Is BC on a gradual decline?

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imisscollege
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Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby imisscollege » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:58 am

I know in 2000 or so it was right around #20 and I really don't like to put stock in USNWR's actually rankings at any given time, but a school's gradual decline such as BC's or to a lesser extent Fordham's (a rise then a decline, right?) almost causes me to worry. I have been accepted to schools ranked much higher and am debating staying on Gtown's PT waitlist but when it comes down to it, I just like BC better than them.

So I am wondering why BC has been declining and if anybody thinks this decline will hurt public sector employment opportunities for the summers and after graduation. I am happy that it has exactly the same peer assessment score as many schools ranked above it but I just don't understand why it's relatively so low now. Any opinions would be appreciated.

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bceagles182
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby bceagles182 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:00 pm

BC and BU both each fell this year by two spots. My inclination is to attribute the drop to the abysmal employment scene in Boston at the moment. Regardless, BC's LSAT median went up two points this year from 164 to 166. I wouldn't be worried.

imisscollege
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby imisscollege » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:01 pm

bceagles182 wrote:BC and BU both each fell this year by two spots. My inclination is to attribute the drop to the abysmal employment scene in Boston at the moment. Regardless, BC's LSAT median went up two points this year from 164 to 166. I wouldn't be worried.


How abysmal is it and if you have links to cite, could you?

Are you at BC now?

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bceagles182
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby bceagles182 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:04 pm

No I'm not. I'm a prospective who went to BC undergrad. My evidence is anecdotal but I spoke with two hiring partners recently at Boston-based firms in search of some career advice and both told me that Boston was hit particularly hard. I also know several 2Ls at Suffolk who can't find anything right now even on a volunteer basis.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby OperaSoprano » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:05 pm

To answer the question in the title: No. BC is a wonderful school, and employers know this sort of fluctuation is designed to sell magazines and not an objective measure of student quality, given the many other factors (YP, anyone?) which are largely irrelevant. You should care about the quality of your education, and the school's relative career placement strength.

tram988
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby tram988 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:07 pm

Posts likethese make me laugh. BC keep raising it's medians. The rankings fluctuate. BC has never since 1987 left the top 30 and I don't think it ever will. I still think bc is undervalued relative to it's nlj250 placement and federal clerkship data.

tram988
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby tram988 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:09 pm

bceagles182 wrote:No I'm not. I'm a prospective who went to BC undergrad. My evidence is anecdotal but I spoke with two hiring partners recently at Boston-based firms in search of some career advice and both told me that Boston was hit particularly hard. I also know several 2Ls at Suffolk who can't find anything right now even on a volunteer basis.

I've heard this as well. I'm glad I'm not going to Suffolk/NESL

imisscollege
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby imisscollege » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:18 pm

tram988 wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:No I'm not. I'm a prospective who went to BC undergrad. My evidence is anecdotal but I spoke with two hiring partners recently at Boston-based firms in search of some career advice and both told me that Boston was hit particularly hard. I also know several 2Ls at Suffolk who can't find anything right now even on a volunteer basis.

I've heard this as well. I'm glad I'm not going to Suffolk/NESL


I was getting off the T at south station yesterday and there was some dude handing stuff out for NESL and talking about how good it was and I told him that "you guys should be ashamed of yourselves." He knew what I was referring to but didn't respond.

tram988
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby tram988 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:21 pm

Yeah I actually have a friend starting there in the fa after being denied at Suffolk and everyother Boston school. Wouldn't catch me there.

imisscollege
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby imisscollege » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:25 pm

tram988 wrote:Yeah I actually have a friend starting there in the fa after being denied at Suffolk and everyother Boston school. Wouldn't catch me there.


tram you are like the OS of BC Law

tram988
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby tram988 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:27 pm

Hahaha. I love the school! I just think it doesn't receive the attention it deserves on TLS. We always seem to find ourselves in the same threads :p

finn17
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby finn17 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:35 pm

I just think there are fewer ties higher up on the list than last year. BU, Emory, and Minnesota are all -2. Last year, a bunch of schools shared the 20 spot and this year it's 28. I think that as Indiana continues to settle back down, BC will rise up. I had to decide between Iowa and BC, and I am surprised to see Iowa hang on in this economy. In the end, I chose BC for job placement, not because of the rankings. I did get the vibe at BCs ASD that the school was a bit stagnant.

In deciding between BC and other schools, I felt that much of BCs faculty is focused on teaching rather than their own scholarship. There are pros and cons to that, but I decided their focus on students appeals to me. Their law review operation seems a bit second tier to me compared to schools like BU and Iowa. I think they could do more to make it a top tier journal.

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RVP11
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby RVP11 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:37 pm

bceagles182 wrote:BC and BU both each fell this year by two spots. My inclination is to attribute the drop to the abysmal employment scene in Boston at the moment. Regardless, BC's LSAT median went up two points this year from 164 to 166. I wouldn't be worried.


LOL if you think short term changes in employment prospects affect the rankings that much.

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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby kams » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:15 pm

tram988 wrote:Posts likethese make me laugh. BC keep raising it's medians. The rankings fluctuate. BC has never since 1987 left the top 30 and I don't think it ever will. I still think bc is undervalued relative to it's nlj250 placement and federal clerkship data.


BC's still pretty good, although 28 doesn't look great. And you have to keep in mind that while BC is raising its medians, so are most schools.

I think it's actually kinda funny how if BU and BC had switched spots (BC had dropped from 20 to 22, and BU had dropped from 26 to 28) I think you would be all over BU about how it's declining and will soon be out of the T30, but BC over the last seven years years has been going strong between 19-22. Not saying that's how I feel, but I think you would. I just get that impression the way you jumped all over BU and posted like 50 times an hour when the mistaken NLJ placement rankings came out. But maybe I'm wrong.

imisscollege
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby imisscollege » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:18 pm

kams wrote:
tram988 wrote:Posts likethese make me laugh. BC keep raising it's medians. The rankings fluctuate. BC has never since 1987 left the top 30 and I don't think it ever will. I still think bc is undervalued relative to it's nlj250 placement and federal clerkship data.


BC's still pretty good, although 28 doesn't look great. And you have to keep in mind that while BC is raising its medians, so are most schools.

I think it's actually kinda funny how if BU and BC had switched spots (BC had dropped from 20 to 22, and BU had dropped from 26 to 28) I think you would be all over BU about how it's declining and will soon be out of the T30, but BC over the last seven years years has been going strong between 19-22. Not saying that's how I feel, but I think you would. I just get that impression the way you jumped all over BU and posted like 50 times an hour when the mistaken NLJ placement rankings came out. But maybe I'm wrong.


On that note, and similar to my OP, why is BU ranked so high (relatively)? Is it just the difference in GPA from BC? Their peer assessments are the same. I have seen evidence that says BC places better. Is it a scholarly faculty thing?

tram988
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby tram988 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:42 pm

kams wrote:
tram988 wrote:Posts likethese make me laugh. BC keep raising it's medians. The rankings fluctuate. BC has never since 1987 left the top 30 and I don't think it ever will. I still think bc is undervalued relative to it's nlj250 placement and federal clerkship data.


BC's still pretty good, although 28 doesn't look great. And you have to keep in mind that while BC is raising its medians, so are most schools.

I think it's actually kinda funny how if BU and BC had switched spots (BC had dropped from 20 to 22, and BU had dropped from 26 to 28) I think you would be all over BU about how it's declining and will soon be out of the T30, but BC over the last seven years years has been going strong between 19-22. Not saying that's how I feel, but I think you would. I just get that impression the way you jumped all over BU and posted like 50 times an hour when the mistaken NLJ placement rankings came out. But maybe I'm wrong.


50 times an hour? Hardly. I know it sucks not being able to say BU is a top 20 anymore though :P Can't blame me for posting information that seemed legit at the time. I find it sketchy that they went back and changed it so both BU and BC are placing at precisely 34.6%. I'm giving BC the attention is deserves. For the record, I dont think BC or BU will be leaving the top 30 anytime soon.

tram988
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby tram988 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:43 pm

imisscollege wrote:
kams wrote:
tram988 wrote:Posts likethese make me laugh. BC keep raising it's medians. The rankings fluctuate. BC has never since 1987 left the top 30 and I don't think it ever will. I still think bc is undervalued relative to it's nlj250 placement and federal clerkship data.


BC's still pretty good, although 28 doesn't look great. And you have to keep in mind that while BC is raising its medians, so are most schools.

I think it's actually kinda funny how if BU and BC had switched spots (BC had dropped from 20 to 22, and BU had dropped from 26 to 28) I think you would be all over BU about how it's declining and will soon be out of the T30, but BC over the last seven years years has been going strong between 19-22. Not saying that's how I feel, but I think you would. I just get that impression the way you jumped all over BU and posted like 50 times an hour when the mistaken NLJ placement rankings came out. But maybe I'm wrong.


On that note, and similar to my OP, why is BU ranked so high (relatively)? Is it just the difference in GPA from BC? Their peer assessments are the same. I have seen evidence that says BC places better. Is it a scholarly faculty thing?


BU is more selective with its GPA/LSAT

imisscollege
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby imisscollege » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:50 pm

it's just gpa. same LSAT. so my question is--is that the only reason?

tram988
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby tram988 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:55 pm

imisscollege wrote:it's just gpa. same LSAT. so my question is--is that the only reason?


The peer review and peer assessment ranking remains the same as BU. The employed at graduation is difference-- BU (90%) BC (86%) . We all know those can be fudged easily though.

BU has raised their 25th LSAT to a 164, BC rose to a 163.


On another note to Kam, the reason I posted the NLJ250 numbers when they came out was because you, or someone else, said BC students have no statistics to back up their law firm placement when in fact we have an abundance of data to choose from.
Last edited by tram988 on Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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GobiasIndustries
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby GobiasIndustries » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:16 pm

Well, I hope not.

I hear BU inflates their employed at graduation statistics. A lot.

sullidop
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby sullidop » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:23 pm

oh USNWR. They should really just place the schools into peer groups. Is there a measurable difference between BC and BU? Nope. Illinois and Fordham? Probably not. All the threads like this are so pointless--either you're t3, t14, fringe t14, t30ish, t50ish, t100.

BC has always been a t30ish school. Whether they choose to rank it 20 or 30 doesn't change a thing.

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UFMatt
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby UFMatt » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:29 pm

When I toured BU, it came across as very professional, yet the 3L giving the tour didn't have a job yet, nor did many of her friends apparently. I definitely got the sense that the Boston legal market was in the tank.

I didn't tour BC, so I can't compare.

imisscollege
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby imisscollege » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:35 pm

UFMatt wrote:When I toured BU, it came across as very professional, yet the 3L giving the tour didn't have a job yet, nor did many of her friends apparently. I definitely got the sense that the Boston legal market was in the tank.

I didn't tour BC, so I can't compare.


BC's tour guide was hooked up to do a federal clerkship and then all set up to work at Ropes and Grey after. So there's that? (Holy unrepresentative sample though, right?)

doomed123
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby doomed123 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:40 pm

sullidop wrote:oh USNWR. They should really just place the schools into peer groups. Is there a measurable difference between BC and BU? Nope. Illinois and Fordham? Probably not. All the threads like this are so pointless--either you're t3, t14, fringe t14, t30ish, t50ish, t100.

BC has always been a t30ish school. Whether they choose to rank it 20 or 30 doesn't change a thing.


+1

Year-to-year fluctuations within a mini-tier (like T20-30) are essentially meaningless. Over the years, BU and BC have switched back and forth in the rankings, but their placement has remained roughly the same.

kams
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Re: Is BC on a gradual decline?

Postby kams » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:33 pm

tram988 wrote:
kams wrote:
tram988 wrote:Posts likethese make me laugh. BC keep raising it's medians. The rankings fluctuate. BC has never since 1987 left the top 30 and I don't think it ever will. I still think bc is undervalued relative to it's nlj250 placement and federal clerkship data.


BC's still pretty good, although 28 doesn't look great. And you have to keep in mind that while BC is raising its medians, so are most schools.

I think it's actually kinda funny how if BU and BC had switched spots (BC had dropped from 20 to 22, and BU had dropped from 26 to 28) I think you would be all over BU about how it's declining and will soon be out of the T30, but BC over the last seven years years has been going strong between 19-22. Not saying that's how I feel, but I think you would. I just get that impression the way you jumped all over BU and posted like 50 times an hour when the mistaken NLJ placement rankings came out. But maybe I'm wrong.


50 times an hour? Hardly. I know it sucks not being able to say BU is a top 20 anymore though :P Can't blame me for posting information that seemed legit at the time. I find it sketchy that they went back and changed it so both BU and BC are placing at precisely 34.6%. I'm giving BC the attention is deserves. For the record, I dont think BC or BU will be leaving the top 30 anytime soon.


Yeah, in all honesty I did like the T20 label. T25 doesn't really have the same ring to it. Now people will get us mixed up with BC. Oh wait, BC is barely T30 now.

I'm saying this in fun. BC is a good school and I think deserves to be ranked higher. Just gettin ya back for your funny BU attacks when you thought that BU placed so much worse than BC. You can't blame me.




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