Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

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Allyn
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby Allyn » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:30 am

rayiner wrote:If you want biglaw then want to transition into something non law related but good, you need to go to Chicago. No. Brainer.


While it'd be way far in the future, I'm thinking more along the lines of going back to school to become a counselor or teach or something. I'm talking COMPLETELY non-law related where salary/prestige is not the concern.

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:33 am

Allyn wrote:
rayiner wrote:If you want biglaw then want to transition into something non law related but good, you need to go to Chicago. No. Brainer.


While it'd be way far in the future, I'm thinking more along the lines of going back to school to become a counselor or teach or something. I'm talking COMPLETELY non-law related where salary/prestige is not the concern.

Why not do this right now instead of wasting three years of your life in law school?

The only reasonable explanation, IMO.. is that you are somewhat puzzled as to what you want your future to look like. If this assumption is true, BU may not be the best.

Again, I am not trying to be a dick. I'm trying to be a devil's advocate. BU may very well be the best for you.. I don't know you as well as you know yourself. :)

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rayiner
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby rayiner » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:37 am

Allyn wrote:
rayiner wrote:If you want biglaw then want to transition into something non law related but good, you need to go to Chicago. No. Brainer.


While it'd be way far in the future, I'm thinking more along the lines of going back to school to become a counselor or teach or something. I'm talking COMPLETELY non-law related where salary/prestige is not the concern.


Okay... in that case full ride at BU makes sense (less time to pay off loans), but biglaw is a slim prospect.

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creamedcats
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby creamedcats » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:44 am

I think you're making a great decision, as long as you feel you've fully examined all your options following law school. The advantage of the T14 is that you get more choices - if you already have ruled most of those out, no problem. Enjoy Boston.

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rayiner
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby rayiner » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:53 am

creamedcats wrote:I think you're making a great decision, as long as you feel you've fully examined all your options following law school. The advantage of the T14 is that you get more choices - if you already have ruled most of those out, no problem. Enjoy Boston.


No, the advantage of T14 is that biglaw is actually a reasonable expectation.

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john158
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby john158 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:23 am

fortissimo wrote:
dakatz wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Wouldn't you need to be top 10-15% to get biglaw from BU?


I would think it has to be better than this. And keep in mind that its not like we are talking the Class of 2011 here. Class of 2013 has a 2-year buffer on them that will hopefully allow the economy a bit of time to recover.


http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

Keep in mind these people had OCI in 2007. Top 1/3 back then is probably equal to around top 15% now, if that, given how much biglaw has been cut at top 14s. The class of 2013 will have OCI next year - that's not that much time for the economy to recover. I wouldn't hedge my bets, going in, on graduating top 1/3 or higher at any school.


Can someone clarify the OCI process briefly? I thought OCI was for second and third year students, so at earliest, the class of 2013 will have OCI in their second year, which would be in the spring of 2012 (assuming 2L students start interviewing in the second half of the second year). Therefore, the class of 2013 would not have their OCI next year (2011).

Edit: after browsing some OCI pages on law school sites, it seems that firms interview second year students in the Fall immediately before the 2L year begins. That would mean the class of 2013 would interview as second year students in the Fall of 2011, which is not that far off but it does give the economy some time to recover.

This leads me to a question: which is more important, second year or third year OCI?
Last edited by john158 on Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby 09042014 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:24 am

john158 wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
dakatz wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Wouldn't you need to be top 10-15% to get biglaw from BU?


I would think it has to be better than this. And keep in mind that its not like we are talking the Class of 2011 here. Class of 2013 has a 2-year buffer on them that will hopefully allow the economy a bit of time to recover.


http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

Keep in mind these people had OCI in 2007. Top 1/3 back then is probably equal to around top 15% now, if that, given how much biglaw has been cut at top 14s. The class of 2013 will have OCI next year - that's not that much time for the economy to recover. I wouldn't hedge my bets, going in, on graduating top 1/3 or higher at any school.


Can someone clarify the OCI process briefly? I thought OCI was for second and third year students, so at earliest, the class of 2013 will have OCI in their second year, which would be in the spring of 2012 (assuming 2L students start interviewing in the second half of the second year). Therefore, the class of 2013 would not have their OCI next year (2011).


OCI happens fall of 2L year.

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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby dakatz » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:39 am

OP certainly has some guts to turn down those offers for BU. And I thought I was crazy turning down Cornell for the 70K LESS expensive BU (which would put me in about 15-20K total debt). Obviously OP is smart to have gotten those offers and will likely do well. Given his/her long-term goals and current circumstances, I wouldn't say crazy. Gutsy, but not crazy.

I spent most of the night on my own personal BU/Cornell dilemma, and I came to the realization that I don't think I want to force myself into one of those NYC big-firm jobs (not that the chances of that even out of Cornell are so great ITE). I feel like a no-debt scenario will allow me a lot less stress, which sets me up to do well and more easily follow where my heart lies in the law. And its not like I'm sacrificing some super prestigious school for a shithole. The differences between Cornell and BU don't seem terribly stark enough as to justify the additional stress that 100K in debt, plus 3 years away from my gf of 5 years would bring me.

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Allyn
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby Allyn » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:51 am

I guess "best local Boston job" is about as vague as I can get :P Ideally I'd like to be working in the field of tax/finance law or IP law (a long shot, given my non-technical background), with a salary that's higher than what my BA degree could get me.

(And agreed that the LR point is moot.)

Despite my lifetime goals, I definitely disagree that I'd be wasting 3 years of my life by going to LS now. While it's something I decided on only recently in the grand scheme of things - I happened upon an intro law class in undergrad and my professor mentioned that I should consider going to law - I thoroughly enjoy the subject and am quite enthusiastic about the intellectual challenge of law school. Law is not the be-all-end-all career for me, but I'm sure it's what I want to be involved with now and into the near future.

No worries, JollyGreenGiant, I don't think you're a dick at all. I appreciate you trying to get me to really think about all aspects of the decision.

Thank you all for replying - just typing out and organizing my thoughts has helped me and what was what I was looking for when I created this thread. Feel free to continue posting, although no guarantees that I'll be checking back obsessively to reply.

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starrydecisus
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby starrydecisus » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:43 am

Allyn wrote:I guess "best local Boston job" is about as vague as I can get :P Ideally I'd like to be working in the field of tax/finance law or IP law (a long shot, given my non-technical background), with a salary that's higher than what my BA degree could get me.

(And agreed that the LR point is moot.)

Despite my lifetime goals, I definitely disagree that I'd be wasting 3 years of my life by going to LS now. While it's something I decided on only recently in the grand scheme of things - I happened upon an intro law class in undergrad and my professor mentioned that I should consider going to law - I thoroughly enjoy the subject and am quite enthusiastic about the intellectual challenge of law school. Law is not the be-all-end-all career for me, but I'm sure it's what I want to be involved with now and into the near future.

No worries, JollyGreenGiant, I don't think you're a dick at all. I appreciate you trying to get me to really think about all aspects of the decision.

Thank you all for replying - just typing out and organizing my thoughts has helped me and what was what I was looking for when I created this thread. Feel free to continue posting, although no guarantees that I'll be checking back obsessively to reply.


Go to the school you love!!! That's the way that you'll be happiness. And if that's BU, you should go!

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Always Credited
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby Always Credited » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:44 am

rayiner wrote:If you want biglaw then want to transition into something non law related but good, you need to go to Chicago. No. Brainer.

Rawlsian
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby Rawlsian » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:46 am

If BU's major competition here is Cornell, the latest numbers do not show that much of a disparity:
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml

09042014
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:48 am

Rawlsian wrote:If BU's major competition here is Cornell, the latest numbers do not show that much of a disparity:
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml


Uhhh, that link shows Cornell is three times better than BU at placing into elite firms.

Rawlsian
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby Rawlsian » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:50 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:If BU's major competition here is Cornell, the latest numbers do not show that much of a disparity:
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml


Uhhh, that link shows Cornell is three times better than BU at placing into elite firms.


Yea, my bad, I meant to provide this link:
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

But as you can see, for V100 firms, Cornell does a lot better.

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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby dakatz » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:51 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Rawlsian wrote:If BU's major competition here is Cornell, the latest numbers do not show that much of a disparity:
http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2008job_biglaw.shtml


Uhhh, that link shows Cornell is three times better than BU at placing into elite firms.


But those stats represent data collected a good 3 or 4 years ago, so I don't think its all that relevant anymore. If the go-to schools list is any indication, the gap between Cornell and BU isn't as great as it was when Cornell was able to sent off over half their class into NYC biglaw jobs.
Last edited by dakatz on Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kiersten1985
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby Kiersten1985 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:52 am

If you're crazy then so am I. I'm turning down $30k at Michigan for BU. It's just where I feel comfortable. I wanted to killself in Ann Arbor. :shock:

Full disclosure: I'm a BU alum, from Boston and plan on settling in Boston within the next 10 years or so. Not sure if that's the case for you.

But hope to see you in the fall!

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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby dakatz » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:55 am

Kiersten1985 wrote:If you're crazy than so am I. I'm turning down $30k at Michigan for BU. It's just where I feel comfortable. I wanted to killself in Ann Arbor. :shock:


I think the fact that I'm not the only one making the "BU over a higher ranked school" decision is making it a bit easier on me to accept. Btw, I sent in my deposit today, but I'm waiting on a re-negotiated scholarship from Cornell so they extended my deadline. Barring any substantial change in that financial aid package, I think its BU for me as well. We should meet up at BU and form the "I can't believe we all turned down T-14 schools" club.
Last edited by dakatz on Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DerrickRose
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby DerrickRose » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:57 am

The (oft discredited) theory that your overqualified-ness in the admissions process will translate into your grades is relevant here.

dakatz
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby dakatz » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:03 pm

DerrickRose wrote:The (oft discredited) theory that your overqualified-ness in the admissions process will translate into your grades is relevant here.


I know. I feel like someone who busts their ass working hard and studies the RIGHT way will do well no matter where they go, whether it be BU, Michigan, Cornell, or any lower ranked schools. And at the same time, a lack of full effort will not fly, no matter how smart the student or the rank of the school.

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby whuts4lunch » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:04 pm

At UMiami the scholarship students pwn the class ranks. I don't know if the same holds true at the higher ranked schools.

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theskippa10
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby theskippa10 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:06 pm

Something else to consider is that Boston is one of the more insular markets in the country. They love hometown boys and girls, and ones that stay. I mean you're not going to get a biglaw job at median at BU/BC most of the time, but showing a hometown connection and being in a good MA school always helps.

dakatz
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby dakatz » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:10 pm

theskippa10 wrote:Something else to consider is that Boston is one of the more insular markets in the country. They love hometown boys and girls, and ones that stay. I mean you're not going to get a biglaw job at median at BU/BC most of the time, but showing a hometown connection and being in a good MA school always helps.


I think thats one of the things drawing me to BU over Cornell, the fact that I can network and make contacts on a pretty much daily basis. The city is always right there, so meeting up with people is easy, and my undergrad professors set me up with contacts all the time in Boston. If so much of law hiring is contacts, then this has to be an asset in the long-run.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby Vincent Vega » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:10 pm

I certainly don't have the big T14 scholarships you have, but I also turned down schools with significantly higher rankings in order to take a T30 full ride. You should know what's best in your situation than anyone else. I say go for it.

mailmanstalker
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby mailmanstalker » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:11 pm

tamlyric wrote:I think you'd be half-crazy to turn down BU for $$ at T14s.

1. You want to work and live in Boston.
2. You want to work in law for only 7-10 years.
3. You have a full-ride offer from BU, which is probably going to place in Boston nearly (if not) as well most T14s.
4. You have visited BU and came away feeling good (if not great) about the school.

It seems to me that the only reason to turn down BU for some T14 is *IF* you want to leave a variety of other options open--that is, on the off-chance that your preferences for your future change from those stated in (1) and (2) above.


++1

motiontodismiss
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Re: Convince me I'm crazy -- turning down $$ at T14s for BU

Postby motiontodismiss » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:34 pm

Have you lost your mind man?




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