what does everyone hate American University on this site?

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Teoeo
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:16 pm

But your chart shows AU ahead of Catholic in the NLJ 250 and Clerkships and it also shows Catholic with a way higher unemployment rate which would support my previous analogy of GW having more gov work than GULC.

EDIT: I agree GM is a better choice than AU, I never said it wasn't, but not everyone has those options.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby NU_Jet55 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:18 pm

FunkyJD wrote:There's not much difference between Mason and AU in that respect, which is why it makes no sense to pay more to go to AU.


If I go to AU, then I'll be paying less than I would have been at GMU.

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Teoeo
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:18 pm

NU_Jet55 wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:There's not much difference between Mason and AU in that respect, which is why it makes no sense to pay more to go to AU.


If I go to AU, then I'll be paying less than I would have been at GMU.


then go to AU =D

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FunkyJD
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby FunkyJD » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:24 pm

Teoeo wrote:But your chart shows AU ahead of Catholic in the NLJ 250 and Clerkships and it also shows Catholic with a way higher unemployment rate which would support my previous analogy of GW having more gov work than GULC.

EDIT: I agree GM is a better choice than AU, I never said it wasn't, but not everyone has those options.


Don't lose sight of the original argument. The argument is, does it make sense to pay sticker at AU if the objective is to get a job in the federal government? Answer: No.

The evidence I presented regarding federal hiring at the other schools, including Catholic, is to show that you're not getting enough of a benefit at AU versus those other schools to justify paying sticker at AU, with or without IBR.

Catholic COA: $49k/yr
AU COA: $65k/yr

I wouldn't willingly pay sticker for either, but if forced to at gunpoint, with the objective of landing a federal government job in DC, I'd go with Catholic. If you can get into AU, you can probably get into Catholic.

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FunkyJD
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby FunkyJD » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:27 pm

NU_Jet55 wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:There's not much difference between Mason and AU in that respect, which is why it makes no sense to pay more to go to AU.


If I go to AU, then I'll be paying less than I would have been at GMU.

If it's cheaper, go to AU.
Last edited by FunkyJD on Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Teoeo
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:29 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
Teoeo wrote:But your chart shows AU ahead of Catholic in the NLJ 250 and Clerkships and it also shows Catholic with a way higher unemployment rate which would support my previous analogy of GW having more gov work than GULC.

EDIT: I agree GM is a better choice than AU, I never said it wasn't, but not everyone has those options.


Don't lose sight of the original argument. The argument is, does it make sense to pay sticker at AU if the objective is to get a job in the federal government? Answer: No.

The evidence I presented regarding federal hiring at the other schools, including Catholic, is to show that you're not getting enough of a benefit at AU versus those other schools to justify paying sticker at AU, with or without IBR.

Catholic COA: $49k/yr
AU COA: $65k/yr

I wouldn't willingly pay sticker for either, but if forced to at gunpoint, with the objective of landing a federal government job in DC, I'd go with Catholic. If you can get into AU, you can probably get into Catholic.


Don't lose sight of my point: that your data is meaningless. I believe that if everyone at AU wanted a federal job, a significantly higher percentage of them would land them over Catholic. The fact that more people from Catholic work for government doesn't mean that they have an edge in that area. For example, a pretty large percentage of McGeorge graduates work in government, more than UC Davis, but I wouldnt take McGeorge over Davis if I wanted to work in government.

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FunkyJD
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby FunkyJD » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:32 pm

Teoeo wrote:Don't lose sight of my point: that your data is meaningless. I believe that if everyone at AU wanted a federal job, a significantly higher percentage of them would land them over Catholic. The fact that more people from Catholic work for government doesn't mean that they have an edge in that area. For example, a pretty large percentage of McGeorge graduates work in government, more than UC Davis, but I wouldnt take McGeorge over Davis if I wanted to work in government.

So essentially, are you saying that due to self-selection on the part of WCL grads, they place in the federal government in DC in lower percentages than do the kids at Catholic ... or, due to the failure of Catholic kids to end up in the private sector in DC, they end up in federal government jobs?

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Teoeo
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:34 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
Teoeo wrote:Don't lose sight of my point: that your data is meaningless. I believe that if everyone at AU wanted a federal job, a significantly higher percentage of them would land them over Catholic. The fact that more people from Catholic work for government doesn't mean that they have an edge in that area. For example, a pretty large percentage of McGeorge graduates work in government, more than UC Davis, but I wouldnt take McGeorge over Davis if I wanted to work in government.

So essentially, are you saying that due to self-selection on the part of WCL grads, they place in the federal government in DC in lower percentages than do the kids at Catholic ... or, due to the failure of Catholic kids to end up in the private sector in DC, they end up in federal government jobs?


Both. It is common for government % to go up as you go down the rankings.

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Teoeo
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:36 pm

I think it all depends on options, if you have choices like GM, i would definately go there, but I wouldn't NOT go to law school because my only choice is AU.

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Teoeo
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:36 pm

hurray for double negative ^_^

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Not-A-Teabagger
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Not-A-Teabagger » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:43 pm

The speculations and assumptions that 0L's make on TLS are laughable. You guys are just regurgitating each others speculations and assumptions. To whomever opened this thread up, DO NOT RELY SOLELY ON TLS FOR ADVICE!!! CONSULT OUTSIDE COUNSEL!!!!

American is a good school, that is well respected in D.C. There is a reason that D.C. is considered the most recession proof big city in the country. There is also a reason that almost 1 in 12 people in the city are lawyers.

Because there are good paying legal jobs in the city. If there weren't, then 1 in 12 people couldn't afford to live in the city.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby D. H2Oman » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:43 pm

Not-A-Teabagger wrote:[strike]The speculations and assumptions that 0L's make on TLS are laughable. You guys are just regurgitating each others speculations and assumptions. To whomever opened this thread up, DO NOT RELY SOLELY ON TLS FOR ADVICE!!! CONSULT OUTSIDE COUNSEL!!!!

American is a good school, that is well respected in D.C. There is a reason that D.C. is considered the most recession proof big city in the country. There is also a reason that almost 1 in 12 people in the city are lawyers.

Because there are good paying legal jobs in the city. If there weren't, then 1 in 12 people couldn't afford to live in the city.[/strike]


I want to teabag you.

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Teoeo
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:44 pm

Not-A-Teabagger wrote:The speculations and assumptions that 0L's make on TLS are laughable. You guys are just regurgitating each others speculations and assumptions. To whomever opened this thread up, DO NOT RELY SOLELY ON TLS FOR ADVICE!!! CONSULT OUTSIDE COUNSEL!!!!

American is a good school, that is well respected in D.C. There is a reason that D.C. is considered the most recession proof big city in the country. There is also a reason that almost 1 in 12 people in the city are lawyers.

Because there are good paying legal jobs in the city. If there weren't, then 1 in 12 people couldn't afford to live in the city.


Lol but the irony is that I am part of TLS and I was arguing your point.

EDIT: makes me reconsider my point -_-'

MidlawMyth
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby MidlawMyth » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:45 pm

bIu3b1rd wrote:
elle86 wrote:American's price has been a sticking point for me.

I don't know if I should go to American (sticker price so approx. 180k in debt), or go to a TTT (I got a half tuition scholly, plus very low living expenses because I will be living with my sister for free so about 60k in debt). I am interested in working for the government (I am working on the Hill right now), and I don't want to be strapped down with debt since I know the job I get out of LS will not be six figures... but American is a much better school than the TTT...

Any advice?



Honestly, I say take the plunge and go to American... If you're thinking about going public or government, then GradPLUS loans will help you out a lot. The payment matches your salary, and if you stay in public work for 10 years, then it goes away. Look into the whole GradPLUS thing, and check and see how much of your tuition in your financial aid package is covered by that kind of loan. Also, if you want to work in DC, then I think American would give you better placement options and make you more competitive against the Georgetown, GW, GM, and UVA.
WRONG.

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Teoeo
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:47 pm

MidlawMyth wrote:
bIu3b1rd wrote:
elle86 wrote:American's price has been a sticking point for me.

I don't know if I should go to American (sticker price so approx. 180k in debt), or go to a TTT (I got a half tuition scholly, plus very low living expenses because I will be living with my sister for free so about 60k in debt). I am interested in working for the government (I am working on the Hill right now), and I don't want to be strapped down with debt since I know the job I get out of LS will not be six figures... but American is a much better school than the TTT...

Any advice?



Honestly, I say take the plunge and go to American... If you're thinking about going public or government, then GradPLUS loans will help you out a lot. The payment matches your salary, and if you stay in public work for 10 years, then it goes away. Look into the whole GradPLUS thing, and check and see how much of your tuition in your financial aid package is covered by that kind of loan. Also, if you want to work in DC, then I think American would give you better placement options and make you more competitive against the Georgetown, GW, GM, and UVA.
WRONG.


Succinct and to the point xD

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Not-A-Teabagger
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Not-A-Teabagger » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:57 pm

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

Just thought I would toss the more recent data out. You guys ragging on American should be ashamed of yourselves for not at least showing both of these, as I know, being good TLS's, you knew this existed.

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FunkyJD
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby FunkyJD » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:01 pm

Not-A-Teabagger wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

Just thought I would toss the more recent data out. You guys ragging on American should be ashamed of yourselves for not at least showing both of these, as I know, being good TLS's, you knew this existed.

That's nice ... WCL almost places as well as Howard in the 250. :P

*ducks and covers*

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Teoeo
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:05 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
Not-A-Teabagger wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

Just thought I would toss the more recent data out. You guys ragging on American should be ashamed of yourselves for not at least showing both of these, as I know, being good TLS's, you knew this existed.

That's nice ... WCL almost places as well as Howard in the 250. :P

*ducks and covers*


lol

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Not-A-Teabagger
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Not-A-Teabagger » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:05 pm

Always Credited wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:
Always Credited wrote:DC placement slightly below that of GWU, way above that of American.


Source?



I'm not going to compile and cite the loads of information available from the websites of major DC firms, government agencies and PI organizations, and 3rd party groups formatting this data simply for your viewing pleasue. I took the time to do it for myself; you're a big boy...you can either trust me, or take the time out of your undoubtedly busy life and do it for yourself, too, if its a matter of enough importance to warrant such an action.

edit: Hint: trust me.


Who is this guy? Flame...or idiot? Why would you come on here to give advice, and then refuse to give advice?

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Not-A-Teabagger
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Not-A-Teabagger » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:06 pm

Teoeo wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:
Not-A-Teabagger wrote:http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

Just thought I would toss the more recent data out. You guys ragging on American should be ashamed of yourselves for not at least showing both of these, as I know, being good TLS's, you knew this existed.

That's nice ... WCL almost places as well as Howard in the 250. :P

*ducks and covers*


lol


Hey, at least the University of Richmond isn't on there anymore.

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FunkyJD
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby FunkyJD » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:12 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
Teoeo wrote:Don't lose sight of my point: that your data is meaningless. I believe that if everyone at AU wanted a federal job, a significantly higher percentage of them would land them over Catholic. The fact that more people from Catholic work for government doesn't mean that they have an edge in that area. For example, a pretty large percentage of McGeorge graduates work in government, more than UC Davis, but I wouldnt take McGeorge over Davis if I wanted to work in government.

So essentially, are you saying that due to self-selection on the part of WCL grads, they place in the federal government in DC in lower percentages than do the kids at Catholic ... or, due to the failure of Catholic kids to end up in the private sector in DC, they end up in federal government jobs?

But seriously, though ... and I'm trying to not be an ass about this ... but how can we assume this? How does this work? If you're not competitive for biglaw in DC, and you're not competitive for midlaw, how are you competitive for an attorney position with the feds?

Is it that Catholic kids end up working for the feds in "lesser" federal attorney gigs? What are examples of these? And by comparison, what are the most coveted federal attorney gigs? DOJ? Treasury? Defense/national security agencies? A-list congressional committees? White House Counsel's office?

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Always Credited
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Always Credited » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:14 pm

Not-A-Teabagger wrote:
Always Credited wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:
Always Credited wrote:DC placement slightly below that of GWU, way above that of American.


Source?



I'm not going to compile and cite the loads of information available from the websites of major DC firms, government agencies and PI organizations, and 3rd party groups formatting this data simply for your viewing pleasue. I took the time to do it for myself; you're a big boy...you can either trust me, or take the time out of your undoubtedly busy life and do it for yourself, too, if its a matter of enough importance to warrant such an action.

edit: Hint: trust me.


Who is this guy? Flame...or idiot? Why would you come on here to give advice, and then refuse to give advice?


Speaking of idiot...

Read my posts previous to that where I did give advice: to not attend American University. I substantiated that claim with my reasons, for which he than demanded proof. I told him I've spent the time to compile my own evidence on recent law employment trends, and I would advice him to do the same. The fact that he believes attendance at American to be a good idea shows he has done no such research of his own into the legal field. I don't do homework for other people.

edit: To anyone here that wants to attend American at sticker, go for it. I personally don't care what happens to you. I'm just saying that, relevant to the thread title, its a bad idea - that's why TLS rips on American.
Last edited by Always Credited on Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Not-A-Teabagger
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Not-A-Teabagger » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:16 pm

FunkyJD wrote:
FunkyJD wrote:
Teoeo wrote:Don't lose sight of my point: that your data is meaningless. I believe that if everyone at AU wanted a federal job, a significantly higher percentage of them would land them over Catholic. The fact that more people from Catholic work for government doesn't mean that they have an edge in that area. For example, a pretty large percentage of McGeorge graduates work in government, more than UC Davis, but I wouldnt take McGeorge over Davis if I wanted to work in government.

So essentially, are you saying that due to self-selection on the part of WCL grads, they place in the federal government in DC in lower percentages than do the kids at Catholic ... or, due to the failure of Catholic kids to end up in the private sector in DC, they end up in federal government jobs?

But seriously, though ... and I'm trying to not be an ass about this ... but how can we assume this? How does this work? If you're not competitive for biglaw in DC, and you're not competitive for midlaw, how are you competitive for an attorney position with the feds?

Is it that Catholic kids end up working for the feds in "lesser" federal attorney gigs? What are examples of these? And by comparison, what are the most coveted federal attorney gigs? DOJ? Treasury? Defense/national security agencies? A-list congressional committees? White House Counsel's office?


I think his point is simply that a higher percentage of AU grads choose to take higher paying jobs in the private sector, and that these jobs are less available for Catholic grads. Thus, Catholic grads end up working for the federal government in higher numbers. Just stating my thoughts on his point, i.e. not my opinion.

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Not-A-Teabagger
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby Not-A-Teabagger » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:18 pm

Perhaps not an idiot but rather a jackass? We are not your fellow classmates jockeying for a higher class rank here, A-Credited.
Last edited by Not-A-Teabagger on Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rayiner
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Re: what does everyone hate American University on this site?

Postby rayiner » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:21 pm

bIu3b1rd wrote:I get that the price is high considering the ranking, but aside from that, why does everyone seem to bash AU around here?


Bastion of fluffy pseudo-intellectual political liberalism.




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