BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

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dakatz
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BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:41 pm

Sorry that I'm posting on this again, but seeing as I'm a day away from my final decision, I'm stressing more than ever over this. Its looking more and more like my longtime girlfriend (5 years and counting), will be working in Boston come September. Plus BU would leave me with very little debt, close to zero in fact. I have a whole network of contacts and friends in the city. I guess it is more of the fact that my gf will be there that is creating this dilemma.

Is anyone going the way of a long-distance relationship in law school? I know a 6 hour drive isn't terrible, but I certainly can't be making that trip often with all the studying I will be doing.

Cornell would cost me about 70K more, but are the employment prospects from Cornell so much better than BU as to justify moving away from my girlfriend, and going 70K more into debt? Keep in mind that I'm fine working anywhere in the northeast, whether it is New England or the mid-Atlantic. I'm just looking for any opinion on this, since I'm slowly driving myself insane thinking about it. I'd make a poll, but I'm looking more for your thoughts, than just a Cornell/BU vote. Thanks so much, guys.

pollaclc
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby pollaclc » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:46 pm

dakatz wrote: Plus BU would leave me with very little debt, close to zero in fact. I have a whole network of contacts and friends in the city. I guess it is more of the fact that my gf will be there that is creating this dilemma.
Cornell would cost me about 70K more


contacts & networking = huge part of getting a job. dont let your gf pressure you into boston, though. it has to be because you want it.


are the employment prospects from Cornell so much better than BU as to justify moving away from my girlfriend, and going 70K more into debt?
no.

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hiromoto45
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby hiromoto45 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:48 pm

FWI I think long distance would be better for the relationship because you will have time to study. If you are in the same place you will have to make time to see your girlfriend whereas if you are away you can just plan a trip/weekend to see each other.

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jks289
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby jks289 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:52 pm

I wasn't enamored with BU when I visited but purely from an employment/opportunity standpoint I don't see passing BU almost full ride up for Cornell. I think the only reason the chose Cornell (outside of personal preference) is if you had a scholarship or felt being regionally limited to the northeast (not to say you would be, but worse case scenario) would be a bad thing.

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jks289
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby jks289 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:54 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:FWI I think long distance would be better for the relationship because you will have time to study. If you are in the same place you will have to make time to see your girlfriend whereas if you are away you can just plan a trip/weekend to see each other.


Assuming a 5 year plus relationship is as much like a marriage as anything, I don't think this advice holds.

dakatz
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:00 pm

jks289 wrote:I wasn't enamored with BU when I visited but purely from an employment/opportunity standpoint I don't see passing BU almost full ride up for Cornell. I think the only reason the chose Cornell (outside of personal preference) is if you had a scholarship or felt being regionally limited to the northeast (not to say you would be, but worse case scenario) would be a bad thing.


I did get a scholarship from Cornell, but Cornell charges quite a bit more in tuition. Total debt out of BU is around 20K, but probably will come out to even less than that. Maybe around 15K total if I can get the same price apartment I had during undergrad. Cornell will most likely be closer to 85K, but thats not taking into account any tuition increase, which will make it over 90K total debt.

dakatz
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:05 pm

Does anyone have any employment stats that paint a better picture? What I'm scared of is that I would be sacrificing a chance at good employment if I go for BU over Cornell.

dakatz
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:12 pm

jks289 wrote:
hiromoto45 wrote:FWI I think long distance would be better for the relationship because you will have time to study. If you are in the same place you will have to make time to see your girlfriend whereas if you are away you can just plan a trip/weekend to see each other.


Assuming a 5 year plus relationship is as much like a marriage as anything, I don't think this advice holds.


Yeah, we've always been good about putting study first. Even if I was in the same city, as we were for undergrad, I still keep the priorities straight.

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Blindmelon
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:20 pm

Long distance is a killer. I've seen it at law school - people stress out over their SO and have to fly/drive around to see them. It unneeded stress/pressure especially if you think you're going to end up with her.
Little to no debt from BU is a hard thing to pass up - ITE Cornell isn't a sure bet enough over BU to choose the 70k of debt when you can come out with virtually nothing from BU. Thats a pretty awesome deal...

Boston in amazing too...

As for employment prospects - I'm only a 1L - but I got the job I wanted even though I'm a median student (I REALLY don't work that hard) and a lot of other people did too. The professors are amazing, and the students are really nice/down to Earth. The school funds tons of pro bono trips, etc., the administration is really supportive.

Good luck with your decision man! Let me know if you have any specific questions....

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irie
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby irie » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:29 pm

dakatz wrote:Does anyone have any employment stats that paint a better picture? What I'm scared of is that I would be sacrificing a chance at good employment if I go for BU over Cornell.


I'm going to assume you want to work in corporate law. I could be completely wrong though, so apologies in advance if that is not the case....

The NLJ 250 Go-To Law Schools report shows the number of students that GO TO a big law firm, not COULD GO TO. However, it is a good barometer of your chances coming out of BU/Cornell in this economic climate. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

I would also look at the Leiter Reports. http://www.leiterrankings.com/

Finally... I went to school at Cornell for undergrad, and I dated someone in Boston during my first year there. I'll be the first to tell you that the 6-7 hour drive from Cornell to Boston is *not fun*, especially during the 5-6 months of winter that blankets the northeast every year. It is, distance-wise, farther than Cornell-NYC, and a lot less convenient and more expensive if you don't own a vehicle (no cheap bus services, and Ithaca airport is tiny, unreliable in bad weather, and monopolized by US Airways). Needless to say, that relationship didn't work out, but we were young and had a lot less history than you and your gf, so I won't go so far as to predict your chances.

A year ago I would've scoffed and told you to go to Cornell, increase your chances at employment after law school, forget about the 70k extra in debt and make the long commute every now and then to see your gf. But having gotten a lot closer to my gf since then, I fully appreciate the difficulty of your decision. I think that if you have your eyes set on big law, then the extra cost of Cornell should not make or break your choice. In the end it should come down to how strongly you feel about your relationship, and how comfortable you both are in trying out long-distance. Three years is a long time, even for the closest of couples. If you really think she's the one, then you should go to BU.

dakatz
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:43 pm

irie wrote:
dakatz wrote:Does anyone have any employment stats that paint a better picture? What I'm scared of is that I would be sacrificing a chance at good employment if I go for BU over Cornell.


I'm going to assume you want to work in corporate law. I could be completely wrong though, so apologies in advance if that is not the case....

The NLJ 250 Go-To Law Schools report shows the number of students that GO TO a big law firm, not COULD GO TO. However, it is a good barometer of your chances coming out of BU/Cornell in this economic climate. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

I would also look at the Leiter Reports. http://www.leiterrankings.com/

Finally... I went to school at Cornell for undergrad, and I dated someone in Boston during my first year there. I'll be the first to tell you that the 6-7 hour drive from Cornell to Boston is *not fun*, especially during the 5-6 months of winter that blankets the northeast every year. It is, distance-wise, farther than Cornell-NYC, and a lot less convenient and more expensive if you don't own a vehicle (no cheap bus services, and Ithaca airport is tiny, unreliable in bad weather, and monopolized by US Airways). Needless to say, that relationship didn't work out, but we were young and had a lot less history than you and your gf, so I won't go so far as to predict your chances.

A year ago I would've scoffed and told you to go to Cornell, increase your chances at employment after law school, forget about the 70k extra in debt and make the long commute every now and then to see your gf. But having gotten a lot closer to my gf since then, I fully appreciate the difficulty of your decision. I think that if you have your eyes set on big law, then the extra cost of Cornell should not make or break your choice. In the end it should come down to how strongly you feel about your relationship, and how comfortable you both are in trying out long-distance. Three years is a long time, even for the closest of couples. If you really think she's the one, then you should go to BU.


Hmm, those stats make it seem like the hiring prospects out of the two schools really aren't all that different. I mean, lets say hypothetically, that I am fine staying in Boston and had no problem working there (which is pretty much true). Would Cornell still be worth the difference in employment prospects?

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irie
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby irie » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:54 pm

dakatz wrote:
irie wrote:
dakatz wrote:Does anyone have any employment stats that paint a better picture? What I'm scared of is that I would be sacrificing a chance at good employment if I go for BU over Cornell.


I'm going to assume you want to work in corporate law. I could be completely wrong though, so apologies in advance if that is not the case....

The NLJ 250 Go-To Law Schools report shows the number of students that GO TO a big law firm, not COULD GO TO. However, it is a good barometer of your chances coming out of BU/Cornell in this economic climate. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

I would also look at the Leiter Reports. http://www.leiterrankings.com/

Finally... I went to school at Cornell for undergrad, and I dated someone in Boston during my first year there. I'll be the first to tell you that the 6-7 hour drive from Cornell to Boston is *not fun*, especially during the 5-6 months of winter that blankets the northeast every year. It is, distance-wise, farther than Cornell-NYC, and a lot less convenient and more expensive if you don't own a vehicle (no cheap bus services, and Ithaca airport is tiny, unreliable in bad weather, and monopolized by US Airways). Needless to say, that relationship didn't work out, but we were young and had a lot less history than you and your gf, so I won't go so far as to predict your chances.

A year ago I would've scoffed and told you to go to Cornell, increase your chances at employment after law school, forget about the 70k extra in debt and make the long commute every now and then to see your gf. But having gotten a lot closer to my gf since then, I fully appreciate the difficulty of your decision. I think that if you have your eyes set on big law, then the extra cost of Cornell should not make or break your choice. In the end it should come down to how strongly you feel about your relationship, and how comfortable you both are in trying out long-distance. Three years is a long time, even for the closest of couples. If you really think she's the one, then you should go to BU.


Hmm, those stats make it seem like the hiring prospects out of the two schools really aren't all that different. I mean, lets say hypothetically, that I am fine staying in Boston and had no problem working there (which is pretty much true). Would Cornell still be worth the difference in employment prospects?


I know that Cornell places very well in New York City, where the top law firms are traditionally dominated by grads from HLS, Columbia, and NYU. I have to believe that if Cornell can stay astride in NYC, then they should be just as strong if not stronger in a smaller market like Boston. As for BU, if you are okay with staying and building a career in Boston, then I don't think there's a huge discrepancy between the two schools. However, it will limit your options once you leave the Boston market, should you decide a few years down the line that you really want to pursue a career in, say, California, or internationally.

dakatz
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:28 pm

It really is such a tough decision, because I've never really spent much time away from my gf. We went to undergrad together, and both happen to live within 30 min of each other back home. So all school year, and all summer, I always had her there. I'm sort of afraid that, if I go to Cornell, I will spend too much time traveling, having her over, planning trips back and forth, etc, that not only will I not be able to involve myself in the Cornell community, but that my studies will take a hit. Ug, and I only have one day to decide on this. Gonna be a long night...

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jks289
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby jks289 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:14 pm

dakatz wrote:It really is such a tough decision, because I've never really spent much time away from my gf. We went to undergrad together, and both happen to live within 30 min of each other back home. So all school year, and all summer, I always had her there. I'm sort of afraid that, if I go to Cornell, I will spend too much time traveling, having her over, planning trips back and forth, etc, that not only will I not be able to involve myself in the Cornell community, but that my studies will take a hit. Ug, and I only have one day to decide on this. Gonna be a long night...



Can you honestly asses the relationship? Is this the person you intend to marry? If so, I will say I made significant sacrifices to be with my spouse and never ever regretted those choices. I know had I put my career first our relationship may not have survived. But if our relationship hadn't worked out, I might feel differently. This is a tough choice, but I think you have to go with your gut. It sounds like you want BU, but feel like Cornell is too good to pass up. If that is the case I think BU is the right choice, and one you won't regret. But if your interest in Cornell is more organic to the school itself (the culture, location, faculty, whatever) then you need to ask yourself hard questions about your priorities and what you think your relationship can handle. I am in a great marriage with a really supportive spouse, but I am not a believer in the "if it is meant to be it will be" school of thought. For us it took sacrifice and choosing to put our relationship first over and over again. The good news is, there isn't a wrong choice here. You have two great schools in front of you, and it sounds like you have a supportive partner. You will find a way to make things work. Good luck.

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bslno8
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby bslno8 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:50 pm

If I were you though, I would pick BU.
I am thinking about going to BU law and my husband will be going to Princeton for a PhD. Even though I know we will be able to handle it because our relationship is strong, I would never pass up a chance like the one you have for staying together (and having little debt)!

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Allyn
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby Allyn » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:21 pm

I'm not you, and I can't make the decision for you obviously, but I'm in a slightly similar situation and I'm most likely taking the full-tuition scholarship at BU and never looking back.

dakatz
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby dakatz » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:44 pm

I actually talked to a Cornell alum last night for awhile. She said she was dating someone from Boston (to whom she is now married) during her 1L year. She said she made the 6 hour trip pretty much every 2 weeks, even though it hurt her studies a bit. She said that, since everyone was pretty much guaranteed a good job (ah the wonders of graduating in 2005) that she could finish median and not think twice. I feel like the situation is much different today, and that if I'm worrying about planning trips and visits, it may hurt me.

Is it really as mutually exclusive as people make it out to be when it comes to working in a firm? i.e. is it really either you make a huge biglaw salary, or else you start at 50K in a small firm for everyone outside of that top third at BU? Is that really how it is?

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John J. Rambo, Esq.
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby John J. Rambo, Esq. » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:47 pm

It's a very hard decision. I'm pulling for you to choose BU for purely selfish reasons. I don't think I can add anything to this thread that hasn't been said. Except: Allyn, sweet 'tar.

Applicant2010
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby Applicant2010 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:52 pm

pollaclc wrote:
dakatz wrote: Plus BU would leave me with very little debt, close to zero in fact. I have a whole network of contacts and friends in the city. I guess it is more of the fact that my gf will be there that is creating this dilemma.
Cornell would cost me about 70K more


contacts & networking = huge part of getting a job. dont let your gf pressure you into boston, though. it has to be because you want it.


This.

Plus Boston >>>>>> Ithaca

Plus 70K more + 10 yr repayment interest = 100K more

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Cupidity
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby Cupidity » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:52 pm

Distance isn't always a horrible thing. I've been in a long term relationship for a few years now throughout undergrad, as long as you are sure that you are interested in keeping it long term, the distance isn't a killer--though you may need to develope phone conversation skills. The debt would be the biggest concern for me, keep in mind its the number one cause of divorce!

woeisme
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:57 pm

dakatz wrote:Does anyone have any employment stats that paint a better picture? What I'm scared of is that I would be sacrificing a chance at good employment if I go for BU over Cornell.


You will be. I mean that's just how it works. It's not really in dispute that Cornell will give you more and better options. But none of that means you can't/won't get a good job out of BU too.

Have you visited both? Can you see yourself at both? If it were me I'd pick Cornell (and, in fact, did). I'd recommend visiting both schools. Talk to your girlfriend about it. How does she feel about you two making trips back and forth? Plenty of people do it. What's your gut tell you?

woeisme
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby woeisme » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:02 am

dakatz wrote:
irie wrote:
dakatz wrote:Does anyone have any employment stats that paint a better picture? What I'm scared of is that I would be sacrificing a chance at good employment if I go for BU over Cornell.


I'm going to assume you want to work in corporate law. I could be completely wrong though, so apologies in advance if that is not the case....

The NLJ 250 Go-To Law Schools report shows the number of students that GO TO a big law firm, not COULD GO TO. However, it is a good barometer of your chances coming out of BU/Cornell in this economic climate. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

I would also look at the Leiter Reports. http://www.leiterrankings.com/

Finally... I went to school at Cornell for undergrad, and I dated someone in Boston during my first year there. I'll be the first to tell you that the 6-7 hour drive from Cornell to Boston is *not fun*, especially during the 5-6 months of winter that blankets the northeast every year. It is, distance-wise, farther than Cornell-NYC, and a lot less convenient and more expensive if you don't own a vehicle (no cheap bus services, and Ithaca airport is tiny, unreliable in bad weather, and monopolized by US Airways). Needless to say, that relationship didn't work out, but we were young and had a lot less history than you and your gf, so I won't go so far as to predict your chances.

A year ago I would've scoffed and told you to go to Cornell, increase your chances at employment after law school, forget about the 70k extra in debt and make the long commute every now and then to see your gf. But having gotten a lot closer to my gf since then, I fully appreciate the difficulty of your decision. I think that if you have your eyes set on big law, then the extra cost of Cornell should not make or break your choice. In the end it should come down to how strongly you feel about your relationship, and how comfortable you both are in trying out long-distance. Three years is a long time, even for the closest of couples. If you really think she's the one, then you should go to BU.


Hmm, those stats make it seem like the hiring prospects out of the two schools really aren't all that different. I mean, lets say hypothetically, that I am fine staying in Boston and had no problem working there (which is pretty much true). Would Cornell still be worth the difference in employment prospects?


Do you care about prestige? In this situation, yes, Cornell will still get you more prestigious work. But you're right that if you're focusing solely on Boston, then the difference is less substantial than it would be with basically any other city.

dakatz
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby dakatz » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:03 am

Applicant2010 wrote:
pollaclc wrote:
dakatz wrote: Plus BU would leave me with very little debt, close to zero in fact. I have a whole network of contacts and friends in the city. I guess it is more of the fact that my gf will be there that is creating this dilemma.
Cornell would cost me about 70K more


contacts & networking = huge part of getting a job. dont let your gf pressure you into boston, though. it has to be because you want it.


This.

Plus Boston >>>>>> Ithaca

Plus 70K more + 10 yr repayment interest = 100K more


I majored in hospitality administration, and would love to one day do legal work, perhaps real estate law, for a large hotel company. Being at BU would allow me to stay in close contact with my professors (who know pretty much every hotel insider in the city of Boston, and even put me in touch with the President of Marriott). So I feel like this would help set me on that trajectory. I guess this is a plus to consider as well.

woeisme
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby woeisme » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:06 am

jks289 wrote:
dakatz wrote:It really is such a tough decision, because I've never really spent much time away from my gf. We went to undergrad together, and both happen to live within 30 min of each other back home. So all school year, and all summer, I always had her there. I'm sort of afraid that, if I go to Cornell, I will spend too much time traveling, having her over, planning trips back and forth, etc, that not only will I not be able to involve myself in the Cornell community, but that my studies will take a hit. Ug, and I only have one day to decide on this. Gonna be a long night...



Can you honestly asses the relationship? Is this the person you intend to marry? If so, I will say I made significant sacrifices to be with my spouse and never ever regretted those choices. I know had I put my career first our relationship may not have survived. But if our relationship hadn't worked out, I might feel differently. This is a tough choice, but I think you have to go with your gut. It sounds like you want BU, but feel like Cornell is too good to pass up. If that is the case I think BU is the right choice, and one you won't regret. But if your interest in Cornell is more organic to the school itself (the culture, location, faculty, whatever) then you need to ask yourself hard questions about your priorities and what you think your relationship can handle. I am in a great marriage with a really supportive spouse, but I am not a believer in the "if it is meant to be it will be" school of thought. For us it took sacrifice and choosing to put our relationship first over and over again. The good news is, there isn't a wrong choice here. You have two great schools in front of you, and it sounds like you have a supportive partner. You will find a way to make things work. Good luck.


This is crazy. I'm at Cornell right now and plenty of people are in long distance relationships. Why is everyone making it seem like it's such a feat? If you really love the person, it works.

woeisme
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Re: BU vs. Cornell: The Final Round

Postby woeisme » Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:10 am

dakatz wrote:
Applicant2010 wrote:
pollaclc wrote:
dakatz wrote: Plus BU would leave me with very little debt, close to zero in fact. I have a whole network of contacts and friends in the city. I guess it is more of the fact that my gf will be there that is creating this dilemma.
Cornell would cost me about 70K more


contacts & networking = huge part of getting a job. dont let your gf pressure you into boston, though. it has to be because you want it.


This.

Plus Boston >>>>>> Ithaca

Plus 70K more + 10 yr repayment interest = 100K more


I majored in hospitality administration, and would love to one day do legal work, perhaps real estate law, for a large hotel company. Being at BU would allow me to stay in close contact with my professors (who know pretty much every hotel insider in the city of Boston, and even put me in touch with the President of Marriott). So I feel like this would help set me on that trajectory. I guess this is a plus to consider as well.


Except Cornell has a fabulous, renowned hotel school and always a pretty good real estate program. With phenomenal professors and opportunities for cross-enrollment.

(Just thought I'd present both sides) 8) :lol:




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