16 pm

OmbreGracieuse wrote:
fenderjsm88 wrote:Basically, I have a 45k scholarship at Indiana, but I'm out of state, so it ends up at around 145k total.
I'm on the WL at both ND and Illinois.
In-state at Illinois, which makes it around 160k total, and I think ND is in that area...but I'm still on the WL at those schools.

If I don't get off the WL at either Illinois or ND, I really don't know if I'll go at all...Indiana's reputation is definitely a little sketchy. But, even if I do get off the WL, is it even worth it to attend any of these schools at sticker or near-sticker? I can't get over some of the horror stories I'm hearing about the legal market. I'm not BigLaw or Bust, but if I go to law school and into 150k debt, I at least want to make 60k a year when I get out.

Thoughts?


I am taking my UG near ND. You would be the FIRST person I've met at ND with NO assistance. ND isn't worth sticker price, they get the students they have due to aid. Don't go if they don't offer.


Are you referring to ND law school or ND in general? If ND law school, is the aid you speak of need-based or merit-based?

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OneSixtySix
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby OneSixtySix » Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:17 pm

OmbreGracieuse wrote:
fenderjsm88 wrote:Basically, I have a 45k scholarship at Indiana, but I'm out of state, so it ends up at around 145k total.
I'm on the WL at both ND and Illinois.
In-state at Illinois, which makes it around 160k total, and I think ND is in that area...but I'm still on the WL at those schools.

If I don't get off the WL at either Illinois or ND, I really don't know if I'll go at all...Indiana's reputation is definitely a little sketchy. But, even if I do get off the WL, is it even worth it to attend any of these schools at sticker or near-sticker? I can't get over some of the horror stories I'm hearing about the legal market. I'm not BigLaw or Bust, but if I go to law school and into 150k debt, I at least want to make 60k a year when I get out.

Thoughts?


I am taking my UG near ND. You would be the FIRST person I've met at ND with NO assistance. ND isn't worth sticker price, they get the students they have due to aid. Don't go if they don't offer.


Except they offered me 8k while schools at or above their ranking offered 20-25k/year.

Catholic, wrote Why ND, attended admitted students day, genuine 1st choice...guess some folks just dont want to ask you to the dance.

OmbreGracieuse
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Re: Would it be dumb to attend Illinois/ND/Indiana near sticker?

Postby OmbreGracieuse » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:23 pm

sanpiero wrote:

Are you referring to ND law school or ND in general? If ND law school, is the aid you speak of need-based or merit-based?

ND law. Also, I am not quite sure what kind-- just aid in general.




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